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Poll: Does an armed society deter assault and murder?
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Does an armed society deter assault and murder?

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Old 03-24-2013, 09:05 PM   #26
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Only when they conspire to kill 3000 people they were elected to protect in order to establish a climate of perpetual fear and give trillions to their bankster over lords.
You misspelled "reptilian" as "b-a-n-k-s-t-e-r".

Do you think that those who aren't armed whilst going about their daily lives are shirking their civic duty?

Those folks in Aurora and the kids in Newtown got what they deserved, then, didn't they?
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:06 PM   #27
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I'm not at all surprised that you think cherishing all constitutional rights (and specifically the second amendment) equates to hating America. It's exactly how I imagined you, wags.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:10 PM   #28
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You misspelled "reptilian" as "b-a-n-k-s-t-e-r".

Do you think that those who aren't armed whilst going about their daily lives are shirking their civic duty?

Those folks in Aurora and the kids in Newtown got what they deserved, then, didn't they?
The America you think you live in left the room 11/22/63
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:14 PM   #29
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The America you think you live in left the room 11/22/63
Thanks, Mr. Stone.

Why do you think the assassination of one single person means America has become rotten to the core and is on the verge of collapse?

JFK wasn't God, and it's pathetic that you mark his death as the beginning of The End.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:17 PM   #30
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I'm not at all surprised that you think cherishing all constitutional rights (and specifically the second amendment) equates to hating America. It's exactly how I imagined you, wags.
Nope.

You think only the 2nd really matters - the rest are just fluff and dross, and only your popguns mean anything.

The entirety of the rest of the Constitution and the totality of all our laws is mere piffle and a fragile, weak, and sad joke.

Do you agree with baja that if a citizen isn't packing all the time everywhere, they're abetting tyranny?
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:19 PM   #31
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You misspelled "reptilian" as "b-a-n-k-s-t-e-r".

Do you think that those who aren't armed whilst going about their daily lives are shirking their civic duty?

Those folks in Aurora and the kids in Newtown got what they deserved, then, didn't they?
I don't know looking at your avatar I'd have to say you are the one identifying with aliens.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:23 PM   #32
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I don't know looking at your avatar I'd have to say you are the one identifying with aliens.
Get over it.

Actually, I'm glad the America of 11/22/1963 is gone.

Do you want it back?

How do you plan to tell minorities, women, gays, and many others to give up the rights they've gotten recognized and protected since then?
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:27 PM   #33
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1963 is gone and David Icke's lizard people are raping everybody.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:29 PM   #34
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Nope.

You think only the 2nd really matters - the rest are just fluff and dross, and only your popguns mean anything.

The entirety of the rest of the Constitution and the totality of all our laws is mere piffle and a fragile, weak, and sad joke.

Do you agree with baja that if a citizen isn't packing all the time everywhere, they're abetting tyranny?
I have seen in my own lifetime instances where our democratic society based upon law and order has completely broken down. For instance an unpopular jury verdict in Los Angeles, or the aftermath of a hurricane in New Orleans.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:34 PM   #35
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I have seen in my own lifetime instances where our democratic society based upon law and order has completely broken down. For instance an unpopular jury verdict in Los Angeles, or the aftermath of a hurricane in New Orleans.
Neither instance was the entire country (or even a more than tiny portion of the whole), nor are lifeboat scenarios the way one lives life properly.

I'll ask again - do all citizens have a duty to be armed, as baja believes?
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:37 PM   #36
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Thanks, Mr. Stone.

Why do you think the assassination of one single person means America has become rotten to the core and is on the verge of collapse?

JFK wasn't God, and it's pathetic that you mark his death as the beginning of The End.
Who said anything about it being the beginning the agenda has been alive and well before the Roman Empire. The evil you work for wags has been around for eons.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:38 PM   #37
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I will give ya the global warming charade was brilliant ....
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:10 PM   #38
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Neither instance was the entire country (or even a more than tiny portion of the whole), nor are lifeboat scenarios the way one lives life properly.

I'll ask again - do all citizens have a duty to be armed, as baja believes?
You have the right to keep and bear arms. Not a duty. Just like it says in the Bill of Rights. You know, the collection of costitutional amendments that makes you piss your pants upon reading the second part.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:39 AM   #39
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What an unarmed citizenry might look like when dealing with a suddenly tyrannical government.
The cognitive dissonance you're using with this argument is astounding. Orrrr you just don't know your history and are the poster boy for the need for interdisciplinary studies for science majors.

