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Old 04-03-2013, 12:18 PM   #426
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Like I said we have posters that ignore what Ayers did/can do at RDE and simply focus on what he didn't do at LDE/3-4 DE.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:18 PM   #427
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Let's see I have already seen posters say that losing Doom cost us a chance at the SB so I don't see how I am that far off.

Also a number of good posters have proven that Ayers in limited snaps, playing for Doom has been more than effective at RDE. Yet that gets blown off like it's a fluke.
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpos...1&postcount=28

Some of us can live with Ayers and a rookie DE over Doom because we know that the O will be much better with Welker not because of scoring either. NE averaged 3.5 more first downs per game then Denver with Welker. Just think what could happen when you give the most accurate slot throwing QB the best slot WR in the NFL. Clock chewing mode for Denver just got 100 times easier.
That's a very limited picture on ayers. Over his entire college/pro career I haven't seen much. He had a hard time even playing into the starting lineup in college. And from the looks of his pro career it's more of the same. Why did JDR drop him in favor of hunter? I just don't see him keeping that job. There's a great chance he won't even win the job. If he can step up consistently this year then ill admit I was wrong about him. If not, he's just another McD bust.

People have no problem degrading dumervils value, while the same time giving a pass to a player who hasn't lived up to the value at where he was drafted.

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Old 04-03-2013, 12:21 PM   #428
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That's a very limited picture on ayers. Over his entire college/pro career I haven't seen much. He had a hard time even playing into the starting lineup in college. And from the looks of his pro career it's more of the same. Why did JDR bench him in favor of hunter? I just don't see him keeping that job. There's a great chance he won't even win the job. If he can step up consistently this year then ill admit I was wrong about him. If not, he's just another McD bust.
Same ****. Focus on his production from LDE and the past (3-4) not what he did filling in for the player he is REPLACING.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:24 PM   #429
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Same ****. Focus on his production from LDE and the past (3-4) not what he did filling in for the player he is REPLACING.
I'm sorry but when examining a players future production I look to his past production as a foundation.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:26 PM   #430
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I'm sorry but when examining a players future production I look to his past production as a foundation.
Even when they switch positions?
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:27 PM   #431
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Same ****. Focus on his production from LDE and the past (3-4) not what he did filling in for the player he is REPLACING.
OK, why don't we at least look at the entire season of him at RDE, and not just cherry pick the games he did the best in? I know why, because it's not very impressive!

Extrapolating Ayers' season stats over Doom's snap count:

6 sacks, 20 tackles. Yippee.

And if you think stats like that keep constant while asking a player to play that much more, you are very mistaken. In reality he would have been much worse.

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Old 04-03-2013, 12:34 PM   #432
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Even when they switch positions?
A position change doesn't wipe out a players past. If that was the case college players drafted by teams who put them at a new position wouldn't get picked because of their college production? He could benefit and step up with a change. Or he could remain the same player he's always been. Didnt he change positions in college and even play DT? Maybe the JDR demotion has me a bit jaded of the guy. I just see production coming from someone other than ayers.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:41 PM   #433
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A position change doesn't wipe out a players past. If that was the case college players drafted by teams who put them at a new position wouldn't get picked because of their college production? He could benefit and step up with a change. Or he could remain the same player he's always been. Didnt he change positions in college and even play DT? Maybe the JDR demotion has me a bit jaded of the guy. I just see production coming from someone other than ayers.
I don't disagree with you entirely, but we drafted Ayers and immediately played him out of position based on his college scheme and position.

Just as, Doom might thrive in his natural position in Baltimore...and yes, I realize he did pretty damn well here in a scheme that didn't always suit him the best but we are talking about a guy that is a freak with what he can do rushing the passer.

Some players are just naturally talented and can play in any scheme, some are suited for the scheme and seem to thrive in the right one. Ayers isn't Doom, nobody can argue that...but he's not been terrible either with all things considered.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:49 PM   #434
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I don't disagree with you entirely, but we drafted Ayers and immediately played him out of position based on his college scheme and position.

