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Old 03-20-2013, 11:08 PM   #301
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Yeah 3/18 is not realistic. He is not going to do less than the 8 he had agreed to kicking and screaming. The cap hit changes it from Denver's standpoint but not his. The market will bear more than 6...if it didn't DEN would have asked for more than a reduction to 8 initially.
He isn't getting 8 million. No team is paying him that, no team is spending in Free Agency. He lost out.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:31 PM   #302
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On the plus side. Ayers raped face when Doom had to sit early in the Carolina game.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:38 PM   #303
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On the plus side. Ayers raped face when Doom had to sit early in the Carolina game.
Maybe we are getting like the Steelers, we are able to let go of prime players that got too expensive by drafting well and plugging in the young future stud to replace the expensive aging proven stud
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:51 PM   #304
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Maybe hez repkaceable against the.run ... Quick name the last de in denver.with more.sacks then him in a careef
You typed this in the dark and guessed where the keys were on your laptop? Good God spaz.

BTW, if Doom goes with 3/$18 then he is loyal to the cause and team as he knows his agent ****ed him over but he isn't going to make 8 million anywhere else so why should Denver be held to the 8 million when Doom's side of the negotiating ****ed up? He already cost us over 4.5 million dollars. Doom signs the deal, fair concerning going rate and the cap hit doesn't hurt as much and almost covers what we would have paid him in the first two seasons. I would expect him to sign a deal like that.
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Old 03-21-2013, 05:35 AM   #305
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I don't remember seeing 6.5 but you might be right.....dunno. In any event I'm almost certain the market would give him something better than that.
I doubt it. Maybe if he had hit FA on day one, but not at this point. The teams that were willing to spend big on a pass rusher have already done so. The teams still in the market are bargain hunting. He's not getting a big deal from Baltimore. They can't even keep their own players. Maybe if Tennessee is involved (as I've seen reported), he might be able to get in ~$7 million range if maximizing dollars is his only objective (and I wouldn't blame him if it were). To me, this probably comes down to ego. He had an agreement from the club for $8 million this season, so he may feel he can't take less than that even if the current offer is the best one he receives. I think people are looking at this as "Doom>Kruger/Avril, therefore Doom will get paid more," but it's not that simple.
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Old 03-21-2013, 05:45 AM   #306
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Doom will have to look for a team without a high paid QB eating up salary but that still wants to spend money. Titans seem plausible because Chirs Johnson probably the only super high priced guy.
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Old 03-21-2013, 05:45 AM   #307
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The market will bear more than 6...if it didn't DEN would have asked for more than a reduction to 8 initially.
On the other hand Doom wouldn't have accepted that number if he thought he could do any better.
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:04 AM   #308
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Replacing a guy like Dumervil isn't as easy as it sounds. Sure, you can find a situational vet near retirement to come in on passing downs for $5M a year.

If I was an opponent (like the Ravens, or Patriots), I would pass all day on 1st and 2nd down, knowing I could double Von and face minimal pass-rush.

Getting rid of Dumervil, only means that the Broncos will be forced to spend a late 1st round draft pick on a pass-rusher sometime in the near future, with production that probably won't be anywhere near Dumervil's.
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:39 AM   #309
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Replacing a guy like Dumervil isn't as easy as it sounds. Sure, you can find a situational vet near retirement to come in on passing downs for $5M a year.

If I was an opponent (like the Ravens, or Patriots), I would pass all day on 1st and 2nd down, knowing I could double Von and face minimal pass-rush.

Getting rid of Dumervil, only means that the Broncos will be forced to spend a late 1st round draft pick on a pass-rusher sometime in the near future, with production that probably won't be anywhere near Dumervil's.
So true about replacing isn't easy but, we didn't get much rush with Doom or anybody else against (Ravens or Pats). I wanted to see Doom and Miller with stronger DT's in place. Today's NFL you have to adjust and get used too losing key guys it will happen again. At least I feel comfy John is running show now. We will survive without Doom and bolster our rush.
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:44 AM   #310
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Replacing a guy like Dumervil isn't as easy as it sounds. Sure, you can find a situational vet near retirement to come in on passing downs for $5M a year.