The German people were actually quite well armed, and the Nazi regime actually expanded gun rights...for everyone except the Jews. I can use the same tired, devoid of intellectualism "logic" to say that all guns should be banned because the non-Jewish gun owners either were unwilling or unable to use their guns to protect their fellow citizens.

But sure, keep using an argument that would get a 10th grader a C- in debate class.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:43 AM   #40
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Who said anything about it being the beginning the agenda has been alive and well before the Roman Empire. The evil you work for wags has been around for eons.
The Gorn have been around long enough to develop warp drive...

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Old 03-25-2013, 06:44 AM   #41
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I will give ya the global warming charade was brilliant ....
Yep, physics and chemistry are all a trick designed to enslave you.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:55 AM   #42
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You have the right to keep and bear arms. Not a duty. Just like it says in the Bill of Rights. You know, the collection of costitutional amendments that makes you piss your pants upon reading the second part.
Guns don't worry me in the slightest. Doomster gun owners do.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:41 AM   #43
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You know what, Dr. Broncenstein? After careful reflection, I believe that your Nazi references may have been more apropos than either of us first thought.

You see, there was an underlying hatred and fear of anyone culturally different, particularly the Jews. Much of the hatred toward the Jews was caused by the fact that many of them were not in favor of going to war 25 years before and did not support the war effort. They were seen as less than human because of perceived (and it turns out, entirely made up) biological and evolutionary differences between the races not backed up by science. They and other minorities were seen as "culturally deviant". Sound familiar?

Maybe the people who don't own guns should be the ones concerned about a government takeover by gun owners, and not the other way around. After all, with terms like "cultural deviance" and "evolutionary differences" coming from you guys on the right, there's a lot more in common there with the Nazi regime than anything the liberals could ever dream up. Hell, the term "Nazi", as you may or may not know, comes from an abbreviation of the term "National Socialist". GW Bush was more of a socialist than the guy we currently have.
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:09 AM   #44
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Yep, like I said. You think our democratic system is a fragile sham, prone to collapse "suddenly", and that your popguns will keep Hitler II (or Stalin Jr., or Pol Pot #2, or Obama) at bay.

Why do you hate America so much?
There's rarely anything "sudden" about it. Despotism typically takes years to evolve. But at some point, the despotic government has to disarm the target population. Far, far easier to go ahead and get that part over with early on, before the target population even realizes there is a threat.

If you were to climb in to your way-back machine, and go to Berlin circa 1912, interview random Berliners and ask thm if they thought it was possible that within one generation, their nation would be conducting genocide against multiple ethnic groups, they would have laughed at you.

In 1912, Germany was a modern, vibrant, open, multicultural, tolerant society.

22 years later, not so much.

So what happened? How did a sane, rational people go so profoundly off the rails?

Pretty easy to explain, really. Germany lost WWI, and after the war, the Allied powers forced her to pay heavy reparations. So a war torn, shattered nation was further impoverished. Germans went hungry. I mean, really hungry. They went cold in the winter, because there was no money to buy fuel for heat. For Germany, the "great depression" lasted 15 years. By the early thirties, the German people were fed up. They had been a proud, rich nation. A world power. Now, they were destitute. And far worse, a laughingstock.

And then comes along a brave, shining figure, promising to make it all better. Coincidentally, he was able to explain who was responsible for all the misery.

In 1934, Jews represented less than 3% of the German population. A slightly smaller ethic group than, say, the Arab American population today.

I will leave you with a question: Do you really think human beings have somehow fundamentally transformed into some other species in the last four generations? Some kind of wiser, gentler form of erect ape than we were 80 years ago?

Really?

Fun fact: No armed population has ever been a victim of genocide.
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:11 AM   #45
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Germany of 1922 isn't the US of 2013.
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:30 AM   #46
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There's rarely anything "sudden" about it. Despotism typically takes years to evolve. But at some point, the despotic government has to disarm the target population. Far, far easier to go ahead and get that part over with early on, before the target population even realizes there is a threat.

