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Old 03-24-2013, 09:19 PM   #201
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You've got to be kidding me. Damontre Moore is one of the ONLY players in this draft that could come remotely close to replacing Dumervil. Werner would be okay, but not great.

If either one of those players are available at #28 (which they won't be), they would be the BPA BY FAR. None of the other players who will be available at #28 are that great.
I was looking forward to the sky is falling routine from Pricejj
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:20 PM   #202
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One dude does. Different position though.
Exactly. As long as Peyton is dressing, I feel fine.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:28 PM   #203
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I feel ya. Striking gold in the 4th round doesn't happen much. What's even more scary is no doom on the line, coupled with a hole at MLB. Dansby would ease the pain. Have no idea why they aren't even looking that way. Irving mays and Johnson? That's laughable now that the line just got weak.
Yeah, I'm not impressed with the FO. The only thing they have done is sign Manning. Lot's of dumb moves mixed in. Losing Dumervil for nothing is epic failure.

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You're wrong. Moore's not going in the 1st round. Character and work ethic questions, plus he did not test as well athletically as an undersized 250 pound DE needs to. NO ONE is taking him in the 1st. If he's there in the 2nd, fine, but he's not good value at #28. If the values not good at #28, trade down. Down reach for need.

85 tackles, 21 TFL's, 12.5 sacks? You must be smoking rocks. If Moore is available at #28 the Broncos sprint to the podium, trip going up the stairs, tear down half the set, give Goodell a long awkward embrace, weep uncontrollably, give the sign of the cross, thank god that their SB chances were just saved, pick Moore, then drop the mic, as they walk off the stage with one fist in the air.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:31 PM   #204
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Yeah, I'm not impressed with the FO. The only thing they have done is sign Manning. Lot's of dumb moves mixed in. Losing Dumervil for nothing is epic failure.




85 tackles, 21 TFL's, 12.5 sacks? You must be smoking rocks. If Moore is available at #28 the Broncos sprint to the podium, trip going up the stairs, tear down half the set, give Goodell a long awkward embrace, weep uncontrollably, give the sign of the cross, thank god that their SB chances were just saved, pick Moore, then drop the mic, as they walk off the stage with one fist in the air.
I agree about Moore. I think he's a good player, measurables aside.

I disagree with you about everything else though.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:36 PM   #205
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85 tackles, 21 TFL's, 12.5 sacks? You must be smoking rocks. If Moore is available at #28 the Broncos sprint to the podium, trip going up the stairs, tear down half the set, give Goodell a long awkward embrace, weep uncontrollably, give the sign of the cross, thank god that their SB chances were just saved, pick Moore, then drop the mic, as they walk off the stage with one fist in the air.
Maybe one day you'll learn that stats don't always show the complete picture. Moore isn't going in the 1st round. I've yet to see any projection that suggests otherwise.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:44 PM   #206
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Maybe one day you'll learn that stats don't always show the complete picture. Moore isn't going in the 1st round. I've yet to see any projection that suggests otherwise.
Maybe one day you'll learn what a good football player looks like. Until then, I'll bet you the farm he doesn't get past #28.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:57 PM   #207
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Good news is we have a position open that we can throw Sio Moore into.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:11 PM   #208
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:30 PM   #209
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I'm referring to his attitude the past week or so.
So you are predicting he would have been a locker room cancer if he would have come back at a lower price? I don't see why people are pissed at him. He was cut, his agent is a moron and then he went out as a FA and got the best deal he could. This is his last contract and it sounds like the Ravens want him more than the Broncos.

I watch the video and Doom is a baller. He plays every play and his run defense is better than people say. He forced 7 fumbles last year I believe. I have no hard feelings over this because Denver is the team that cut him.

Was he worth $12 million this year? No, but Denver took a $4.9 million cap hit when they released. I'd rather have Doom at $12 million, than No Doom and save $7 million. Doom is worth $7 million

Anyway, water under the bridge as far as I am concerned.

