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Old 04-02-2013, 07:33 AM   #301
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TIL that the RDE is the most important position of any defense.

Any other tidbits price?
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:57 AM   #302
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Sure would be nice if we got a rookie to replace Doom that completely made us forget about him.
Even if it happens, the Broncos will spend a draft pick to be where they were before the draft. The team already had a RDE (and the 6 draft picks). Now the best case scenario is a RDE and 5 draft picks. The need caused by the loss of Dumervil will prevent the team from gettting better at some other position.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:05 AM   #303
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Even if it happens, the Broncos will spend a draft pick to be where they were before the draft. The team already had a RDE (and the 6 draft picks). Now the best case scenario is a RDE and 5 draft picks. The need caused by the loss of Dumervil will prevent the team from gettting better at some other position.
That's circumstantial too the round the player is selected and the rest of the draft right..?

On defense a rookie MIGHT start at S, MLB, or RDE..
But if it's a situational pass rusher drafted in the second or third, is it really preventing the team from getting better?

On offense a rookie MIGHT start at.......... RB, TE?

In my opinion there doesn't appear to be many gapping holes where a rookie could start. And who's to say if we went DE, RB, S with the first three picks, that these players couldn't be starters? Even though we took a DE early in this scenario.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:03 AM   #304
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That's funny bro, didn't I just name drop him in this thread!

And you hit me with his pro day stats.. After I told price we don't have to trade up for Moore and that the draft is deep with pass rushers..
FYI....Self promotion is really annoying and counter productive when used repeatedly.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:27 AM   #305
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FYI....Self promotion is really annoying and counter productive when used repeatedly.
Alright, alright.. I get it..

It's not like all I have contributed is self promotion..
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:29 AM   #306
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Alright, alright.. I get it..

It's not like all I have contributed is self promotion..
I completely agree. You have great insight and knowledge on a variety of topics. Posters will see and recognize that without your aid.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:32 AM   #307
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I completely agree. You have great insight and knowledge on a variety of topics. Posters will see and recognize that without your aid.
Thank you. Maybe it's time to unleash my Offseason Plan 2.0.. With how we can replace Doom and throw some different ideas out there. It's getting old arguing with Price about how losing Doom cost us a championship.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:35 AM   #308
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Thank you. Maybe it's time to unleash my Offseason Plan 2.0.. With how we can replace Doom and throw some different ideas out there. It's getting old arguing with Price about how losing Doom cost us a championship.
Unleash it. It's getting kind of dead around here before the draft anyway.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:35 AM   #309
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I think we all can agree that price is a wack job and is completely off his rocker in suggesting that a) RDE is the most important position on defense and b) we can get a pass rushing RDE in just about any round of this draft.

The fact that we have interviewed Simon and the fact that he pretty much plays the same type of hybrid DE that we play look like he is the logical choice. Leaving Denver free to take the best RB, MLB, or Safety on the board in the first round.

Last edited by DBroncos4life; 04-02-2013 at 11:54 AM..
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:46 AM   #310
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I think we all can agree that price is a wack job and is completely off his rocker in suggesting that a) RDE is not the most important position on defense and b) we can get a pass rushing RDE in just about any round of this draft.

The fact that we have interviewed Simon and the fact that he pretty much plays the same type of hybrid DE that we play look like he is the logical choice. Leaving Denver free to take the best RB, MLB, or Safety on the board in the first round.
?

Price said that RDE was the most important position on D. Also, I think it's clear that replacing a guy who has had more than 9 sacks all of the last 3 seasons he has played in the NFL with a guy who has never had more than 9 sacks in a season in college is a pretty big downgrade.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:59 AM   #311
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I corrected what I said and college stats. What a failure of a way to judge a player.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:05 PM   #312
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I corrected what I said and college stats. What a failure of a way to judge a player.
What do you use to judge prospects?

What evidence do you have regarding the validity of stats versus whatever you prefer?
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:37 PM   #313
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What do you use to judge prospects?

What evidence do you have regarding the validity of stats versus whatever you prefer?
Combo of things not just stats. Stats, combine, how said player was schemed, how they played against NFL level talent, etc...