If you were to climb in to your way-back machine, and go to Berlin circa 1912, interview random Berliners and ask thm if they thought it was possible that within one generation, their nation would be conducting genocide against multiple ethnic groups, they would have laughed at you.

In 1912, Germany was a modern, vibrant, open, multicultural, tolerant society.

22 years later, not so much.

So what happened? How did a sane, rational people go so profoundly off the rails?

Pretty easy to explain, really. Germany lost WWI, and after the war, the Allied powers forced her to pay heavy reparations. So a war torn, shattered nation was further impoverished. Germans went hungry. I mean, really hungry. They went cold in the winter, because there was no money to buy fuel for heat. For Germany, the "great depression" lasted 15 years. By the early thirties, the German people were fed up. They had been a proud, rich nation. A world power. Now, they were destitute. And far worse, a laughingstock.

And then comes along a brave, shining figure, promising to make it all better. Coincidentally, he was able to explain who was responsible for all the misery.

In 1934, Jews represented less than 3% of the German population. A slightly smaller ethic group than, say, the Arab American population today.

I will leave you with a question: Do you really think human beings have somehow fundamentally transformed into some other species in the last four generations? Some kind of wiser, gentler form of erect ape than we were 80 years ago?

Really?

Fun fact: No armed population has ever been a victim of genocide.

Dolchstoss

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth

Antisemitism was alive and well long before Hitler and long before 1912. The war was a catalyst, and deep-seeded racism was what kept it going. Racism was a much, much larger contributor than any man or even government was capable of. That is the very reason why German society, after years of division acted with regard to Vergangenheitsbewältigung, or "coming to terms with the past". This term is use to describe not only the coming to grips with the results of 33-45, but the causes, as well. It is why you can't wear a swastika in Germany or make hate speech.

We look at them and can't fathom a world without "complete freedom of speech" (except for all the exceptions, of course). They lived through it. They understand that rights have to be defined somewhere.
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:43 AM   #47
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Germany of 1922 isn't the US of 2013.
No, it's not. But people are still people.

What would happen if the economy collapsed? Like the 2008 derivative debacle x 10? What if other countries survived such an episode better than us?

Do you think the other nations of the world might "pile on" just a little? Extract a little payback for our bullying ways?

What would the mood be in this country after 20 years of being kicked while we're down?

Boy, talk about a nation with pride issues. We don't just consider ourselves a "great nation", most Americans consider us to be the "Greatest Nation in the History of Evaarr!!!"
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:12 AM   #48
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For those of you who answered D.) I ask you, how was the American Revolutionary War won? What was the primary contributor to our success? Who were the combatants? Where did the fighting take place? What strategies and tactics were used? Which were denied various belligerents?

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Old 03-25-2013, 09:25 AM   #49
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For those of you who answered D.) I ask you, how was the American Revolutionary War won? What was the primary contributor to our success? Who were the combatants? Where did the fighting take place?
Can I piggyback on this question?

No one has yet been able to answer (in fact no one has even addressed) the question I've posed several times, which is, if the intent of the founding fathers (again, treating as if they're some monolithic body with one pervading view) when they passed the Second Amendment in 1791 was to have an armed populace that could raise up in rebellion to tyranny, why did those same founding fathers then proceed to put down the Whiskey Rebellion in 1794?

Was their intent just to set up some epic duel? Was it an 18th Century form of a sequester?

I still wonder why, again, given the fact that the founding fathers acted directly against what they had been fighting for only years before, given that many of them were well versed in both legal language as well as etymology language history, given that militias were how the American Revolution was fought and won, and given that, particularly in political discourse, "state" does not always mean "former colony", they chose to put the phrase "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state" at the very beginning. Surely no one is going to argue that word placement doesn't matter in the English language...they haven't stopped teaching that in schools, have they?
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:29 AM   #50
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Dolchstoss

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth

Antisemitism was alive and well long before Hitler and long before 1912.
Yes, yes it was. And still is. But there was (and still is) a veneer of tolerance and acceptance painted over it.

Again: do you think people have fundamentally changed recently? Did someone wave their magic PC wand and automagically banish antisemitism, racism and bigotry?

Or are we still nasty monkeys under the skin - still struggling to du reds primal urges to mistrust and fear "Other"?
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