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Old 03-19-2013, 09:38 PM   #76
Pontius Pirate
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
Answer this one question--are these minors?

Here's the definition of a minor: "A person under the age of full legal responsibility."

If by definition these kids are under the age of full responsibility, what does that mean? If the girl is a victom, and underage, that is, not "of full legal responsibility" then who assumes full responsibility for her actions and safety? I contend it's her parents. I also contend that the parents of the perpetrators and all the other perps involved should be held accountable.

PS, I never said the girl is responsible so please quit saying that. I said the parents are to blame for her being put an a bad situation to begin with. You either get it or you don't.
BS, you said the girl was known to be drinking and lying and so she's partly accountable. At best, you're running the tired old "everyone's to blame" defense that attorney's use when their client has committed a horrible crime. At worst, you're slipping into the discussion a supposition that the girl was asking for it.

Now you're backing away from that and saying "woah woah - they're all minors anyway so NONE of them are responsible, it's all the parents."

Very lawyerly. The old wookie defense.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:41 PM   #77
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BS, you said the girl was known to be drinking and lying and so she's partly accountable. At best, you're running the tired old "everyone's to blame" defense that attorney's use when their client has committed a horrible crime. At worst, you're slipping into the discussion a supposition that the girl was asking for it.

Now you're backing away from that and saying "woah woah - they're all minors anyway so NONE of them are responsible, it's all the parents."

Very lawyerly. The old wookie defense.
I said no such thing. Again, I question your ability to read and comprehend.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:01 PM   #78
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The problem with stats of reoffending is that they often don't make a seperation between reoffending with another sex crime, or just going back to jail for some other crime or probation violation.

I do remember though that the re-offending rate for men who rape more then one victim was really high. Some stuff to think about because we have to manage our justice system better then having people on the street with no legal place to live. You can't just keep building parks next to apt buildings they live in for the sole purpose of moving them on. IMO that is not a solution.

IMO we should find a way for people to get off the sex offender registry if they don't reoffend. Once a person has 2 sex crimes then ok leave them on forever. Better yet just keep them in prison.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:14 PM   #79
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BS, you said the girl was known to be drinking and lying and so she's partly accountable. At best, you're running the tired old "everyone's to blame" defense that attorney's use when their client has committed a horrible crime. At worst, you're slipping into the discussion a supposition that the girl was asking for it.

Now you're backing away from that and saying "woah woah - they're all minors anyway so NONE of them are responsible, it's all the parents."

Very lawyerly. The old wookie defense.
If you let your kids engage in risky behavoir then you are too blame when they get injured during said risky behavoir. My parents until i was 18 always made me say where i was going. They would check up on me, make sure i was where i said i was going to be. They would want to talk to parents where i was going. They would talk to my friends parents to double check all our stories and to make sure all the parents knew what was going on.

Sure we still drank some and partied but they did all they could to let us be kids and still know where we were and what we were doing.

If I didn't follow the rules of where i was supposed to be, etc etc then i just didn't get to go anywhere.

Parents are to blame and the girl is probably a little teenage tramp whose parents let her run wild. The two boys probably a couple of ingrate heathens who are selfish, arrogant, and thought they were too cool for rules. They had no respect for women because their parents probably didn't demand it. My father demanded that his kids respect adults, respect authority and don't follow the crowd at school.

Todays kids are a joke and parents are not near strict enough anymore. My dad would take away chunks of the summer on restriction if my brother and I did not listen to him. By the 4th - 5th grade we had it figured out. Our dad was awesome all we had to do is come home from school empty the trash, do the dishes, clean up the back yard and take care of the dog poop. On Sat wake up early and start on the lawn. Once we figured that out we enjoyed summers water skiing, traveling, getting to go see telescopes and spacecrafts my dad worked on, everything a kid could want.