What evidence do I have to not just use college stats to judge a player coming in to the NFL? Logic? Really I feel if you have to ask that question it boils down to two things. A) you are just going to stay butt hurt about Doom and you are just going to continue to cry like a little b**** or B) you have no knowledge about the history college super stars flat out flopping in the NFL.

Your logic about NFL vs College stats means that Denver down graded when they drafted Doom because at the time he didn't have a single NFL sack while the guy he replaced did. I mean Denver did let Trevor Pryce go the off-season we drafted Doom.

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Old 04-02-2013, 12:53 PM   #314
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Combo of things not just stats. Stats, combine, how said player was schemed, how they played against NFL level talent, etc...

What evidence do I have to not just use college stats to judge a player coming in to the NFL? Logic? Really I feel if you have to ask that question it boils down to two things. A) you are just going to stay butt hurt about Doom and you are just going to continue to troll or B) you have no knowledge about the history college super stars flat out flopping in the NFL.

Your logic about NFL vs College stats means that Denver down graded when they drafted Doom because at the time he didn't have a single NFL sack while the guy he replaced did. I mean Denver did let Trevor Pryce go the off-season we drafted Doom.
Wow.

First, having a different opinion is not trolling. If you don't like hearing opinions that differ from yours, perhaps you are in the wrong place.

Second, you first referred to college stats as a "failure of a way to judge a player." Now you are talking about not just using stats, but using it in combination with other things. Which is it? A failure, or a useful set of data, along with other things?

Third, your Pryce/Doom = Doom/anyone logic is absurd, I hope you know why and you don't need me to explain it.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:57 PM   #315
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That's circumstantial too the round the player is selected and the rest of the draft right..?

On defense a rookie MIGHT start at S, MLB, or RDE..
But if it's a situational pass rusher drafted in the second or third, is it really preventing the team from getting better?

On offense a rookie MIGHT start at.......... RB, TE?

In my opinion there doesn't appear to be many gapping holes where a rookie could start. And who's to say if we went DE, RB, S with the first three picks, that these players couldn't be starters? Even though we took a DE early in this scenario.
A rookie could also start at DT. The Broncos signed Knighton, but he became a backup in Jacksonville and has been too inconsistent to be entrenched as a starter at this point. I hope he gets some serious competition during camp. If the Broncos leave the draft without a DT and start having problems there, Justin Bannan might be the emergency option.

EDIT: CB could be another possibility. It depends on the plans for DRC. With $5 million guaranteed, it looks like his roster spot it safe, but it does not mean he will be a starter. DRC has a lot of talent, but he does not always play hard. I expect the Broncos to grind DRC during camp and try to fix his inconsistency. They want to keep Chris Harris inside (nickel) as much as possible. If the Broncos draft a CB and DRC fails to respond to hard coaching, we could have a rookie starting as the #2 CB.

Last edited by R-Mac; 04-02-2013 at 01:13 PM..
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:44 PM   #316
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Knighton became a backup because of the change in defensive scheme, not because of his play. While JDR was there he played a two gap scheme and last year it was more of a one gap penetrating scheme. JDR knows what kind of player he is and I have a hard time believing he is going to ask him to play the 3-tech here in Denver.
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:56 PM   #317
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Ha

Instead of responding, you just edit your post?

Anyway, I didn't watch Simon in college, so here's what I know about him:

Undersized for a DE
Short arms
Mediocre passrushing production
Bulked up to the point that his arms don't move correctly
Put up mediocre (you say "top ten," I say "only 21 DEs participated at the combine") numbers, not even at the combine, but at his personal workout.
Crazy workout warrior who will try really hard, but doesn't have much in the way of talent
Draws comparisons to... Allen Bailey?

That is not what I want at RDE.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:02 PM   #318
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I think the Broncos are interested in Sio (forgot last name) as a potential Doom replacement? He's an OLB, he's not real big per say, but they probably like his upside to get around the corner on a speed rush.

I like Corey Lemonier as an edge rusher, from what I've seen of him he's got the speed and power to be effective, but I'm no scout and this is why Elway makes the big money and I get to throw tantrums when the draft doesn't go my way...
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:20 PM   #319
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Guys I don't think we're asking the right question here. Its not what we should expect out of the DT in the 4-3 or 3-4 or 4-3 hybrid. Its what we should expect out of the DT in a JDR defence.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:26 PM   #320
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I think the Broncos are interested in Sio (forgot last name) as a potential Doom replacement? He's an OLB, he's not real big per say, but they probably like his upside to get around the corner on a speed rush.

