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Old 03-05-2013, 09:08 AM   #126
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And they got a Super Bowl Ring for a bargain price. Players are compensated retroactively all the time. Flacco's never had a top-tier contract, he deserves one, and he got one.
Ya I think that's how Dumervil got his amount. He performed great on a 4th round contract and he got compensated for those performances.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:17 AM   #127
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Ya I think that's how Dumervil got his amount. He performed great on a 4th round contract and he got compensated for those performances.
It's just the way things are, and it all generally evens out in the wash. Elvis outperformed his rookie contract, and he hasn't performed up to his current one. Overall though we've pretty much gotten what we've paid for.

I think the same will be true with Flacco.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:35 AM   #128
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Flacco's real deal is basically 3 years $52m as $10m of his year 3 money isn't guaranteed and will likely be renegotiated at that point.
Thanks for the numbers. I think after this run to the Super Bowl he's earned the 3 year contract. The Ravens should have been in the SB the previous year. While people mention Moore this and that, Flacco got it done.
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:50 PM   #129
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that should keep is monster ego in check.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:55 PM   #130
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From the article I linked above, further supporting the argument I've been making:
A cursory glance at Flacco's year this season and his past show this:

He threw 2 more TDs. Two less INTs. His TD% was up. His INT% was down. He threw more yards. He threw for a higher Y/A. His overall QB rating had gone up. Doesn't sound like regression unless you're a complete dumbass.

Flacco is a legit talent. Baltimore this year was more about offense than it was defense. It even ranked higher in terms of points (10th vs. 12th). People keep saying the latter was more important, but Flacco overcame two 30+ point games in the postseason. Yeah. That's some smashmouth ratbirds-D, am I right? Flacco carried Baltimore the past three offseasons. That's a lot more than Manning, perennial playoff choke-artist, has to say (considering, he played horribly the entire postseason when he finally got a ring, just being particular about it and all).

For the past three years Baltimore has been transitioning to being a more balanced team. It's why they won the Superbowl, because an aged, super slow Ray Lewis sure as hell isn't going to do it by himself. And Flacco has been a pretty integral part of that -- Baltimore could have made the Superbowl any one of the past three postseason; Denver just got the short end of the stick this past postseason, unfortunately.

He doesn't throw up huge numbers, but then again, why would he? Baltimore only recently dropped their horrendous offensive coordinator and they still operate a balanced team. Flacco isn't Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers, but he's pretty damn good. And the past three postseason -- not just this one -- he displayed some pretty serious chops. I think this thread is embarrassing. I wish we could drop some dollars on a QB who wins the games that matter most, too.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:28 PM   #131
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Who do you want to be our quarterback in 2012.

Peyton Manning
*WARHORSE*, Aftermath, alkemical, alpine, Ambiguous, Archie, Arkansas Bronco, Arkie, Asso Wilson, Atwater His Ass, ayjackson, bendog, Blart, Blueflame, BoiseBluTurf, bombay, bowtown, bronco610, broncocalijohn, Broncojef, BroncoLifer, BroncoMatt, BroncoSojia, Broncos_OTM, Bronkota, campocorto, chawknz, chickennob2, ColoradoBuff, Cpntrips, crawdad, Crushaholic, cutback, cutthemdown, DarkHorse30, DBroncos4life, DENVERDUI55, DenverDynamite, DomCasual, Dos Rios, Drunk idiot kicker, Drunk Monkey, Drunken.Broncoholic, Dukes, Durango, El Minion, elsid13, Endy, enjolras, errand, extralife, Fedaykin, flynzebra, Frisian, ghwk, gmp, GoBroncos DownUnder, GoHAM, gotfredson, GreeleyGrizzley, Gutless Drunk, hkbroncos, hookemhess, Houshyamama, Hulamau, Jack1118son, Jason7730, JCMElway, JCsuperstar, Jekyll15Hyde, kamakazi_kal, Kaylore, KevinJames, Kid A, Killericon, KipCorrington25, lod01, lvbronco, maher_tyler, Majik, maven, mellow mood, Mightysmurf, NFLBRONCO, oubronco, peacepipe, pokenation, Prodigal19, Que, randomtask, Ratboy, razorwire77, rdskier, Requiem, Rohirrim, Rolandftw, Ronnie Tsunami, Sassy, scannon, Schism, Shananahan, Shoemaker, SimonFletcher73, Sinedog, SJ Bronco, Slade, SonOfLe-loLang, SouthStndJunkie, spdirty, Spider, SpringStein, Stagger Lee, STBumpkin, Steve Sewell, stoxman, StugotsIII, Taco John, TheDave, theedge111, thevance_82, Tim, TonyR, Turd_Ferguson, v2micca, vancejohnson82, yerner, Ziggy
127 72.57%

