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Old 03-12-2013, 09:34 AM   #101
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If we pay $6 for DF on top of the $5 of dead money on Doom, I'm gonna flip some ****.
I agree I don't want the Broncos to pay Freeney $6 million. But you have to realize that dead money isn't cash. So 12-6=6 is still a big savings. The dead money is irrelevant from a budget perspective.
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:44 AM   #102
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I agree I don't want the Broncos to pay Freeney $6 million. But you have to realize that dead money isn't cash. So 12-6=6 is still a big savings. The dead money is irrelevant from a budget perspective.
Cap is all I care about. If you're in full Super Bowl heat, paying a 37 YO QB $20 large a year, yet you outright cut your best player on the DL just to pocket some spare change for Annabel's next botox session? There's not much to be said other than you're one ****ty NFL owner.
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:59 AM   #103
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He immediately launched to success, posting a career-high 1,086 rushing yards that season. Last year, ran for 986 yards while being limited with a knee injury he sustained against the New York Jets, Though Reggie Bush didnít miss a game due to the injury he struggled with its lingering effects through a few weeks, otherwise his production would have been even higher last season.

However, Reggie Bush came back from the knee injury to close the season strong, finishing with eight touchdowns for only the third season in his seven-year NFL career.

Ooooh his production was so low and he was so knicked up that he still was able to produce nearly a thousand yards on an otherwise pure crap team with a rookie QB, never missing ONE! FREAKING game. If only Slowshon or McGahee could play an entire NFL season, like Bush did. Supposedly injured (according to you) no less. Not seriously of course.
And what about the year before in MIA? 2011? How did he do then?
Was he as you say always "knicked up"?
1086 yards on a pure crap team yet again!
But wait! Let look at his recieving yards as well!
Hes caught nearly 80 balls for almost 600 yards in the air as well.
And never missed a game. But according to you and some article, his production has dipped.
I suppose because he broke his leg in NO and came back from it waay faster than anyone could possibly imagine that your now going to say hes always "Knicked up" again.

Go ahead and explain what you definition of "knicked up" is in regards to the current crop of DEN RBs. And then com,pare it to Reggie Bush' production at anytime.
Well, you do have a point there. But outside of that, if he is so great, how does a team like NO let him walk away? I'll tell you why, because he is hugely overrated.

1) He is a mediocre runner with the ability to for the long run. Yes he has been running better the last 2 years. But he came from a pass first to a run first team. So that was to be expected. He has 21 fumbles in his career..and people b**** about WM and KM (he has 7 in 4 years compared to Bush's 21 in 7) in that aspect.

2) He is hugely overrated as a receiver. Yes he is very fluid at catching the ball, but after that what? I'll tell you what... nothing. Again, very mediocre with the ability to go for big gains time to time. How so? He has a mediocre 7.3 avg even after being in a prolific passing offense. KM in an offense with Orton, Tebow, Manning has an 8.8 avg. Is Bush really that great as a receiver? Even after having averaged less than 7 yards in 3 of his 7 seasons.
KM has never had less than 7.6 in a season.

So you see, Bush is a hugely overrated talent. And considering all the people here that moan about KM it should be taken into consideration. You could also say KM is on the same pace TD wise in both categories. And yes KM does get dinged up. But so does Bush. He has missed 21 of a possible 112 games. That's a lot of missed games for someone that until the last 2 years wasn't a featured back (still shared the ball a lot tough).

I would take a healthy KM in a Manning offense over a healthy Bush with Manning any day of the week. There is a reason Elway talked him after the season.

*Can't remember who but someone said Bush is the closest to a Marshall Faulk in this thread (or another FA thread) ... yeah right!

Lol.. it was you!

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Nailed it. Dude is the closest thing to Marshall Faulk out there, and thats what this offense needs. Just want him to work on his pass pro. Hes not bad at it, but he isnt great either. However, he really has shown in MIA that he can indeed run between the tackles, and be an every down back. Put him with Peyton and this offense, and you literally have a monster offense.
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha Regie Bush and Faulk in the same sentence.


