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Old 03-25-2013, 05:12 PM   #1
mhgaffney
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Default Syria -- just what we need, another failed state

Another nation is being destroyed with the blessing of the US -- indeed with the CIA's help.

Why? US support for radical Islamic elements (aka Al Qaeda) will insure that Syria descends into chaos -- like Iraq and Libya.

but but I thought Al Qaeda were the bad guys??

The only beneficiary is the extremist government of Israel.

Some are speaking out, including Nobel Peace Prize winner Desmnd Tutu. See below.

MHG

Syria: the failure of our so-called international community

How can the country be abandoned in its hour of need? Power plays have taken priority over the terrible suffering of Syrians

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...onal-community

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Old 03-25-2013, 05:22 PM   #2
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Sec of State Kerry lecturing Iraq's leadership on this is pathetic. After what the US did to Iraq (we destroyed the country) we are in no position to lecture anyone.

MHG

Maliki Resists Kerry's Call to Halt Flow of Iranian Arms to Syria

By Paul Richter

March 25, 2013 "Information Clearing House" -"LA Times"
- BAGHDAD – Secretary of State John Kerry pressed Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki on Sunday to stop Iran from flying arms across Iraqi territory to the beleaguered Syrian regime, but found him unwilling to give ground.

In a visit to Baghdad that was not announced in advance, Kerry told Maliki that the almost daily flights have become a lifeline for Syrian President Bashar Assad that is undermining the efforts of the United States and allies to negotiate the departure of Assad and an end to the 2-year-old war. And Kerry warned that many in the United States are wondering how, after Americans “have tried so hard to be helpful” in rebuilding post-Saddam Iraq, the country could stand in its way.

“The overflights from Iran are, in fact, helping to sustain Assad,” Kerry told reporters after the meeting, which he described as “spirited.”

But Maliki repeated Iraq’s view that there is no definitive proof that the cargoes are arms, rather than humanitarian aid, as the Iranians contend. Kerry was left to say that he will gather more information to prove his point.

The overflights have become an increasingly important issue for the Obama administration, which believes that they have reinforced Assad’s desire to stand and fight even as his military fortunes crumble. Vice President Joe Biden, former Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton and other U.S. officials have unsuccessfully pressed the Iraqis to halt the flights, or at least begin ground inspections of the Iranian cargo.

“The number of flights shows that they can’t possibly be humanitarian flights,” a senior administration official, who declined to be identified citing the diplomatic sensitivity of the subject, told reporters.

But the Shiite-dominated Iraqi government, which worries that it could be next if Sunni rebel fighters sweep Assad from power, has conducted only two inspections since last year in response to American pressure. They say both of them revealed only humanitarian aid.

Some in Congress are outraged. At a House hearing last week, lawmakers told the U.S. ambassador to Syria, Robert Ford, that the United States should slap Iraq with unspecified “consequences” for acting as an arms conduit for the Iranians.

U.S. officials say they have no plans to penalize the Iraqis. Instead, they are offering them the incentive of a “seat at the table” in future international negotiations over the fate of Syria, if Iraq will cooperate in halting the arms traffic. U.S. officials argue this will give Iraq far more influence over the future of its western neighbor.

They warn that the war is already spilling across the border in ways that threaten Iraq. The senior official said Al Qaeda militants recently mounted an attack on a column of Syrian soldiers who had drifted across the border into Iraq. And there are reports of collaboration between Al Qaeda and the Nusra Front, a militant Islamist opposition group in Syria.

"That kind of thing easily gets out of hand and can threaten … Maliki and the Shiites in Iraq,” the official said.

Kerry’s visit comes at a moment when the administration has a list of worries about the direction of the Iraqi government but lacks the leverage it had when thousands of troops and billions of dollars in U.S aid flowed into the country.

While Kerry hailed the progress the country has made toward stability and prosperity, he also warned Iraqi leaders that they must overcome the differences that still divide its Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds.

Kerry pushed Maliki to reconsider its decision to suspend upcoming April elections in the two Sunni-dominated regions of Anbar and Ninewah. Maliki delayed the voting, saying Sunni demonstrations made it unsafe for election workers.

But in U.S. officials’ view, the delay would only further alienate Iraqi Sunnis, who already feel that they have too little control over the government that they dominated in the days of Saddam Hussein. The delay of the election “is a serious blow to enfranchisement,” said the senior administration official.

Kerry said after the meeting with Maliki that the Iraqi cabinet would reconsider the decision.

Kerry also met with Parliament Speaker Osama Nujayfi and spoke by telephone with Massoud Barzani, president of the Kurdistan Regional Government.

American influence over the country, or the lack of it, was the subject of a joke between the two leaders before their meeting.

Appearing briefly before photographers, Kerry joked to Maliki that Clinton had told him that the Iraqi leader is “going to do everything I say.”

Maliki shot back through the translator: “We won’t do it!”

Kerry, who has been deputized to try to find a new approach to Israeli-Palestinian peacemaking, offered reporters little hint at a news conference of how he intends to carry out that job.