If I was an opponent (like the Ravens, or Patriots), I would pass all day on 1st and 2nd down, knowing I could double Von and face minimal pass-rush.

Getting rid of Dumervil, only means that the Broncos will be forced to spend a late 1st round draft pick on a pass-rusher sometime in the near future, with production that probably won't be anywhere near Dumervil's.
See, thats the thing, we would've needed to spend a high pick on a DE anyways because Dumervil is turning 29, is costing a lot when that money needs to go to keeping Von Miller.
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:50 AM   #311
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Beal could be a wild card here as well.. Not a full Doom replacement but along with, in combination with Solid vet like Abraham or Freeney that will benefit greatly from having Von roaming the front line, Jeremy could be a real bright spot for us this year if fully healthy as it seems he should be.

Dude looked much better in camp last year and definitely has a consistent motor. Good teams always find a way to surprise prognosticators by getting the most out of their previous bench and developmental players too. Beal is a guy capable of becoming a solid DE starter in this league... This year three after missing last season is his best chance to prove if that is true.

If we bag Abraham or Freeney and still have cash for a decent Safety FA (are any possibilities left at this point?) that combination could make up for Dooms overall production.

Will be interesting to see how Doom fairs with Ravens or Titans now without Von drawing so much attention? Von will not take a hit in his production with the stouter overall Dline plus either an energized Freeney, Abraham or even Osi on the other side.. No way they can double up on Von every play with either of those guys on the other side. We'll be fine.

The main effect is we likely have to draft a Pass rushing DE in the first two rounds where if Elvis takes his smart pill this morning and ponies up again we can focus on other positions of need with BPA left among RB, MLB and Saftey in the early rounds. That's may well be the biggest caveat for us in this unwanted saga.

Last edited by Hulamau; 03-21-2013 at 07:52 AM..
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:52 AM   #312
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:53 AM   #313
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Replacing a guy like Dumervil isn't as easy as it sounds. Sure, you can find a situational vet near retirement to come in on passing downs for $5M a year.

If I was an opponent (like the Ravens, or Patriots), I would pass all day on 1st and 2nd down, knowing I could double Von and face minimal pass-rush.

Getting rid of Dumervil, only means that the Broncos will be forced to spend a late 1st round draft pick on a pass-rusher sometime in the near future, with production that probably won't be anywhere near Dumervil's.
Teams already pass on 1st and 2nd downs. And with the new RB helmet rule they are going to pass even more. NFL is slowly fading out the run game in favor of passing attacks. Today's rules lets the QBs and recievers have field days. While an RB is gonna get a 15 yard penalty turning upfield into a safety off a sweep.

Teams better have healthy pass rushing specialists.

Last edited by Drunken.Broncoholic; 03-21-2013 at 08:03 AM..
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:55 AM   #314
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On the plus side. Ayers raped face when Doom had to sit early in the Carolina game.
Ayers has 6.5 career sacks in 4 years. Lost his job in training camp to Hunter and Wolf. Depending on Ayers would be a a colossal mistake.
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:18 AM   #315
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Robin to the rescue?

Von Miller is headed back today, from the USO tour, to do some children's eyeglass events for the NFL...in Miami. And yes, he is going to hang out with Batman (Dumervil).
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:45 AM   #316
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Teams already pass on 1st and 2nd downs. And with the new RB helmet rule they are going to pass even more. NFL is slowly fading out the run game in favor of passing attacks. Today's rules lets the QBs and recievers have field days. While an RB is gonna get a 15 yard penalty turning upfield into a safety off a sweep.