(Wasn't there a rumor he wanted to go to a pass first offense)

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Old 03-12-2013, 10:03 AM   #104
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Cap is all I care about. If you're in full Super Bowl heat, paying a 37 YO QB $20 large a year, yet you outright cut your best player on the DL just to pocket some spare change for Annabel's next botox session? There's not much to be said other than you're one ****ty NFL owner.
Funny argument coming from a conservative. Isn't Bowlen's only obligation to maximize his profit?
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:05 AM   #105
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Funny argument coming from a conservative. Isn't Bowlen's only obligation to maximize his profit?
Completely different. But it's never good business ethics to piss off your consumer.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:07 AM   #106
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Completely different. But it's never good business ethics to piss off your consumer.
Do you think a significant bloc of customers are going to boycott the Broncos if Doom is released? I don't either.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:10 AM   #107
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Funny argument coming from a conservative. Isn't Bowlen's only obligation to maximize his profit?
Come on now. We all know the best NFL owners view their teams as an extension of their penises. Peniseses Or maybe it's Penii.

They're in it to win it, and they don't need the cash because they made it large in a real line of work. NFL ownership is (for most owners) a status symbol.

If we have one who actually needs it for his milk money, we're never going to see the promised land.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:14 AM   #108
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Well, you do have a point there. But outside of that, if he is so great, how does a team like NO let him walk away? I'll tell you why, because he is hugely overrated.

1) He is a mediocre runner with the ability to for the long run. Yes he has been running better the last 2 years. But he came from a pass first to a run first team. So that was to be expected. He has 21 fumbles in his career..and people b**** about WM and KM (he has 7 in 4 years compared to Bush's 21 in 7) in that aspect.

2) He is hugely overrated as a receiver. Yes he is very fluid at catching the ball, but after that what? I'll tell you what... nothing. Again, very mediocre with the ability to go for big gains time to time. How so? He has a mediocre 7.3 avg even after being in a prolific passing offense. KM in an offense with Orton, Tebow, Manning has an 8.8 avg. Is Bush really that great as a receiver? Even after having averaged less than 7 yards in 3 of his 7 seasons.
KM has never had less than 7.6 in a season.

So you see, Bush is a hugely overrated talent. And considering all the people here that moan about KM it should be taken into consideration. You could also say KM is on the same pace TD wise in both categories. And yes KM does get dinged up. But so does Bush. He has missed 21 of a possible 112 games. That's a lot of missed games for someone that until the last 2 years wasn't a featured back (still shared the ball a lot tough).

I would take a healthy KM in a Manning offense over a healthy Bush with Manning any day of the week. There is a reason Elway talked him after the season.

*Can't remember who but someone said Bush is the closest to a Marshall Faulk in this thread (or another FA thread) ... yeah right!



(Wasn't there a rumor he wanted to go to a pass first offense)
Oh jeez, now Bush is overratted.
And Slowshon whos never healthy, and can never get through a single season is a better option.
If those numbers on that MIA team are overratted to you, then you really are on alot of cocaine, man! Bush was the only weapon they had last year. And he played knicked up, all year, and produced. Game in and game out, on a pure dog piss team. Never complained about his injuries, never gave up on his teammates, or coaches. Ran iside. Ran outside. Caught balls. (When their rookie QB got it to him!) Bush did it all, and he did it all year when opposing teams knew he was getting the ball, and there was nobody else on the team but him.

All RBs get knicked up. All of em. Steven Jackson is always knicked up. Its the nature of the position. Its a brutal position, and they take on a ton of hits and tackles.
However, its how they produce when they are knicked up that matters. Its what they do when they break their leg and how they recover that matters.
And Bush is not overratted in that dept. The guy produces.
I never advocated getting Bush. I just have a sneaking suspicion that hes on DEN's radar, and its because he fits the Manning offense in that Faulk type of role.

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Old 03-12-2013, 10:15 AM   #109
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Do you think a significant bloc of customers are going to boycott the Broncos if Doom is released? I don't either.
No, the boycott starts when we exit the PM years with no trophy in hand shortly after the best defense we've had in ages dismantles itself for greener pastures.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:16 AM   #110
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Come on now. We all know the best NFL owners view their teams as an extension of their penises. Peniseses Or maybe it's Penii.

They're in it to win it, and they don't need the cash because they made it large in a real line of work. NFL ownership is (for most owners) a status symbol.