Freeney sucks. I hope they just stick with what they have a draft a DE in the first or second. Denver has a young roster on the DL lets nuture them a little and see which one of them is going to excel. Freeney will not get 10 sacks next year. That is a pipe dream. He is old and will lose even more speed playing on grass.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:31 PM   #210
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The new Orange Crush was primarily successful because of the pass-rush. Without that, the Broncos Defense crumbles. They need an elite pass-rushing speed-guy, with lots of moves, and they need it fast. Time is ticking.
I'm still in shock they thought now was a good time to dick with the formula. This **** pisses me off more and more every time I think about it.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:43 AM   #211
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Maybe one day you'll learn what a good football player looks like. Until then, I'll bet you the farm he doesn't get past #28.
I'd like to take your knowledge serious but I just can't get over the Crick is a first round pick from last year.
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:53 AM   #212
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Anyone who thinks Dumervil didn't know what his agent was pulling is just plain crazy.....when it backfired on them, he tried to save face by firing the agent. He got what he could and doesn't have to play the run anymore in Baltimore. Regardless, his production will be replaced by multiple players if need be....the sky is not falling
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:57 AM   #213
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He was acting like a primadonna whiner before he left. I've been saying for a couple days to throw him out. The guy has turned into a bitter locker room cancer. We don't need that crap.
wow, a whole couple of days. what a baller you must be

locker room cancer? there hasn't even been a locker room since this thing started. you realize it's march, right?
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:38 AM   #214
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Maybe one day you'll learn what a good football player looks like. Until then, I'll bet you the farm he doesn't get past #28.
Coming from the guy who was pimping Jared Crick as an early pick last year, I think I'll look to elsewhere learn that leasson.

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Old 03-25-2013, 05:26 AM   #215
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You guys are crazy... This sucks. Thanks for the memories, Elvis. Hope his impact manages to get replaced on the field and, even more importantly, in the locker room.
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:58 AM   #216
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I'm pretty sure Trent Cole will be cut jun 1st...
Good call! You're right, this is actually a decent possibility. And I'd take him in a heartbeat over Abraham or Freeney. He was a stud up until this past season when he really underperformed for some reason along with most of that team.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:01 AM   #217
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Good news is we have a position open that we can throw Sio Moore into.
. . . and it isn't MLB. Hehe.

And FWIW, I think D-Moore can still go in the late first round. There is going to be some team that considers his production over workout #'s if he falls that far IMHO. If he isn't taken there, it is shortly after. Still a top 40 guy prolly.

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Old 03-25-2013, 06:08 AM   #218
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You guys are crazy... This sucks. Thanks for the memories, Elvis. Hope his impact manages to get replaced on the field and, even more importantly, in the locker room.
It does suck, and it does leave a hole on the team. But I try to put it in context with everything else:

Knighton>Bannan
DRC>Porter (who was barely active)
Vazquez>Ramirez/injured Kuper
Welker>Stokley
Doom>Ayers/Freeney(?)/Jackson


Overall, I'd say that's a net gain for the roster, at least on paper. And we still have the draft ahead to further enhance the roster. So, yes, this is a blow, but I think we'll be just fine as long as #18 is healthy.

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Old 03-25-2013, 06:08 AM   #219
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Maybe one day you'll learn that stats don't always show the complete picture. Moore isn't going in the 1st round. I've yet to see any projection that suggests otherwise.
I could definitely see him go in the late 1st. You say you don't see any projections suggesting that, but all four of CBS' mock draft guys have him going there, Kiper has said from what he's heard that he'll still likely make the first round, and the only criticism of Moore we've seen from Mayock and McShay is that he's not a top 10 guy, implying that he is a first round guy.

As for the measurables, his 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle from his pro days would rank at or near the top for his position this year. His broad jump and vertical were both in the top 5 at the combine. He also took his bench from horrible to respectable (12 to 19) from combine to pro day, and bench is definitely not a number that gets a pro day bump due to more favorable conditions.

The real concern for Moore is that he is physically soft and under-conditioned. He went to Texas A&M so while it's not NFL level resources he clearly had solid support around him to better sculpt his body, so that implies a lack of work ethic in the weight room. He needs someone to crack the whip on him there and turn that 6'5", 250-260 pound frame into a 6'5", 270 pound frame with less fat and a lot more lean muscle. His functional strength would then go through the roof and he'd be far more imposing.

