The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Jibba Jabba > War, Religion and Politics Thread
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Poll: Does an armed society deter assault and murder?
Be advised that this is a public poll: other users can see the choice(s) you selected.
Poll Options
Does an armed society deter assault and murder?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-27-2013, 05:46 PM   #176
Dr. Broncenstein
Nacho Nacho Fan
 
Dr. Broncenstein's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Sterile Fields
Posts: 13,443

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Dookie Nacho
Default



The convenient thing about a disarmed populace is that you can dispose of them in a centralized location, without all the hassles of return fire.
Dr. Broncenstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 05:46 PM   #177
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fedaykin View Post

So one last time vapid one: do you know what 'well regulated' means in the context of the 2nd amendment?
We can begin to deduce what well-regulated meant from Alexander Hamilton's words in Federalist Paper No. 29:

The project of disciplining all the militia of the United States is as futile as it would be injurious if it were capable of being carried into execution. A tolerable expertness in military movements is a business that requires time and practice. It is not a day, nor a week nor even a month, that will suffice for the attainment of it. To oblige the great body of the yeomanry and of the other classes of the citizens to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people and a serious public inconvenience and loss.
--- The Federalist Papers, No. 29.

Hamilton indicates a well-regulated militia is a state of preparedness obtained after rigorous and persistent training. Note the use of 'disciplining' which indicates discipline could be synonymous with well-trained.

This quote from the Journals of the Continental Congress, 1774-1789 also conveys the meaning of well regulated:

Resolved , That this appointment be conferred on experienced and vigilant general officers, who are acquainted with whatever relates to the general economy, maneouvres and discipline of a well regulated army.
--- Saturday, December 13, 1777.

In the passage that follows, do you think the U.S. government was concerned because the Creek Indians' tribal regulations were superior to those of the Wabash or was it because they represented a better trained and disciplined fighting force?

"That the strength of the Wabash Indians who were principally the object of the resolve of the 21st of July 1787, and the strength of the Creek Indians is very different. That the said Creeks are not only greatly superior in numbers but are more united, better regulated, and headed by a man whose talents appear to have fixed him in their confidence. That from the view of the object your Secretary has been able to take he conceives that the only effectual mode of acting against the said Creeks in case they should persist in their hostilities would be by making an invasion of their country with a powerful body of well regulated troops always ready to combat and able to defeat any combination of force the said Creeks could oppose and to destroy their towns and provisions."

I am unacquainted with the extent of your works, and consequently ignorant of the number or men necessary to man them. If your present numbers should be insufficient for that purpose, I would then by all means advise your making up the deficiency out of the best regulated militia that can be got.
--- George Washington (The Writings of George Washington, pp. 503-4, (G.P. Putnam & Sons, pub.)(1889))
--- Saturday, December 13, 1777.

The above quote is clearly not a request for a militia with the best set of regulations....This brief textual analysis also suggests "to put in good order" is the correct interpretation of well regulated, signifying a well disciplined, trained, and functioning militia.

And finally, when regulated is used as an adjective, its meaning varies depending on the noun its modifying and of course the context. For example: well regulated liberty (properly controlled), regulated rifle (adjusted for accuracy), and regulated commerce (governed by regulations) all express a different meaning for regulated. This is by no means unusual, just as the word, bear, conveys a different meaning depending on the word it modifies: bearing arms, bearing fruit, or bearing gifts.

I think that the meaning of the word regulated had nothing to do with rules or limits when the 2nd amendment was written.....and the words above support my belief.
errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 05:50 PM   #178
DenverBrit
Just hanging out.
 
DenverBrit's Avatar
 
Got a breath mint??

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver
Posts: 12,304

Adopt-a-Bronco:
The Team
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by errand View Post
why would you leave Great Britain which is such a utopia of safety with their gun control laws for the alleged wild wild west of a shoot 'em up ok corral?
Why are you asking such a stupid question?

Because I suggested the Founders were thinking more along the lines of the Swiss model when they wrote "A well regulated Militia"?

Are you so threatened by a simple suggestion?

Let me ask you a question: What was the inspiration for the 2nd amendment?
DenverBrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 05:52 PM   #179
W*GS
Ring of Famer
 
W*GS's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 20,739
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by errand View Post
This brief textual analysis also suggests "to put in good order" is the correct interpretation of well regulated, signifying a well disciplined, trained, and functioning militia.
Does the US have such an entity?
W*GS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 06:16 PM   #180
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 18,627
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by errand View Post
Nobody said Hitler's rise to power was aided by gun control laws...Dr. Broncenstein was illustrating what can happen once people are disarmed...
Educate thyself. Even to the extent what you're saying is true, this is not remotely what's happening in this country despite what the fear mongering right-wing media is suggesting.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013...in-gun-control

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/stop..._about_hitler/
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 06:19 PM   #181
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fedaykin View Post
What are you implying happened? What holes?
Well, let's see....I personally don't know what happened as I wasn't there...however I've watched and read of many oddities and have come to the conclusion that this story isn't making any sense.