If we have one who actually needs it for his milk money, we're never going to see the promised land.
If you look at the teams that are successful year in and year out, most of them are "cheap" in the sense that they are very selective when doling out big contracts and primarily build through low cost draft picks. Hell, I think a year or two ago Green Bay literally did not sign one free agent.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:19 AM   #111
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No, the boycott starts when we exit the PM years with no trophy in hand shortly after the best defense we've had in ages dismantles itself for greener pastures.
No trophy? What a ride!
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:20 AM   #112
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Do you think a significant bloc of customers are going to boycott the Broncos if Doom is released? I don't either.
No but there will be alot of disappointed fans when manning retires and there's no trophy. The whole point of an offseason in a superbowl run is to get better regardless of price during that time. Seems like its downgrading positions. Mcgahee > mendenhall. Dumervil > freeney.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:20 AM   #113
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If you look at the teams that are successful year in and year out, most of them are "cheap" in the sense that they are very selective when doling out big contracts and primarily build through low cost draft picks. Hell, I think a year or two ago Green Bay literally did not sign one free agent.
Makes sense when you build up the right way, over the long term. But we threw $60 mil at a 3 year window. The "right way" is no longer an option.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:22 AM   #114
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No, the boycott starts when we exit the PM years with no trophy in hand shortly after the best defense we've had in ages dismantles itself for greener pastures.
Deleted the other post? Anyway, the Broncos have a consecutive sell out streak going back decades. No one is going to boycott if Denver fails to win a SB with Manning (not in any significant numbers, at any rate). Additionally, the "selling out for the short-term" argument only works if Tebow goes on to be a huge success elsewhere. Otherwise, we were treading water anyway with no legitimate chance to win a title and no chance to draft a savior (not picking high enough in 2012, no franchise QB available in 2013). Manning gives a chance where we would not have had one otherwise (again, unless you believe we had a legit shot with Tebow).
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:23 AM   #115
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If you look at the teams that are successful year in and year out, most of them are "cheap" in the sense that they are very selective when doling out big contracts and primarily build through low cost draft picks. Hell, I think a year or two ago Green Bay literally did not sign one free agent.
And GB was one and done. Giants lost keys players cause they were cheap. Didnt make the playoffs. Saints did the same thing. Ravens broke the bank to keep their key SB piece in place. Patriots have been cheap. They haven't won a superbowl in years. Maybe if they splurged a bit on a couple expensive players they wouldve won a few more?

GB has time to watch low cost draft picks develop cause Rogers isn't old. Manning is.

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Old 03-12-2013, 10:26 AM   #116
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Makes sense when you build up the right way, over the long term. But we threw $60 mil at a 3 year window. The "right way" is no longer an option.
Exactly. This is 2 different approaches. We aren't in the build through the draft approach right now. We were told Plan A was to win now at all costs. Bowlen isn't young. Manning wasn't brought here to watch rookies develop.

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Old 03-12-2013, 10:27 AM   #117
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Oh jeez, now Bush is overratted.
And Slowshon whos never healthy, and can never get through a single season is a better option.
If those numbers on that MIA team are overratted to you, then you really are on alot of cocaine, man! Bush was the only weapon they had last year. And he played knicked up, all year, and produced. Game in and game out, on a pure dog piss team. Never complained about his injuries, never gave up on his teammates, or coaches. Ran iside. Ran outside. Caught balls. (When their rookie QB got it to him!) Bush did it all, and he did it all year when opposing teams knew he was getting the ball, and there was nobody else on the team but him.

All RBs get knicked up. All of em. Steven Jackson is always knicked up. Its the nature of the position. Its a brutal position, and they take on a ton of hits and tackles.
However, its how they produce when they are knicked up that matters. Its what they do when they break their leg and how they recover that matters.
And Bush is not overratted in that dept. The guy produces.
I never advocated getting Bush. I just have a sneaking suspicion that hes on DEN's radar, and its because he fits the Manning offense in that Faulk type of role.
Agree with that. That's why I want us to go after SJ and precisely why Bush shouldn't be a target. He was a small frame, one that makes him a liability blocking for Manning. Lets say we sign Bush, get rid either of KM or WM. Now, the one that stayed gets injured... you want a backfield of Bush/Hillman/Ball protecting Manning in passing situations?
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:32 AM   #118
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Deleted the other post?
No idea what you're talking about.

