HUGO CHAVEZ DEAD! - Page 2 - The Orange Mane

mhgaffney · 03-14-2013, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Chavez was a narcissistic, ideological boob interested only in his own power, like so many little petty dictators who have come before him.

Your understanding of who Chavez was is colored by your reliance on the US media for your information.

You seem completely unaware of this fact.

I'd call that naive - - at a minimum.

MHG

W*GS · 03-14-2013, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

Your understanding of who Chavez was is colored by your reliance on the US media for your information.

No.

Under Chavez, violence in Venezuela soared. The murder rate quadrupled.

Explain.

Rohirrim · 03-14-2013, 03:51 PM

Chavez obliterated a Venezuela that had built a thriving middle class and was the envy of its neighbors. Now it's a smoking ruin.

In Caracas, the country’s capital, the results of his fitful campaign are plain to see. For decades, as one of the world’s most oil-rich nations, Venezuela had a growing middle class, with an impressively high standard of living. Hundreds of thousands of immigrants from the rest of Latin America and from Europe helped give Caracas a reputation as one of the region’s most attractive and modern cities. That city is barely perceptible today. After decades of neglect, poverty, corruption, and social upheaval, Caracas has deteriorated beyond all measure. It has one of the highest homicide rates in the world; last year, in a city of three million, an estimated thirty-six hundred people were murdered, or about one every two hours. The murder rate in Venezuela has tripled since Chávez took office.

Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...#ixzz2NYcLlDoH

Arkie · 03-14-2013, 03:51 PM

The murder rate doubled under Chavez. That's strange because crime is usually caused by poverty which went down drastically. It seems the people were better off under Chavez as long as they weren't murdered.

mhgaffney · 03-14-2013, 07:54 PM

I see comments by Americans. Here is an epitaph to Chavez by a Venezuelan.

Judging Chavez by US economic standards cannot capture the importance of what Chavez meant to Venezuela. He spent oil money to make the lives of Venezuelans better.

From your posts you clearly believe the oil money should have gone into the bank accounts of the plutocracy.

Americans are not competent to evaluate someone like Chavez.

MHG

MARCH 14, 2013

The Bolivarian Tsunami
Chavez: the Man and His Dream
by JOSÉ PERTIERRA

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/03/14/52380/

Missouribronc · 03-14-2013, 09:19 PM

I like how baseball players and their families disappeared without any police investigation during his reign....

What a piece of **** this guy was.

cutthemdown · 03-14-2013, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

I see comments by Americans. Here is an epitaph to Chavez by a Venezuelan.

Judging Chavez by US economic standards cannot capture the importance of what Chavez meant to Venezuela. He spent oil money to make the lives of Venezuelans better.

From your posts you clearly believe the oil money should have gone into the bank accounts of the plutocracy.

Americans are not competent to evaluate someone like Chavez.

MHG

MARCH 14, 2013

The Bolivarian Tsunami
Chavez: the Man and His Dream
by JOSÉ PERTIERRA

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/03/14/52380/

lol he destroyed the oil industry in his country.

Rohirrim · 03-15-2013, 06:51 AM

Read the New Yorker article, Gaffo. If you have the guts. No propaganda. Just the facts from the streets of Caracas. Having had a decades long friendship with some Venezuelans, including a relationship with a beautiful woman from Caracas, I know how they feel about Chavez. He was an ignorant thug. I'm not surprised that Oliver Stone thinks he was a hero. Stone is one of the most deluded people I've ever seen. Well, next to you, Gaffo.

W*GS · 03-15-2013, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Read the New Yorker article, Gaffo. If you have the guts. No propaganda. Just the facts from the streets of Caracas. Having had a decades long friendship with some Venezuelans, including a relationship with a beautiful woman from Caracas, I know how they feel about Chavez. He was an ignorant thug. I'm not surprised that Oliver Stone thinks he was a hero. Stone is one of the most deluded people I've ever seen. Well, next to you, Gaffo.