Tim Tebow
55CrushEm, Aardvark, Agamemnon, BabyTO, Broncbow, BroncoBeavis, Broncobiv, broncogary, Broncoman13, Casper Bronco, Chris, Cito Pelon, ColoradoDarin, crazyhorse, DAN_BRONCO_FAN, Darkdoc, db56, dbfan21, Dedhed, Doggcow, El Jué, go_broncos, GreatBronco16, HighCountryBronco, jacob2125, Jay3, Jesterhole, jet19, jmz313, joe9999, lcbronco, lonestar, MacGruder, Marshall Dumervil, meangene, MileHighMagic, montrose, mustangtoby, myMind, NUB, rbackfactory80, sisterhellfyre, SoCalBronco, TD30, The Moops, TheFullTebow, winstoncup bronco, ~Crash~
48 27.43%

Look at the posters that are for Flacco's contract and see what they have in common.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:16 AM   #132
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Who do you want to be our quarterback in 2012.

Peyton Manning
*WARHORSE*, Aftermath, alkemical, alpine, Ambiguous, Archie, Arkansas Bronco, Arkie, Asso Wilson, Atwater His Ass, ayjackson, bendog, Blart, Blueflame, BoiseBluTurf, bombay, bowtown, bronco610, broncocalijohn, Broncojef, BroncoLifer, BroncoMatt, BroncoSojia, Broncos_OTM, Bronkota, campocorto, chawknz, chickennob2, ColoradoBuff, Cpntrips, crawdad, Crushaholic, cutback, cutthemdown, DarkHorse30, DBroncos4life, DENVERDUI55, DenverDynamite, DomCasual, Dos Rios, Drunk idiot kicker, Drunk Monkey, Drunken.Broncoholic, Dukes, Durango, El Minion, elsid13, Endy, enjolras, errand, extralife, Fedaykin, flynzebra, Frisian, ghwk, gmp, GoBroncos DownUnder, GoHAM, gotfredson, GreeleyGrizzley, Gutless Drunk, hkbroncos, hookemhess, Houshyamama, Hulamau, Jack1118son, Jason7730, JCMElway, JCsuperstar, Jekyll15Hyde, kamakazi_kal, Kaylore, KevinJames, Kid A, Killericon, KipCorrington25, lod01, lvbronco, maher_tyler, Majik, maven, mellow mood, Mightysmurf, NFLBRONCO, oubronco, peacepipe, pokenation, Prodigal19, Que, randomtask, Ratboy, razorwire77, rdskier, Requiem, Rohirrim, Rolandftw, Ronnie Tsunami, Sassy, scannon, Schism, Shananahan, Shoemaker, SimonFletcher73, Sinedog, SJ Bronco, Slade, SonOfLe-loLang, SouthStndJunkie, spdirty, Spider, SpringStein, Stagger Lee, STBumpkin, Steve Sewell, stoxman, StugotsIII, Taco John, TheDave, theedge111, thevance_82, Tim, TonyR, Turd_Ferguson, v2micca, vancejohnson82, yerner, Ziggy
127 72.57%