Just as, Doom might thrive in his natural position in Baltimore...and yes, I realize he did pretty damn well here in a scheme that didn't always suit him the best but we are talking about a guy that is a freak with what he can do rushing the passer.

Some players are just naturally talented and can play in any scheme, some are suited for the scheme and seem to thrive in the right one. Ayers isn't Doom, nobody can argue that...but he's not been terrible either with all things considered.

And if that's the case ill admit im wrong about him. I just don't see the FO settling with ayers. And when competition for the position is hashed out during the preseason IMO it will be a different player left standing when the dust settles.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:49 PM   #435
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A position change doesn't wipe out a players past. If that was the case college players drafted by teams who put them at a new position wouldn't get picked because of their college production? He could benefit and step up with a change. Or he could remain the same player he's always been. Didnt he change positions in college and even play DT? Maybe the JDR demotion has me a bit jaded of the guy. I just see production coming from someone other than ayers.
So Paul Kruger playing DE in a 3-4, which is out of position for him coming out of college goes from 0 sacks and 1 sack out of position. 5.5 sacks and 9 sacks when he was playing in his natural position. The 9 sacks came when he was finally moved into more of a starting role. Was that something that could have been predicted?

Did you ever stop and think maybe JDR demoted Ayers because he wasn't a good enough fit at LDE and a better fit for RDE in the scheme JDR wants to run?
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:04 PM   #436
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Did you ever stop and think maybe JDR demoted Ayers because he wasn't a good enough fit at LDE and a better fit for RDE in the scheme JDR wants to run?
Or he demoted him cause he's underwhelming at whatever position he's at. Could've been mirroring the thought of his college coaches too. We saw him struggle at outside linebacker. Then moved to DE in 2011 and didnt show much either. Maybe 3 times a charm? Or is it 4 since he did see a little time at DT too
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:10 PM   #437
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Or he demoted him cause he's underwhelming at whatever position he's at. Could've been mirroring the thought of his college coaches too. We saw him struggle at outside linebacker. Then moved to LDE in 2011 and didnt show much either. Maybe 3 times a charm? Or is it 4 since he did see a little time at DT too
Good ****ing lord. I give up, thanks for proving my point yet again.
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:13 PM   #438
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Sack totals by year, college and NFL:
1
1
4
3
0
1.5
3
2

But this year, he'll be great!
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:14 PM   #439
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Good ****ing lord. I give up, thanks for proving my point yet again.
No problem. Thanks for reinforcing mine. Move him to RDE and suddenly he's an all pro HOFer and the complete opposite of what he's been his entire football career! Wish it were that easy.

Maybe we should move Moreno to FB and Mays to safety?

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Old 04-03-2013, 01:18 PM   #440
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No problem. Thanks for reinforcing mine.
You are right Denver is ****ed without Doom. He can't be replaced! Ayers blows, rookies suck! Legion of Doom unite!!!!!!!!! Why Elway why!
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:24 PM   #441
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No problem. Thanks for reinforcing mine. Move him to RDE and suddenly he's an all pro HOFer and the complete opposite of what he's been his entire football career! Wish it were that easy.

Maybe we should move Moreno to FB and Mays to safety?
Who the **** suggested that he would have to do that for him to be a solid replacement? Not a single person said he would come in and get 10 plus sacks.

What is your plan seriously (other then Denver is ****ed). I would love to hear it. Trade for Doom?
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:24 PM   #442
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So Paul Kruger playing DE in a 3-4, which is out of position for him coming out of college goes from 0 sacks and 1 sack out of position. 5.5 sacks and 9 sacks when he was playing in his natural position. The 9 sacks came when he was finally moved into more of a starting role. Was that something that could have been predicted?

Did you ever stop and think maybe JDR demoted Ayers because he wasn't a good enough fit at LDE and a better fit for RDE in the scheme JDR wants to run?
You either have it as a pass rusher or you don't. Doom proved he could be productive from the OLB and DE. Ayers has shown nothing, other than people bashing him for being a bust around this time right here last year. All of the sudden Doom is out and the same ones that called Ayers start believing he going to start producing. Riiiiiiiight! Dude has done crap, been put on different positions to try and produce and still failed. He even lost his job to Wolfe (a Rookie) and Hunter in camp. The dude just can't close the deal on sacking the QB.