Teams better have healthy pass rushing specialists.
I don't believe this is true, the rule only effects how runners outside of the tackle box engage defenders. That has little effect on the running game as a whole, because running backs have an arsenal of techniques for shedding defenders when they are 1-on-1. The only the that the rule stipulates is that players can not use the crown of their helmet as a battering ram.
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:58 AM   #317
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I don't believe this is true, the rule only effects how runners outside of the tackle box engage defenders. That has little effect on the running game as a whole, because running backs have an arsenal of techniques for shedding defenders when they are 1-on-1. The only the that the rule stipulates is that players can not use the crown of their helmet as a battering ram.
Good thing Earl Campbell and Walter Payton didnt play then. I went back and watched quite a few runs by Marshawn and Steven Jackson. Both had runs that would've resulted in penalties. There was one against SF where Jackson got a 1st down by running right through gholdson. With his helmet down like a ram. It's a **** rule plain and simple. Frank gore lowers his head every time he runs a sweep.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:01 AM   #318
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I bet Dumervil decides to sit out camp and hope a team loses someone to injury so he can get his price up. He thinks he's worth ten million. He isn't.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:06 AM   #319
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I bet Dumervil decides to sit out camp and hope a team loses someone to injury so he can get his price up. He thinks he's worth ten million. He isn't.
His value goes down by the minute. He will get big bucks right away if he is getting them. I bet he turns out a one year rent a DE then chases the money. Screw him Denver paid him 2x his value past couple years and didn't complain now they were willing to pay him more than he was worth and he drug his feet too long.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:07 AM   #320
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I don't believe this is true, the rule only effects how runners outside of the tackle box engage defenders. That has little effect on the running game as a whole, because running backs have an arsenal of techniques for shedding defenders when they are 1-on-1. The only the that the rule stipulates is that players can not use the crown of their helmet as a battering ram.
Is there much evidence that this is a problem though? (injury wise) Off the top of my head I can't remember a situation where someone got hurt by the crown of an RB's helmet in an open field 1 on 1 type situation.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:08 AM   #321
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Robin to the rescue?

Von Miller is headed back today, from the USO tour, to do some children's eyeglass events for the NFL...in Miami. And yes, he is going to hang out with Batman (Dumervil).

More like Batman.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:13 AM   #322
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Is there much evidence that this is a problem though? (injury wise) Off the top of my head I can't remember a situation where someone got hurt by the crown of an RB's helmet in an open field 1 on 1 type situation.
It's hazy judgement call by refs too. It's yet another opportunity for refs to influence a game. Try lowering your shoulder without lowering your head. Looks like you're trying to accept a hickey. What one ref sees as lowering your shoulder another will see it as lowering your helmet. It's like PI.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:27 AM   #323
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It's hazy judgement call by refs too. It's yet another opportunity for refs to influence a game. Try lowering your shoulder without lowering your head. Looks like you're trying to accept a hickey. What one ref sees as lowering your shoulder another will see it as lowering your helmet. It's like PI.
I get a feeling with the whole retiree health controversy they feel the need to 'do something' in order to deflect blame when the inevitable happens. Even if that something doesn't really accomplish anything.

This is the NFL's version of gun control legislation.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:29 AM   #324
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I get a feeling with the whole retiree health controversy they feel the need to 'do something' in order to deflect blame when the inevitable happens. Even if that something doesn't really accomplish anything.

This is the NFL's version of gun control legislation.
I agree. It'd be easier just to accept that football is dangerous and no one is forcing you to play it...but you will get compensated. People like being gladiators. Its not for everyone, but enough to fill a league, college, high school, etc...and the public loves it.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:37 AM   #325
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Is there much evidence that this is a problem though? (injury wise) Off the top of my head I can't remember a situation where someone got hurt by the crown of an RB's helmet in an open field 1 on 1 type situation.
There are a few cases of LBers getting hurt that way, but it is really rare I believe. I don't think this rule is necessary on its own, but I believe it is part of a larger push to change the game and I think we will see more rules of a similar nature in the coming years. They took out head shots on QBs, then WRs, now DBs, I think this trend will continue.

Ultimately football players are paid a lot of money because there is risk involved in what they do, and sooner or later the NFL and other pro leagues will have to decide if they are in the business of pure athletics or entertainment. They are tilting dangerously towards entertainment, with these new and somewhat arbitrary rules, the reluctance to use technology to help accurately determine the outcome of games and the push towards removing elements of the game such as kickoffs.
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