Tim Tebow
55CrushEm, Aardvark, Agamemnon, BabyTO, Broncbow, BroncoBeavis, Broncobiv, broncogary, Broncoman13, Casper Bronco, Chris, Cito Pelon, ColoradoDarin, crazyhorse, DAN_BRONCO_FAN, Darkdoc, db56, dbfan21, Dedhed, Doggcow, El Jué, go_broncos, GreatBronco16, HighCountryBronco, jacob2125, Jay3, Jesterhole, jet19, jmz313, joe9999, lcbronco, lonestar, MacGruder, Marshall Dumervil, meangene, MileHighMagic, montrose, mustangtoby, myMind, NUB, rbackfactory80, sisterhellfyre, SoCalBronco, TD30, The Moops, TheFullTebow, winstoncup bronco, ~Crash~
48 27.43%

Look at the posters that are for Flacco's contract and see what they have in common.
How did I not vote in that poll?
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:40 AM   #133
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A cursory glance at Flacco's year this season and his past show this:

He threw 2 more TDs. Two less INTs. His TD% was up. His INT% was down. He threw more yards. He threw for a higher Y/A. His overall QB rating had gone up. Doesn't sound like regression unless you're a complete dumbass.
Maybe understand the overall point being make, and read the whole article instead of taking a "cursory glance", before calling people "dumbass". The "regressing" comment was made based on QBR which you will see dropped in 2012 vs. 2011 in the link below.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/...252/joe-flacco

But the overall point is that Flacco has been pretty much a league average QB in the regular season over his career. And these numbers show this.

I'm not a Flacco hater by any stretch. We both have the same alma mater for crying out loud, if anything I'm biased in his favor. I'm just pointing out reality. The guy hasn't been a special QB in the regular season throughout his career by any stretch. He had a great postseason this year and has been a pretty good postseason QB throughout his career. But the legend of Joe Flacco that some of you are creating because the Ravens won the Super Bowl and he got this huge contract is a bit much. Like I keep saying, let's see what he does this upcoming season. I'm betting he's more Eli Manning than Aaron Rodgers. Not that that's a bad thing.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:41 AM   #134
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Look at the posters that are for Flacco's contract and see what they have in common.
If that doesn't say a lot then I don't know what does!
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:39 PM   #135
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Maybe understand the overall point being make, and read the whole article instead of taking a "cursory glance", before calling people "dumbass". The "regressing" comment was made based on QBR which you will see dropped in 2012 vs. 2011 in the link below.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/...252/joe-flacco

But the overall point is that Flacco has been pretty much a league average QB in the regular season over his career. And these numbers show this.

I'm not a Flacco hater by any stretch. We both have the same alma mater for crying out loud, if anything I'm biased in his favor. I'm just pointing out reality. The guy hasn't been a special QB in the regular season throughout his career by any stretch. He had a great postseason this year and has been a pretty good postseason QB throughout his career. But the legend of Joe Flacco that some of you are creating because the Ravens won the Super Bowl and he got this huge contract is a bit much. Like I keep saying, let's see what he does this upcoming season. I'm betting he's more Eli Manning than Aaron Rodgers. Not that that's a bad thing.
You're a dumbass if you think QBR means anything because it clearly does not. ESPN's totally made up, no-formula rating system is completely off the mark? Who could have guessed. And nobody should ever hang a debate on a rating system, QBR or passer, anyway. John Elway looks like crap if you do that, but anyone who watches this game knows there are things a little more important than a pretty stat line.


And yes, I'd take Flacco over Manning right now. He doesn't have one foot already out the door and he doesn't blow it in the playoffs. Eight one and dones? Five of those at home? Are you kidding? I like Manning and consider him arguably the finest pure passer ever, but he is a dud in the playoffs. Very easy choice, given the circumstances. (Not that QB is even the most important player on the team right now, that clearly goes to Miller at this point.)

Also, the people who voted Tebow, what's wrong with them? Last I checked Tebow totaled almost 400 yards of offense, three TDs and no turnovers to win a playoff game. Manning tore it the hell up in regular season, as he usually does, and then choked hard and threw a game-ending INT to kill the playoff run of a very, very strong Denver team. Manning is the superior quarterback, obviously no question. But what does Manning, who chokes in the playoffs and plays poorly in bad weather, have to bring to Denver, Colorado...?