I'm pretty sure we have the right couple of guys here with the new S&T staff, Del Rio, and Von Miller to play the role of big brother. If he falls to #28 he'd be a solid selection. If the FO thinks he's slipping into the second round he would also be an ideal target to trade back for and accrue more picks, just like they did with Wolfe.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:11 AM   #220
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Good post Drek.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:19 AM   #221
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I could definitely see him go in the late 1st. You say you don't see any projections suggesting that, but all four of CBS' mock draft guys have him going there, Kiper has said from what he's heard that he'll still likely make the first round, and the only criticism of Moore we've seen from Mayock and McShay is that he's not a top 10 guy, implying that he is a first round guy.

As for the measurables, his 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle from his pro days would rank at or near the top for his position this year. His broad jump and vertical were both in the top 5 at the combine. He also took his bench from horrible to respectable (12 to 19) from combine to pro day, and bench is definitely not a number that gets a pro day bump due to more favorable conditions.

The real concern for Moore is that he is physically soft and under-conditioned. He went to Texas A&M so while it's not NFL level resources he clearly had solid support around him to better sculpt his body, so that implies a lack of work ethic in the weight room. He needs someone to crack the whip on him there and turn that 6'5", 250-260 pound frame into a 6'5", 270 pound frame with less fat and a lot more lean muscle. His functional strength would then go through the roof and he'd be far more imposing.

I'm pretty sure we have the right couple of guys here with the new S&T staff, Del Rio, and Von Miller to play the role of big brother. If he falls to #28 he'd be a solid selection. If the FO thinks he's slipping into the second round he would also be an ideal target to trade back for and accrue more picks, just like they did with Wolfe.
Neither Kiper nor McShay have him going in the 1st in their most recent mocks, nor do they list him in their top 25 (Kiper) or 32 (McShay) lists. Mayock has him as the 3rd rated 4-3 DE, but I don't think he's issued a mock yet, so not sure where he projects him there. The upper body strength is a HUGE question mark, as you mentioned, and he also has character/work ethic questions that are driving down his value. I'll be surprised if he goes in the 1st, and won't be too happy if we reach for him that early. In the 2nd round after a trade back (as you suggest)? Fine. But I don't think he's good value at #28. I don't like rolling the dice on a guy in the 1st with questionable work habits in the hopes the he'll magically become motivated because JDR and Von give him a few pep talks. Just my opinion.

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Old 03-25-2013, 06:26 AM   #222
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I don't see how you could pine for Matt Elam @ #28 but not want one of the NCAA's best pass rushers who was viewed as a Top 5-10 pick before the Combine. His head coach said he played with high effort and motor all year last year and when teams look at the tape as opposed to his workout numbers, they will see he is worthy of a first-round selection. His off the field concerns might push him out though. We will see. I wouldn't be against the selection at all, but this article below regarding primary character concerns really worries me. A recently article by Charlie Campbell:

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Scout's Insight into Damontre Moore Published March 22, 2013 By Charlie Campbell - @draftcampbell

Texas A&M defensive end/outside linebacker Damontre Moore has had a rough draft process. He had an ugly showing at the Combine with a terrible 40 time and bench press session. Moore performed better at his Pro Day, but there are still a lot of concerns about him with NFL teams. Last year, Moore was one of the most dominant defensive players in college football. As a 20-year-old junior, he totaled 12.5 sacks - one of the larger totals in the country. Perhaps even more impressive than that, Moore led his team with 85 tackles - four more than the next closest defender. He had 21 tackles for a loss, two passes broken up, a blocked kick and a forced fumble. Moore also played through an ankle injury during the season.

While Moore (6-4, 250) was playing well on the field, he was creating a bad reputation for himself off of it. In June of 2011, Moore was arrested and accused of possessing less than two ounces of marijuana. Aside from the public incidents, Moore became known for not being a hard worker and a guy that looks to party. WalterFootball.com spoke with scouts about Moore to get an idea about the concerns teams have with Moore's character. Scouts said that Moore is complex. Not only did he have that arrest, but there are suspicions that he has had some positive drug tests at Texas A&M.

Scouts said that they think Moore is going to happily indulge in the "NFL life" with excessive spending, partying and being involved with women. They believe that Moore is super immature. He's not a worker who is going to be an example for other players in the offseason conditioning program. As a player, scouts said that Moore was not that explosive, but he is a natural pass rusher. They feel that Moore can get pushed around sometimes in the run game, but they said his pursuit skills and closing on ball carriers are incredible. One scout said that Moore has some Aldon Smith to his game.