Todays kids the parents hire a gardner and they have to be asked to do every little thing. Not all but most IMO.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:18 PM   #80
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Ok, I reread it and it's not. I apologize but your point is still stupid. Blaming her parents is ridiculous. How many parents in this world have teenage daughters who lie and drink?

You can't keep tabs on your teenager without being super clingy and a terrible parent. This had nothing to do with the parents. It has to do with douche bag football players who have no respect for women, let alone another human being.
Sure you can. The whole friggin town knew the kids were going to party. You can for sure keep your kid from drinking without being a bad parent. It's called dropping them off and checking out the party they are going to. Its called making them check in and if they dont you go find them. It's called talking to the boys she will be with and explaining what you expect from them. I had plenty of dads talk to me when I picked up girls to go out. I always understood when a dad made a point of telling me something that I had better listen.

maybe kids today just uncontrollable? Maybe because our schools are so pussified we raise a bunch of kids who don't respect aldults like they should.
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:07 AM   #81
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It's absolutely stupid to blame the parents of the victim. Seems almost like everyone wants to blame everybody but the actual rapists.
If we want to play this game of blaming parents,why aren't we blaming the parents of the rapists? Hell,from I've read the mother of one of the rapists is a prosecutor for Jefferson county & used her position to try and stop the victim from filing charges.

Last edited by peacepipe; 03-20-2013 at 06:18 AM..
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:23 AM   #82
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she is not the only 16yr old to stay out past curfew. she wont be the last 16yr old girl to stay out past curfew, go to a party and pass out.


let me get this clear for all you knuckle heads out there
THE RAPIST ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT HAPPENED. THEY ARE THE BLAME. I AM NOT SAYING THEY ARE INNOCENT
I hope that is clear enough.

how do you know they will rape another girl if she wasn't there? were you at the party? do you know the two boys? are they repeat offenders? do you know that this was a premeditated rape, that the boys plan to go to the party and rape the first girl they see? did you witness other girls passed out rolling on the ground?
In the words of Chief Wiggum, "Dig up, stupid."

By b****ing about a 16 year old who got drunk and "got herself raped" you're attempting to give a pass to the ****ing **********s who raped her. That's what you're doing.

Premeditated rape? I don't know... they drove her to several different places, involved other people in the "fun." Yeah, I'd say "premeditated" isn't that far off.

You're still a ****ing moron. Please stop talking.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:49 AM   #83
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In the words of Chief Wiggum, "Dig up, stupid."

By b****ing about a 16 year old who got drunk and "got herself raped" you're attempting to give a pass to the ****ing **********s who raped her. That's what you're doing.

Premeditated rape? I don't know... they drove her to several different places, involved other people in the "fun." Yeah, I'd say "premeditated" isn't that far off.

You're still a ****ing moron. Please stop talking.
calm down Orton. no need for all the profanity and personal attack.

I remember in back in 7th grade, i got jumped walking to the mall with my buddy after school. my wallet was stolen and bloodied up pretty good. my dad found out and kicked my ass for not going straight home after school like he told me to. Did I deserve to get jumped? no. Did i get myself jumped? no. Could i of prevented the attack if I listen to my dad, probably.

I know this is a touchy subject for many of you. In no way am I blaming the girl. I know there is a fine line between "got herself raped" and "taking personal responsibility" and you think I have crossed it. Sorry dude, it was just how I was raised.

This is is a tough subject as my feelings on it have changed several times since my first post on this matter. Its about listening to other people POV and be understanding. Hence my feelings about this subject has changed over the past several days.
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:07 AM   #84
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It's absolutely stupid to blame the parents of the victim. Seems almost like everyone wants to blame everybody but the actual rapists.
If we want to play this game of blaming parents,why aren't we blaming the parents of the rapists? Hell,from I've read the mother of one of the rapists is a prosecutor for Jefferson county & used her position to try and stop the victim from filing charges.
They are too blame also.
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:52 AM   #85
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calm down Orton. no need for all the profanity and personal attack.