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Anyway, the Broncos have a consecutive sell out streak going back decades. No one is going to boycott if Denver fails to win a SB with Manning (not in any significant numbers, at any rate). Additionally, the "selling out for the short-term" argument only works if Tebow goes on to be a huge success elsewhere.
What the eff are you talking about? Solid defenses make for solid seasons every year, elite QB or no. See Ravens, Baltimore. Steelers, Pittsburgh, 49ers, SanFran, 2011 Denver Broncos. Tebow may not have turned out to be the answer, but we didn't have to watch the team slowly disassemble itself to keep him. It's a lot easier to find a solid QB that can lead your elite defense deep into the playoffs than it is to wait for an Elite QB to fall from the sky. And if that happens, his chances of championships are even greater with a defense behind him in his younger (cheaper) years. See Patriots, New England.

As far as the sellout streak goes, I'm guessing the two rough offseasons before the 2011 Tebow miracle cut the waiting list in at least half. I don't think it would've survived another full Orton season.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:33 AM   #119
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If he takes a paycut to stay with us then yes... I could see him making less than 10 mil. But if he hits the open market, he will make more money than Avril, Kruger or any of the other DE/ hybrid OLB's.
So according to you Doom is going to get 10 million dollars every year of his contract in the open market then?
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:37 AM   #120
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So according to you Doom is going to get 10 million dollars every year of his contract in the open market then?
nope... but surely his next 2 years. How they structure his contract I have no clue. But I can see him making for sure more than 20 mil in his first 2 years... and a 20 mill guarantee for the duration of the contract (which I think will go for about 4-5 years). He is only 29. People acting like his is an old dino that is Abraham and Freeney are nuts!
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:38 AM   #121
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What the eff are you talking about? Solid defenses make for solid seasons every year, elite QB or no. See Ravens, Baltimore. Steelers, Pittsburgh, 49ers, SanFran, 2011 Denver Broncos. Tebow may not have turned out to be the answer, but we didn't have to watch the team slowly disassemble itself to keep him. It's a lot easier to find a solid QB that can lead your elite defense deep into the playoffs than it is to wait for an Elite QB to fall from the sky. And if that happens, his chances of championships are even greater with a defense behind him in his younger (cheaper) years. See Patriots, New England.
Losing Doom doesn't mean that the defense is going to take a significant step back. With the exception of the QB position, football isn't like basketball where one player is the difference between a quality team and a poor team. It all depends on what kind of plan the front office has in mind to replace him. Is there risk with that approach? Sure. But I prefer to see what they have in mind before I start the hand-wringing.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:43 AM   #122
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Losing Doom doesn't mean that the defense is going to take a significant step back. With the exception of the QB position, football isn't like basketball where one player is the difference between a quality team and a poor team. It all depends on what kind of plan the front office has in mind to replace him. Is there risk with that approach? Sure. But I prefer to see what they have in mind before I start the hand-wringing.
I think this is where we disagree in the approach of looking at this. IMO losing a key player creates a domino effect. It makes an offense key in on Von now instead of having to worry about the other side. That equals less production of Von. It also creates a burden on the CBs having to worry about a QB who's not being rushed into bad throws. QBs have more time for progressions. It has an effect on Woodyards production. Maybe if there were a replacement who's going to give you 12-15 sacks with multiple FFs. Ayers a rookie and Freeney is not that answer.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:52 AM   #123
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Makes sense when you build up the right way, over the long term. But we threw $60 mil at a 3 year window. The "right way" is no longer an option.
Yeah I can't think of any other Super Bowl contenders that are paying their franchise QB big $$$...
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:55 AM   #124
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And GB was one and done. Giants lost keys players cause they were cheap. Didnt make the playoffs. Saints did the same thing. Ravens broke the bank to keep their key SB piece in place. Patriots have been cheap. They haven't won a superbowl in years. Maybe if they splurged a bit on a couple expensive players they wouldve won a few more?

GB has time to watch low cost draft picks develop cause Rogers isn't old. Manning is.
So the best franchises in the league all did it wrong. Great argument!
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:00 AM   #125
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So the best franchises in the league all did it wrong. Great argument!
Were any of them in a win now mode with their aging QB?
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