If it was because he was out of position then we would have at least have seen some production. That has not been the case. If changing someone from position or side of the formation would fix their inability to produce, the colossal draft bust that the Jets picked a few years ago (can't even remember his name) would have shown that improvement. The dude was moved all over the defense by Ryan and still wasn't able to produce. He was out of that team 3 or 4 year later and out of the NFL more than likely.

You either have it to pass the rusher or you don't. That's why they are so difficult to find. Ayers just can't get to the QB. End of story.
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:24 PM   #443
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You are right Denver is ****ed without Doom. He can't be replaced! Ayers blows, rookies suck! Legion of Doom unite!!!!!!!!! Why Elway why!
As there's your desperation I lost post.

I haven't seen one post from anyone stating we will finish last in the west because ayers is starting in place of doom. But keep preaching that angle though.

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Old 04-03-2013, 01:26 PM   #444
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As there's your desperation I lost post.
Again I'm on your side. We can't replace Doom.
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:31 PM   #445
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Again I'm on your side. We can't replace Doom.
This arguement isn't about not being able to replace doom. It's about ayers sucking or not.
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:33 PM   #446
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This arguement isn't about not being able to replace doom. It's about ayers sucking or not.
Ayers sucked at OLB, 3-4 DE, LDE and I'm sure he will at RDE now what do we do? Let's hear your idea.
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:36 PM   #447
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I don't disagree with you entirely, but we drafted Ayers and immediately played him out of position based on his college scheme and position.

Just as, Doom might thrive in his natural position in Baltimore...and yes, I realize he did pretty damn well here in a scheme that didn't always suit him the best but we are talking about a guy that is a freak with what he can do rushing the passer.

Some players are just naturally talented and can play in any scheme, some are suited for the scheme and seem to thrive in the right one. Ayers isn't Doom, nobody can argue that...but he's not been terrible either with all things considered.
h... Doom's natural position has always been DE. He played DE in Louisville and raped the competition. People just assume his natural position is OLB because he has the body type for the position and had a career year playing it. But make no mistake, his natural position will always be DE.

Ayers is not terrible... at defending the run. But he has been terrible at sacking the QB. You can dance around that all you want, but that wont change. Ayers will be the solid run defender on 1st and 2nd down, but expecting him to even come close to producing his career sacks in the next season is lunacy.

Will he be able, I am not hopeful. Do I want him to succeed? Sure!!! That would be one less spot to invest a draft pick on. Based on our FO urgency to sign a FA DE after losing Hunter and Doom, tells me we are going to invest one of our first 2 picks on a headhunter.

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Old 04-03-2013, 01:39 PM   #448
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Ayers sucked at OLB, 3-4 DE, LDE and I'm sure he will at RDE now what do we do? Let's hear your idea.
Draft a competent replacement. There is nothing more we can do up to this point. Freeney can go and suck it for all I care. Dude is more worried about getting paid at 33 than getting on a quality team. Old Abe is just that... old and overrated in a scheme Mike Nolan protected him.
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:40 PM   #449
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Draft a competent replacement. There is nothing more we can do up to this point. Freeney can go and suck it for all I care. Dude is more worried about getting paid at 33 than getting on a quality team. Old Abe is just that... old and overrated in a scheme Mike Nolan protected him.
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I guarantee neither of those players get 60+ 8+ their rookie year. No way. Ain't gonna happen. Sorry. maybe down the road they could but not in the present. Manning isnt going to be here down the road though. Doesnt have time to wait for players to develop. It's time to face the fact we are going to be weaker at dumervils position the next year or 2. Just the way it is with the FA market being weak at that position.
Won't work in Drunken's mind rookies are not the answer. Next idea.
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:42 PM   #450
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Who the **** suggested that he would have to do that for him to be a solid replacement? Not a single person said he would come in and get 10 plus sacks.

What is your plan seriously (other then Denver is ****ed). I would love to hear it. Trade for Doom?
Who the **** suggested we will suck and not make the playoffs because of doom being gone?
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