He said he wouldn’t describe his talks Saturday with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas except to say they were “open, candid and a good beginning.”
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:36 PM   #3
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gaffe, you'd prefer Assad, patron saint of anti-Israel terrorists, to remain in power.

You really hate Jews and America.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:39 PM   #4
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Actually I would prefer Assad to stay in power as well....at least until a responsible and most importantly secular group has sufficient political support to fill the vacuum. As of now, it looks like the Brotherhood or one of its offshoots is most likely to fill the vacuum, which is why Morsi has been active in trying to "broker" something there.

No....I'll take a vicious despot over the Brotherhood any day.. I don't want Muslim radicals to take over another government. I will take the alternative no matter how unpleasant it is.
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:21 AM   #5
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America and the region were better off with Mubarek and Gaddaffi. Now we have radicals filling those voids and it looks like the bunch in Syria is outright the worst of the bunch. If what has happened is a foriegn policy win for Obama then i would hate to see what the bad outcome would have been.

Whats worst is Obama got Israel to apologize to Turkey in exchange for what was supposed to be restarting diplomatic ties with Israel. Instead after Obama did apology tour II they decided to say we aren't ready yet to do that lol. Israel looks the fool right now. I sure hope Obama knows what he is doing but i have some serious doubts.

I think we should have followed what Hilliary originally said. Calm down, no reason to overthrow Mubarek, lets take this slow. Instead Obama came out and said you have to step down totally illegitamizing Mubarek. Gaddaffi actually helped us with Iran and there nuclear program by giving us the centrifuge controllers that were the same as iran was using. They gave up Nukes because Bush told them it would be something that helped them with American and world relations. How did that work out for him? Hell for some reason they felt he deserved to be bombed and have a no fly zone. maybe they saw how ****ed up those 2 countries are now and have decided leaving Assad in safer.
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:24 AM   #6
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Obama should have left troops in Iraq and maintained control of its airspace. Now instead iran controls the airspace. Good job Biden securing the agreement we needed with Iraq to stay in the country. Instead they gave up easy and left.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:01 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
Obama should have left troops in Iraq and maintained control of its airspace. Now instead iran controls the airspace. Good job Biden securing the agreement we needed with Iraq to stay in the country. Instead they gave up easy and left.
It's so much fun to rewrite history to fit your ideological prejudices, isn't it?

President Obama's speech formally declaring that the last 43,000 U.S. troops will leave Iraq by the end of the year was designed to mask an unpleasant truth: The troops aren't being withdrawn because the U.S. wants them out. They're leaving because the Iraqi government refused to let them stay.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...-there/247174/

Going into Iraq was the biggest mistake America has made since Vietnam. Then, the operation itself was a complete cluster****. And now the Right would like to criticize the outcome? No wonder nobody that understands anything about politics takes you lunatics seriously.

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Old 03-26-2013, 11:15 AM   #8
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muslims killing muslims. got a problem with that?
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:36 AM   #9
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Wow a lefty rag defending a despot. I hope they have more than just "America doesn't like him" for their position.

Syria has been supporting terrorist activity in Lebanon for years, not counting the invasion. They've been a big supporter and supplier of Hezbollah since the early days, I would guess.

The CIA helping Muhajideen against the USSR when it invaded Afghanistan, some of which later moved on to forming Al Qaida is not supporting Al Qaida.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:37 AM   #10
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muslims killing muslims. got a problem with that?
Absolutely not.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:52 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk View Post
Wow a lefty rag defending a despot.
Explain:



Quote:
Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk
The CIA helping Muhajideen against the USSR when it invaded Afghanistan, some of which later moved on to forming Al Qaida is not supporting Al Qaida.
It's called "blowback".
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:55 AM   #12
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I've explained that Saddam was an ally against the USSR-backed Iranians. Apparently you'd rather the Soviets have dominated the region.

SO Wog, are you saying you don't blindly trust the goodness of the US govt? If not, why b**** about gun owners?
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:05 PM   #13
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I've explained that Saddam was an ally against the USSR-backed Iranians. Apparently you'd rather the Soviets have dominated the region.
Why would Rummy be shaking hands, smiling, with Hitler?

Just how flexible are your "ethics"?

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SO Wog, are you saying you don't blindly trust the goodness of the US govt?
Why do you assume everyone else is as moronic as you are?
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:21 PM   #14
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Saddam was one of our puppets that got away from us. Helping him cement his family was something we had to fix which was a big reason for our attack. No way we were going to deal with someone as crazy as N Koreas nutjob in the Persian Gulf. Not one that used to be our puppet. Just like how we won't normalize with Cuba. Its not because they are worst then some other dictatorships its just we feel they backstabbed us. America holds a grudge and Saddam and his sons staying in power was a deal breaker. It may still be a mess but iraq probably ends up better then the countries where the change was brought by islamic radicals who then implement their crazy sharia law.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:23 PM   #15
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cut, someone ought to put together a fund drive and buy you a clue - or, at least, a subscription to "Foreign Affairs".

Sheesh.
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