The official story is that Adam Lanza for whatever reason snapped, and murdered his mother, stole her guns and car, drove to the school, shot his way in and murdered 20 kids and 6 adults with an AR-15....that he was a lone wolf.

however there have been conflicting eyewitness accounts

[] reports from official sources (media's words, not mine) that the day prior Lanza was involved in a confrontation at the school, then later these same "offical" reports were denied.

[] a website that tracks such things stating that the SSDI (Social Security Death Index) shows Adam Lanza died the day before in New Hampshire

[] police communications saying they were looking for a purple van with suspects dressed as nuns

[] video of police chasing a suspect into woods, arresting him, eyewitness reports of the arrest but no news on who he was or what he was doing running away from the school

[]eyewitness testimony that they saw two other people in handcuffs,

[]police radio communications stating they found shotguns and rifles...

[]the alleged car he stole from his mother is registered to a career criminal, not his mom....

[]no footage of him shooting or even entering the school despite it having surveillance cameras throughout being released

[]alleged victim parents laughing and smiling and shedding not one solitary tear during interviews

[] medical examiner stating that he hopes this whole event doesn't crash on top of Newtown's head

[] people walking into the fire station building and then walking around the building and back into it in a circle

[] No emergency vehicles at the school.....no aerial video of kids evacuating the school or bodies being taken out

[] CNN using footage of a drill at another school but claiming it was of Sandy Hook elementary

[] photo of alleged victim shown on news media, etc. that was actually a photo of child that didn't go to Sandy Hook, and who is alive and well.

[] photo of alleged victim wearing red/black dress in family photo also somehow miraculously sitting on Obama's lap when he went to memorial service two days after the shooting.

[] contradictory accounts of the sounds kids heard, ranging from "it sounded like someone kicking a door" to "we thought the janitor had knock something over" vs. the reporter stating she talked to a woman who heard "hundreds of shots"

[] the reporter who claims she talked to the school nurse who stated she "met eyes" with Lanza, ducked below her desk, and he just left the room, and that she knew his mother very well, stating that she was "a wonderful kindergarten teacher that you'd love having teach your child" despite the fact that Lanza's mom never worked for the school, and later the nurse claimed she never saw him, but was hiding under her desk and saw his legs only.

[] memorial social media pages like R.I.P. Virginia Soto on Facebook for example that was created on December 10th, however the shooting was Dec. 14th....this doesn't include the one set up for the school weeks before the shooting.

[] Homeland Security and FEMA holding a drill approximately 20 miles away on the same day....

Sure one or two of these oddities can be explained away, but all of them?

Last edited by errand; 03-27-2013 at 06:22 PM..
errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 06:21 PM   #182
W*GS
Ring of Famer
 
W*GS's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 20,739
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by errand View Post
Sure one or two of these oddities can be explained away, but all of them?
Please visit Snopes.

You're more full of **** than ****.
W*GS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 06:32 PM   #183
houghtam
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
Educate thyself. Even to the extent what you're saying is true, this is not remotely what's happening in this country despite what the fear mongering right-wing media is suggesting.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013...in-gun-control

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/stop..._about_hitler/
Well, since racist errand probably won't indulge us, I'll tell you all the full story of what happened after the Reichstag fire. Although the perpetrator claimed to act alone, Nazi propaganda blamed the communists, stoking anti communist fervor and effectively repressing the vote in favor of the NDAP.

So what actually happened in 1933 is much closer to the voter suppression efforts headed by your beloved conservatives. Interestingly, the fascists in Germany and Italy were conservatives, not liberals.

By the way, the gun restrictions didn't come until 5 years after the conservatives in Germany used voter suppression to take power.



Let's let that last part sink in a bit, and then ask ourselves this question, as long as we're talking about conspiracies?



Given actual historical precedent, which of these situations is more likely to happen?

A - The US Government passes legislation banning guns and conducts a house-to-house search for anyone owning a gun

OR

B - Conservatives blame a disastrous event on the moral decay of the US caused by the "cultural deviancy of minorities" and use the ensuing chaos to instill voter suppression efforts to take away the rights and liberties of a minority of its citizens



You all know the answer.

Last edited by houghtam; 03-27-2013 at 06:39 PM..
houghtam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 06:34 PM   #184
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by W*GS View Post
Please visit Snopes.

You're more full of **** than ****.
OK...if you agree to watch this video


errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 06:41 PM   #185
W*GS
Ring of Famer
 
W*GS's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 20,739
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by errand View Post
OK...if you agree to watch this video
Seen it - from the bull**** dickheads like you.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2013-03-27 at 7.40.29 PM.jpg (129.7 KB, 27 views)
W*GS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 06:48 PM   #186
baja
Pat Bowlen
 
baja's Avatar
 
The best owner ever

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 58,849

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chase Vaughn
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by W*GS View Post
Please visit Snopes.

You're more full of **** than ****.
hope that government check is worth it traitor
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 06:50 PM   #187
W*GS
Ring of Famer
 
W*GS's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 20,739
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by baja View Post
hope that government check is worth it traitor
Go F yourself, bunker boy.