You have no idea how badly I'm hoping Osweiler's upside comes to fruition...
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:56 PM   #136
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You're a dumbass if you think QBR means anything because it clearly does not. ESPN's totally made up, no-formula rating system is completely off the mark? Who could have guessed. And nobody should ever hang a debate on a rating system, QBR or passer, anyway. John Elway looks like crap if you do that, but anyone who watches this game knows there are things a little more important than a pretty stat line.


And yes, I'd take Flacco over Manning right now. He doesn't have one foot already out the door and he doesn't blow it in the playoffs. Eight one and dones? Five of those at home? Are you kidding? I like Manning and consider him arguably the finest pure passer ever, but he is a dud in the playoffs. Very easy choice, given the circumstances. (Not that QB is even the most important player on the team right now, that clearly goes to Miller at this point.)

Also, the people who voted Tebow, what's wrong with them? Last I checked Tebow totaled almost 400 yards of offense, three TDs and no turnovers to win a playoff game. Manning tore it the hell up in regular season, as he usually does, and then choked hard and threw a game-ending INT to kill the playoff run of a very, very strong Denver team. Manning is the superior quarterback, obviously no question. But what does Manning, who chokes in the playoffs and plays poorly in bad weather, have to bring to Denver, Colorado...?

You have no idea how badly I'm hoping Osweiler's upside comes to fruition...
Your whole post is so bad I don't even know where to begin.

QBR means "nothing"? Stupid. It would be fair to say it doesn't mean "everything", but it doesn't mean "nothing". And it's not just QBR. His stats in general are not remotely elite. I don't know what more to tell you here, it's just a fact.

Flacco over Manning? I'm not aware that was the argument here. I'd only consider Flacco because he's younger, but he's not in the same league as Manning career wise, and never will be.

Tebow? Also not worth discussing. The guy will never be an NFL QB and his career is probably over. Get over it.

Osweiler? Finally, something we agree on?

As for how awful PM is in the postseason, educate yourself with the article linked below.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...or-help/20867/
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:42 PM   #137
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Did Flacco give rahim $20million?
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:58 PM   #138
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Your whole post is so bad I don't even know where to begin.

QBR means "nothing"? Stupid. It would be fair to say it doesn't mean "everything", but it doesn't mean "nothing". And it's not just QBR. His stats in general are not remotely elite. I don't know what more to tell you here, it's just a fact.

Flacco over Manning? I'm not aware that was the argument here. I'd only consider Flacco because he's younger, but he's not in the same league as Manning career wise, and never will be.

Tebow? Also not worth discussing. The guy will never be an NFL QB and his career is probably over. Get over it.

Osweiler? Finally, something we agree on?

As for how awful PM is in the postseason, educate yourself with the article linked below.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...or-help/20867/
QBR just had a player who improved in almost every statistical category listed as "regressing." The same player who so regressed he plays a literally flawless postseason, winning the Superbowl. If QBR isn't stupid, then it is at the very least ****ing horrible at what it supposedly does. But wait, it gets way worse than that...

There is no formula out for QBR.


It is beyond stupid. It is worthless. A fantasy stat that means absolutely nothing.

As for the playoff record. Bro. The Colts had some seriously powerful, SB-contender teams for much of Manning's play there. You know you've got a bad argument if you nitpick the ebb and flow of every single game as if the world is out to get Manning. Yeah, Peyton Manning is the only QB in history to have NFL games swing back and forth on!

Fact: Manning has a 32:21 TD:INT ratio in the postseason. More than 25% of those TDs came courtesy of blowing Denver the hell out. The postseason he won the Superbowl, he threw 3TDs and 7INTs, eventually beating out Sexy Rexy Grossman in the big game. When he played in his second Superbowl, he nuked an evenly matched game by throwing a pick to Tracy Porter. What a boss.

Outside of picking apart crap defenses like Denver's and Kansas City, Peyton Manning looks like a totally different QB in the postseason. How could one argue differently? If he hits a tough defense he has a tendency to choke. If he plays in the cold he chokes. He is a sharp QB, but the dude has some very costly turnovers at the worst of times. (Spotting Baltimore 17-points, if I remember right, being the most recent of flubs, including the game-losing OT interception.)