Basically, Chavez gutted Venezuela.

No wonder gaffe likes him - gaffe wants to gut America too.

mhgaffney · 03-15-2013, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Read the New Yorker article, Gaffo. If you have the guts. No propaganda. Just the facts from the streets of Caracas. Having had a decades long friendship with some Venezuelans, including a relationship with a beautiful woman from Caracas, I know how they feel about Chavez. He was an ignorant thug. I'm not surprised that Oliver Stone thinks he was a hero. Stone is one of the most deluded people I've ever seen. Well, next to you, Gaffo.

The people of Venezuela elected this man four times by wide margins -- despite repeated coup attempts by the CIA.

Do you believe in democracy, Ro? Evidently not.

Some of the criticisms are no doubt true. But the important fact is that Chavez changed the balance of power -- by shifting resources to the poor.

You would prefer to keep the rich oligarchs in power? Evidently you stand with the 1%.

cutthemdown · 03-15-2013, 02:16 PM

Chavez like many socialist leaders only acted like he was for the poor. They do it when there are so many poor people you can win an election with them. Then you set out to make the poor a little less poor, and the middle class also poor. Now you have even a bigger group of voters. Meanwhile you sieze the upper classes money and land forever cementing your country as a country of not super poor, but just poor. So its looks like you poor are better off then Brazils poor. In reality though your country now has no dream of anyone becoming rich. Your stick being sort of poor, but with healthcare for the rest of your life.

cutthemdown · 03-15-2013, 02:22 PM

Hell yeah people voted for him. He took land and gave it to poor people. That works really well if you have a huge poor society. But in the end you end up with farmland not being properly used. Oil fields not pumping oil to capacity etc etc.

What that country needs is a President who says the state is getting out of the oil business. Get the big oil in there and get the production ramped up. Talk to brazil they are doing well. Partner with them and become a real leader of S America instead of a pawn for some sort of Cuban style life of misery.

Sure tax the hell out of them and make your money. But get out of industries you aren't good at.

Rohirrim · 03-15-2013, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

The people of Venezuela elected this man four times by wide margins -- despite repeated coup attempts by the CIA.

Do you believe in democracy, Ro? Evidently not.

Some of the criticisms are no doubt true. But the important fact is that Chavez changed the balance of power -- by shifting resources to the poor.

You would prefer to keep the rich oligarchs in power? Evidently you stand with the 1%.

Yeah. The Iranian Revolutionary Guard tend to win their "elections" by 90% too.

mhgaffney · 03-17-2013, 08:56 AM

You clowns believe the perceptions about Venezuela trumpeted in the US media. Perceptions are NOT facts.

Herre are the facts:

Chavez won the 2006 election with -- not 90% -- but 63% of the vote -- a large majority. His opponent received 37%

Jimmy Carter studied the election and said it was fair.
http://www.cartercenter.org/resource...a_2006_eng.pdf

W*GS · 03-17-2013, 09:38 AM

Too bad gaffe didn't have the balls to move to Venezuela and get to experience Chavez firsthand.

To certain folks, Chavez had the same appeal as Che or Castro or Mao or Stalin. Certain idiot folks that hate human beings. Like gaffe.

03-17-2013, 08:56 AM	#39
mhgaffney Ring of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 9,776	You clowns believe the perceptions about Venezuela trumpeted in the US media. Perceptions are NOT facts. Herre are the facts: Chavez won the 2006 election with -- not 90% -- but 63% of the vote -- a large majority. His opponent received 37% Jimmy Carter studied the election and said it was fair. http://www.cartercenter.org/resource...a_2006_eng.pdf Last edited by mhgaffney; 03-17-2013 at 09:10 AM..