I remember in back in 7th grade, i got jumped walking to the mall with my buddy after school. my wallet was stolen and bloodied up pretty good. my dad found out and kicked my ass for not going straight home after school like he told me to. Did I deserve to get jumped? no. Did i get myself jumped? no. Could i of prevented the attack if I listen to my dad, probably.

I know this is a touchy subject for many of you. In no way am I blaming the girl. I know there is a fine line between "got herself raped" and "taking personal responsibility" and you think I have crossed it. Sorry dude, it was just how I was raised.

This is is a tough subject as my feelings on it have changed several times since my first post on this matter. Its about listening to other people POV and be understanding. Hence my feelings about this subject has changed over the past several days.
While I agree with how your dad handled things with you, the fact you were not listening to your dad has nothing to do with the actions of the guys that jumped you. Your dad should have also made an effort to make sure those guys were made to answer for what they did.

There is no fine line between "got herself raped" and personal responsibility. If that were true, we are right back to "if she didn't wear those short dresses". There is no female that "get's herself raped" regardless of whether she was listening to her parents. Her parents can deal with that. The boys had no right to do what they did and are in shock over the consequences. This was serious enough to effect the girl's and the boys futures in very negative ways.

I do agree with the sex offenders registry. While most serial rapists do it for the power and control, I see this situation as alcohol induced where common sense goes out the window. That doesn't negate the fact that they went too far and took advantage. But if they go several years without repeating such a crime, take them off. However the one kid who was attempting to apologize at the trial, never to the girl but that pictures shouldn't have been taken, may take a while to figure out he's actually done something wrong. Idiot.
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:49 PM   #86
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We should just start beating proven rapist to death with hammers or letting the public throw rocks at them till someone gets bingo ...

We could make a PPV event of it and use the money to fund schools and jails.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:23 PM   #87
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I can't believe I am saying this as I am conservative and believe that everyone is accountable for their actions.

Does that mean the two boys are sex offenders? We don't know that. But to label them as such for the rest of their life is hard to accept. I did plenty wrong as a teenager, but what i did 20 yrs ago does not in any way represent the person I am today.
Did you murder someone 20 years ago? Did you rape or sexually assault someone 20 years ago? Did you molest a child 20 years ago? I think if the answer is yes, well, then what you did 20 years ago does indeed define who you are.

The problem with your argument is that they knew it was wrong.....and while I agree the parents could have prevented such actions, they had to know what they did was wrong.

And if they didn't then, they know it's wrong now.....they should thank God the only place their name is gonna be posted is on the sex offender rolls instead of the obituaries and tombstones, which if they did this to my daughter their names would be posted.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:31 PM   #88
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no, but i was always held in check by my father. I was always taught that I am responsible for my actions and that their will be consequences for my wrongs. These kids ran the town. They were considered saviors. Adults never held them accountable.

I can't say I would do something as deranged if given the opportunity. But look at the other kids who was there to witness everything. They didn't think much of it and never attempted to intervene. If anything, they were probably encouraging it. Now you tell me, should those kids be held accountable as well?
Yes, those who encouraged, suggested and cheered it on should be punished as well....
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:02 PM   #89
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how do you know they will rape another girl if she wasn't there?

Because they raped her.....if they would do it to her, they'd have done it to someone else as well....she was the easiest victim.

were you at the party?

nope...were you?

do you know the two boys?

Nope....do you?

are they repeat offenders?

I admit I have no idea if this was the first time they raped/humiliated/defiled a girl...or the first time they got caught


do you know that this was a premeditated rape, that the boys plan to go to the party and rape the first girl they see? did you witness other girls passed out rolling on the ground?

I did not witness anything as I was not invited to the party, and I doubt the boys went to the party with the intention to rape a girl....but I also doubt they weren't thinking with their ***** either, and alcohol clouds judgement too. I do think that they saw this girl drunk and decided they could do whatever they wanted with her, and were egged on by their buddies, etc....

In bold
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