By comparison, Tom Brady's TD-INT ratio is 42-22 in the postseason. Flacco 19-8. Aaron Rodgers 18-5. Eli Manning 17-8. Mark Sanchez 9-3 (lol).

When you think about the kind of super-high powered offenses Manning had for most of his career, his numbers look even uglier. Of course the worst is just the simple fact he has lost consistently and thoroughly, a sort of repetition of losing which cannot be ignored by playing patty-cake with the NFL gods or making up excuses as to why Vanderjagt missed a field goal (after Jerome Bettis miraculously fumbled it in the first place...). He doesn't even pass the eye test. I've watched the majority of Manning's playoff games and he never plays with the sort of intricate, killer-style he carries in the regular season. This is especially true if he's outside in the weather. A few games of screwing up is a fluke, an entire career of it is a pattern.
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:21 PM   #139
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QBR just had a player who improved in almost every statistical category listed as "regressing." The same player who so regressed he plays a literally flawless postseason, winning the Superbowl. If QBR isn't stupid, then it is at the very least ****ing horrible at what it supposedly does. But wait, it gets way worse than that...

There is no formula out for QBR.


It is beyond stupid. It is worthless. A fantasy stat that means absolutely nothing.

As for the playoff record. Bro. The Colts had some seriously powerful, SB-contender teams for much of Manning's play there. You know you've got a bad argument if you nitpick the ebb and flow of every single game as if the world is out to get Manning. Yeah, Peyton Manning is the only QB in history to have NFL games swing back and forth on!

Fact: Manning has a 32:21 TD:INT ratio in the postseason. More than 25% of those TDs came courtesy of blowing Denver the hell out. The postseason he won the Superbowl, he threw 3TDs and 7INTs, eventually beating out Sexy Rexy Grossman in the big game. When he played in his second Superbowl, he nuked an evenly matched game by throwing a pick to Tracy Porter. What a boss.

Outside of picking apart crap defenses like Denver's and Kansas City, Peyton Manning looks like a totally different QB in the postseason. How could one argue differently? If he hits a tough defense he has a tendency to choke. If he plays in the cold he chokes. He is a sharp QB, but the dude has some very costly turnovers at the worst of times. (Spotting Baltimore 17-points, if I remember right, being the most recent of flubs, including the game-losing OT interception.)


By comparison, Tom Brady's TD-INT ratio is 42-22 in the postseason. Flacco 19-8. Aaron Rodgers 18-5. Eli Manning 17-8. Mark Sanchez 9-3 (lol).

When you think about the kind of super-high powered offenses Manning had for most of his career, his numbers look even uglier. Of course the worst is just the simple fact he has lost consistently and thoroughly, a sort of repetition of losing which cannot be ignored by playing patty-cake with the NFL gods or making up excuses as to why Vanderjagt missed a field goal (after Jerome Bettis miraculously fumbled it in the first place...). He doesn't even pass the eye test. I've watched the majority of Manning's playoff games and he never plays with the sort of intricate, killer-style he carries in the regular season. This is especially true if he's outside in the weather. A few games of screwing up is a fluke, an entire career of it is a pattern.

It's so damn obvious but the stat boys don't seem to get it.

BTW the Pittsburgh game might have been the most embarrassing game he played in the post season not counting the Jets debacle. Pitt was another team he took it to that year in the regular season that was just mentally tougher when the postseason rolled around.
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:42 PM   #140
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Manning was drafted by the last place Colts and couldn't win a playoff game soon enough. He began with three one-and-dones beginning the year after he was drafted. Then he couldn't win the Super Bowl. Tom Brady, on the other hand, had a better team early on, and he didn't have any pressure of high expectations to carry the team. He started off his career by never losing a playoff game during spygate. These first impressions have stuck with both of them. That's why most people don't realize that Manning has a better playoff record and SB record than Brady over the last 7 to 8 years.
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