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03-14-2013, 03:51 PM	#28
Rohirrim Partisan Human Cannonball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater Posts: 48,849	Chavez obliterated a Venezuela that had built a thriving middle class and was the envy of its neighbors. Now it's a smoking ruin. In Caracas, the country’s capital, the results of his fitful campaign are plain to see. For decades, as one of the world’s most oil-rich nations, Venezuela had a growing middle class, with an impressively high standard of living. Hundreds of thousands of immigrants from the rest of Latin America and from Europe helped give Caracas a reputation as one of the region’s most attractive and modern cities. That city is barely perceptible today. After decades of neglect, poverty, corruption, and social upheaval, Caracas has deteriorated beyond all measure. It has one of the highest homicide rates in the world; last year, in a city of three million, an estimated thirty-six hundred people were murdered, or about one every two hours. The murder rate in Venezuela has tripled since Chávez took office. Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...#ixzz2NYcLlDoH

03-14-2013, 03:51 PM	#29
Arkie Ring of Famer Gggggrrrrrr rrrraaaahhh Arrrrhhhn. Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 9,084 Adopt-a-Bronco: Quinton Carter	The murder rate doubled under Chavez. That's strange because crime is usually caused by poverty which went down drastically. It seems the people were better off under Chavez as long as they weren't murdered.

03-14-2013, 07:54 PM	#30
mhgaffney Ring of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 9,776	I see comments by Americans. Here is an epitaph to Chavez by a Venezuelan. Judging Chavez by US economic standards cannot capture the importance of what Chavez meant to Venezuela. He spent oil money to make the lives of Venezuelans better. From your posts you clearly believe the oil money should have gone into the bank accounts of the plutocracy. Americans are not competent to evaluate someone like Chavez. MHG MARCH 14, 2013 The Bolivarian Tsunami Chavez: the Man and His Dream by JOSÉ PERTIERRA http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/03/14/52380/

03-14-2013, 09:19 PM	#31
Missouribronc Ring of Famer New to the Forum Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,529 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	I like how baseball players and their families disappeared without any police investigation during his reign.... What a piece of **** this guy was.

03-15-2013, 06:51 AM	#33
Rohirrim Partisan Human Cannonball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater Posts: 48,849	Read the New Yorker article, Gaffo. If you have the guts. No propaganda. Just the facts from the streets of Caracas. Having had a decades long friendship with some Venezuelans, including a relationship with a beautiful woman from Caracas, I know how they feel about Chavez. He was an ignorant thug. I'm not surprised that Oliver Stone thinks he was a hero. Stone is one of the most deluded people I've ever seen. Well, next to you, Gaffo.

03-15-2013, 02:16 PM	#36
cutthemdown A verbis ad verbera Zimm to HOF Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Long Beach Posts: 32,505	Chavez like many socialist leaders only acted like he was for the poor. They do it when there are so many poor people you can win an election with them. Then you set out to make the poor a little less poor, and the middle class also poor. Now you have even a bigger group of voters. Meanwhile you sieze the upper classes money and land forever cementing your country as a country of not super poor, but just poor. So its looks like you poor are better off then Brazils poor. In reality though your country now has no dream of anyone becoming rich. Your stick being sort of poor, but with healthcare for the rest of your life.

03-15-2013, 02:22 PM	#37
cutthemdown A verbis ad verbera Zimm to HOF Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Long Beach Posts: 32,505	Hell yeah people voted for him. He took land and gave it to poor people. That works really well if you have a huge poor society. But in the end you end up with farmland not being properly used. Oil fields not pumping oil to capacity etc etc. What that country needs is a President who says the state is getting out of the oil business. Get the big oil in there and get the production ramped up. Talk to brazil they are doing well. Partner with them and become a real leader of S America instead of a pawn for some sort of Cuban style life of misery. Sure tax the hell out of them and make your money. But get out of industries you aren't good at.

03-17-2013, 09:38 AM	#40
W*GS Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Earth Posts: 19,511	Too bad gaffe didn't have the balls to move to Venezuela and get to experience Chavez firsthand. To certain folks, Chavez had the same appeal as Che or Castro or Mao or Stalin. Certain idiot folks that hate human beings. Like gaffe.