I like Corey Lemonier as an edge rusher, from what I've seen of him he's got the speed and power to be effective, but I'm no scout and this is why Elway makes the big money and I get to throw tantrums when the draft doesn't go my way...
I'm eh on Lemonier. Talent-wise, he looks the part. On one play he looks strong and quick, then the next six he runs himself out of the play. He seems wildly inconsistent, but talent is there.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:46 PM   #321
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Guys I don't think we're asking the right question here. Its not what we should expect out of the DT in the 4-3 or 3-4 or 4-3 hybrid. Its what we should expect out of the DT in a JDR defence.
Both two gap, as I have tried to explain to Price.. He wants gap integrity of a basic 4-3, with Wolfe as an UT.. But that's not our scheme on base downs.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:54 PM   #322
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A rookie could also start at DT. The Broncos signed Knighton, but he became a backup in Jacksonville and has been too inconsistent to be entrenched as a starter at this point. I hope he gets some serious competition during camp. If the Broncos leave the draft without a DT and start having problems there, Justin Bannan might be the emergency option.

EDIT: CB could be another possibility. It depends on the plans for DRC. With $5 million guaranteed, it looks like his roster spot it safe, but it does not mean he will be a starter. DRC has a lot of talent, but he does not always play hard. I expect the Broncos to grind DRC during camp and try to fix his inconsistency. They want to keep Chris Harris inside (nickel) as much as possible. If the Broncos draft a CB and DRC fails to respond to hard coaching, we could have a rookie starting as the #2 CB.
In our scheme, I don't think a rookie DT starts and beats out Knighton/Vickerson. Keep in mind we two gap with all three of our interior players. With Vickerson being the more athletic of the two. Frankly I am excited about an interior DLine of Vickerson, Knighton, Wolfe. But I think a later round DT to groom and develop would be better value, at least in our scheme.

As far as CB is concerned, I agree with your thoughts about DRC's inconsistency. I have read that his lack of focus could have been because he was on a losing team.. Hopefully he is pushed, and I wouldn't rule out another corner, but someone to groom as Champs successor.. It all depends how the board falls..

Oh and Knighton was benched because Mel Tucker wanted him to offer more in terms of pass rush, and wanted him much lighter. He wasn't a great scheme fit..
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:57 PM   #323
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Ha

Instead of responding, you just edit your post?

Anyway, I didn't watch Simon in college, so here's what I know about him:

Undersized for a DE
Short arms
Mediocre passrushing production
Bulked up to the point that his arms don't move correctly
Put up mediocre (you say "top ten," I say "only 21 DEs participated at the combine") numbers, not even at the combine, but at his personal workout.
Crazy workout warrior who will try really hard, but doesn't have much in the way of talent
Draws comparisons to... Allen Bailey?

That is not what I want at RDE.
Where do you propose pass rushers come from if not in college? They must grow on trees.. You must agree that losing Doom cost us a chance at a Super Bowl.
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:00 PM   #324
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Knighton became a backup because of the change in defensive scheme, not because of his play. While JDR was there he played a two gap scheme and last year it was more of a one gap penetrating scheme. JDR knows what kind of player he is and I have a hard time believing he is going to ask him to play the 3-tech here in Denver.
You must be one of those guys who's quiet, but just drops the necessary wisdom when necessary and totally unexpected. Much like Ben Stillers father in Along Came Polly.

This is absolutely correct. He was asked to offer more in terms of pass rush and he had to adjust and wasn't a great scheme fit!
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:04 PM   #325
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Where do you propose pass rushers come from if not in college? They must grow on trees.. You must agree that losing Doom cost us a chance at a Super Bowl.
Not only that he knocks Simon for being under sized and having short arms yet Simon is bigger and has longer arms then Doom.

So let's say Jarvis Jones is there at 28 does Denver draft him and have him replace Ayers on pass rushing downs? I mean going by college stats 13.5 sacks followed by 14.5 sacks. He should be a beast. Then you factor in how he draws comparison to Von Miller it should be a slam dunk of a pick.
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