The other complex part to Moore is that scouts said he plays extremely hard. As said by one scout, "the guy goes balls to the wall from kickoff until there is no time on the clock." Thus, they feel his effort on the field is a head-scratcher considering his lack of work ethic off the field. They wonder when/if he grows up how good he can be if he would dedicate himself to working hard in the offseason.

Scouts said that Moore needs to interview well with teams during his team visits. Any team that is interested in drafting Moore will probably host him at the their facility in order get more comfortable with adding him to their roster. Even after getting drafted, Moore is going to have a lot to prove on and off the field in the NFL.
LINK: http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill.php

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Old 03-25-2013, 06:31 AM   #223
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I don't see how you could pine for Matt Elam @ #28 but not want one of the NCAA's best pass rushers who was viewed as a Top 5-10 pick before the Combine. His head coach said he played with high effort and motor all year last year and when teams look at the tape as opposed to his workout numbers, they will see he is worthy of a first-round selection. His off the field concerns might push him out though. We will see. A recently article by Charlie Campbell: LINK: http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill.php
Like I said, I don't like players with questionable work habits in the 1st. That's my big question with him. His upper body testing is downright pathetic for a DL. That speaks to lack of effort in the weight room. I don't want to roll the dice on a guy like that in the 1st and just assume that JDR will be able to light a fire under him. Elam, on the other hand, is a leader and hard worker who makes plays all over the field. I don't think there's much chance of him being a bust. He's a safer pick IMO and he also has upside. I know you don't like him much. That's fine. Agree to disagree.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:38 AM   #224
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Neither Kiper nor McShay have him going in the 1st in their most recent mocks, nor do they list him in their top 25 (Kiper) or 32 (McShay) lists. Mayock has him as the 3rd rated 4-3 DE, but I don't think he's issued a mock yet, so not sure where he projects him there. The upper body strength is a HUGE question mark, as you mentioned, and he also has character/work ethic questions that are driving down his value. I'll be surprised if he goes in the 1st, and won't be too happy if we reach for him that early. In the 2nd round after a trade back (as you suggest)? Fine. But I don't think he's good value at #28. Just my opinion.
Sure, after Kiper has had him going #2 a big chunk of the off-season. This is the "hedging their bets" portion of their job. But even after his combine they were all still talking about him as a first rounder. Him now being removed is the ESPN bracketology approach to mock drafts - put enough of 'em out there you're sure to look good on one of them.

If Moore didn't have the physical conditioning/work ethic questions he'd be a top 10 pick. You using those to claim he isn't worth the #28th is rather disingenuous. We aren't getting a perfect player at #28. Moore happens to have the height/weight ratio and fundamental technique needed to be a successful end in the NFL, and he's got a highly productive college career to back that up. As far as flaws to his game go they're pretty minor compared to what A LOT of late first rounders will have (such as simply being under-sized, incredibly raw, or physically deficient in an area they have no legitimate hope of improving on, like slow CBs).

I'm sure we'd all love to see a trade down and still get a guy like Moore because lets face it, we're all pick whores at heart. But the guy is likely still a top 40 or so player in a pretty tightly packed 5-75 group of prospects. If he's the guy they like and they believe Del Rio and Miller can motivate him, but think he'll be gone before where they can trade back to why take the risk?

Moore is the kind of prospect who either becomes Jarvis Moss or Jason Pierre Paul depending on how dedicated he is to becoming a better player.

Speaking of Pierre Paul, he bested Moore's 40 time with a 4.71 (instead of Moore's 4.95 hamstring-tweaked run), but he also only did 19 reps on the bench (what Moore did at his pro day) while carrying an extra 10 pounds, his vertical was 5 inches shorter (30.5" v. 35.5") his broad jump was half a foot shorter (9'7" v. 10'2"), his 20 yard shuttle was slower by a greater margin than their 40 times (4.67 for JPP, 4.33 for Moore), and their 3 cone was close enough to be the same.

So he's got comparable athletic measurables to one of the better young pass rushers in the league. His 40 time is just a black mark that scares people away. Last I checked DEs don't generally run 40 yards in a straight line too often. Something that measured short area bursts of power (like the vertical and broad jump) or change of direction followed by quick acceleration (like the 20 yard shuttle and 3 cone drill) would be more representative.

If one of the least important DE numbers scares other teams off we only look to benefit if you ask me.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:39 AM   #225
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I know you don't like him much.
That would be an understatement.
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