PS - Is Alex Jones' spooge really salty?
W*GS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 06:50 PM   #188
Requiem
~~~
 
Requiem's Avatar
 
~ ~ ~

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Earth Division
Posts: 23,064

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Princes of Tara
Default

So much crazy in this thread it is frightening.
Requiem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 06:57 PM   #189
W*GS
Ring of Famer
 
W*GS's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 20,739
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
So much crazy in this thread it is frightening.
Yup. Between ba-bunker-boy-ja and erracist...

The loony is deep.
W*GS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 07:02 PM   #190
baja
Pat Bowlen
 
baja's Avatar
 
The best owner ever

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 58,849

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chase Vaughn
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by W*GS View Post
Yup. Between ba-bunker-boy-ja and erracist...

The loony is deep.
How do you know he is not talking about you?

Do you get paid by the word or by the post?
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 07:03 PM   #191
Fedaykin
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,903

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by errand View Post
I think that the meaning of the word regulated had nothing to do with rules or limits when the 2nd amendment was written.....and the words above support my belief.
Good work nutter, you're only a couple pages behind.
Fedaykin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 07:05 PM   #192
Requiem
~~~
 
Requiem's Avatar
 
~ ~ ~

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Earth Division
Posts: 23,064

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Princes of Tara
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by baja View Post
How do you know he is not talking about you?

Do you get paid by the word or by the post?
Well, W*GS isn't regurgitating David Icke conspiracies, now is he?
Requiem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 07:09 PM   #193
W*GS
Ring of Famer
 
W*GS's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 20,739
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by baja View Post
How do you know he is not talking about you?
Because I'm not insane, like you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by baja
Do you get paid by the word or by the post?
Do you get laid?
W*GS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 07:10 PM   #194
W*GS
Ring of Famer
 
W*GS's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 20,739
Default

Belief in conspiracy is way to avoid responsibility.

It's engaged in by spineless and balls-less cowards.
W*GS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 07:20 PM   #195
Fedaykin
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,903

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by errand View Post
Sure one or two of these oddities can be explained away, but all of them?


So a list of clerical errors and the typical things you expect to crop up, like different accounts from different witnesses.

My god you're gullible.
Fedaykin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 07:25 PM   #196
Meck77
.
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,598
Default

Answer: Yes. It will save mine but probably not the guy on the other end.
Meck77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 07:32 PM   #197
Fedaykin
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,903

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Gotta love it, the one constant of all conspiracy nutbaggery is that they want to to believe two competing things: that the alleged conspirators are both highly competent and complete, bumbling fools simultaneously.

Take the social security record thing. Nutbags like errand want you to believe that there is a vast conspiracy to cover up ? in Newtown in which Adam Lanza was murdered the day before the massacre and some other person or persons were the actual killer. They want you to believe that some entity (the gubment) went to alllll that trouble to do a coverup, and then went ahead and entered the real date of Lanza's death in a publicly available database. Cause, no matter what their goals are, the paperwork's gotta be accurate, right

Epically stupid ****.

Last edited by Fedaykin; 03-27-2013 at 07:34 PM..
Fedaykin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 07:38 PM   #198
Dr. Broncenstein
Nacho Nacho Fan
 
Dr. Broncenstein's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Sterile Fields
Posts: 13,443

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Dookie Nacho
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by W*GS View Post
Go F yourself, bunker boy.

PS - Is Alex Jones' spooge really salty?
Should I be surprised that you sport a queer solidarity avatar while suggesting another poster is a c0******er? Because, I'm not at all surprised.
Dr. Broncenstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 07:47 PM   #199
baja
Pat Bowlen
 
baja's Avatar
 
The best owner ever

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 58,849

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chase Vaughn
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
Well, W*GS isn't regurgitating David Icke conspiracies, now is he?
I have been reading your posts long enough to know you are a person with integrity. I see you as a young searcher much the way I was and hope still am. A friend of mine suggested I read David Icke about ten years ago. I valued this person's perspective on the human experience so I watched a David Icke video. At about the half way point I turned it off and thought to myself Icke is bat shiit crazy and wondered what happened to my otherwise wise friend that she could buy into the crazy talk. Several years and much research later I came to understand as bazaar and horrible as his scenario is he has it right. I understand it sounds like complete loony tunes but if you watch a few of his videos and seek out and verify those things that are verifiable you may have a holy shiit moment when you realize this war between good and evil is very real. Does he have all the details correct? I don't know but he has the scope of the battle right and it is chilling. There is a battle on for your soul and unless we wake up the cost will be beyond believe. The fact this is so unbelievable serves as their cover. Still I do not want to believe the scope of this but there is too much evidence not to and it is readily available.

I do not think they will win in the end but the longer we stay asleep the more horrendous the experience will be for all of us. At some point, likely soon they will have to tip their hand and human beings will wake up in mass and we will put a stop to this madness. I trust it will not be too late.....
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 07:48 PM   #200
baja
Pat Bowlen
 
baja's Avatar
 
The best owner ever

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 58,849

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chase Vaughn
Default

As for WA*GS he is either a useful idiot or in their employ.
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:35 AM.


Denver Broncos