Combine notes

[DivineLegion]

Originally Posted by Requiem

I've said this about Amerson and Banks. Two corner prospects who I see switching to S in the NFL. I see these guys in the same mold of Antrel Rolle and Malcom Jenkins who ended up having to go the same route to salvage their NFL careers. Both those guys were high picks and I doubt Banks is going to follow suit with them. I could maybe see him going to a desperate team like the Patriots @ the end of round one, but I believe that is his ceiling now as far as position. Banks played S early on in his career and did well there as a freshman.. He looked stiff in the drills, and so did Amerson (to me anyways -- not good hip flippers), despite the latter having a good corner time for the 40.

Banks also had a terrible year and was beat CONSISTENTLY. In three games I watched of him this year I had him down for ~ 20-22 targets, allowing more than 60% of them to be completed and getting burned for 3 touchdowns. He does not have great recovery speed. I don't think his game speed is that great and running a 4.6 only makes scouts wonder more about his next level ability when that was one of his biggest "?" entering the combine.

I've talked to fans from his team who say that he has been nothing of a disappointment and say he is very overrated. 2012 was nothing compared to what he did in 2011 and 2009 in the last half of the season ['09 is where he became a starter at safety]. (Remember him eating Tim Tebow's lunch?) It is nice to run into people who have seen more of him and can give him a non-biased view of his play. Jarius Wright (back in 2011) also was able to get the best of him with his speed and quickness off the line in his best season at CB and Wright was not a high round prospect.

These guys can play corner in a zone scheme, but won't be playing much man to man in the NFL. They have no recovery speed to be press man guys. I just think their skill set transfers better to corner in the NFL. Of course, that is just my personal opinion. I'd be very surprised if either succeeded in man schemes, but that is my evaluation based on their drills and play the last two seasons when it mattered most.

Banks didn't improve this year, he got worse. So did Amerson -- whose standout opportunity against the Vols led to him ****ting the bed completely.

I may be right -- I may be wrong. Only time will tell. I feel good about my board at DB and my assessments of prospects. Nobody here is going to match up the same. I can tell you that I have a guy in my Top 5 at corner who has NOT been mentioned by more than one or two guys here as a legitimate starter at the next level. He played for a big school and had a fantastic year, much better than guys like Banks and Amerson, whom are likely to be higher on people's boards. I want to see players improve each year and get a better grasp for the game, but with those two I just didn't see it.

A lot of people wondered why I traded a decent ship of picks in the OM draft to move up to get Vanderbilt's Casey Hayward at the top of round three last year, but he ended up being a boss baller for the Packers this year. I'm fine with my opinions and it is all right for anybody to disagree. Inferno and I are polar opposite on Elam, and MUG and I have gone back to Broncos forums for a decade discussing certain prospects and for a long time did not agree on much. I was laughed at for advocating backs like MJD and Ray Rice coming out of college because they were small and undersized. Arguably two of the top five backs in the NFL for the past half decade.


That is why I bust my nut early in most drafts and go for guys I think can make an impact right away. I cannot pretend to know and have boards of 500+ prospects to evaluate. I can't sit around waiting trying to take players I have never seen play. I can't just trust other people, I have to feel good enough with my own evaluation to like a player. My board is not McDaniels short, but it is not huge like some posters have said theres are. I am very particular about the people I go after and can assure you that my board will be half the size of most everyone elses. I'm fine with that too.

C'est lallaosidvsdio!

David Amerson at FS is a great idea. He is an awful corner, but give him a chance to read a QB jump a route, and you have the next Ed Reed.



Brilliant!!!

[Requiem]

Not sure what you mean by Slay playing like a wuss. . .?

[pricejj]

Originally Posted by Requiem

...

You're right about not trading a 3rd or 4th round pick to trade up.


There are going to be some quality players in the 3rd and 4th round that could make a major difference for this team. Le'Veon Bell (to replace Lance Ball), Tyrann Matthieu (to be the 4th CB)...just to name a couple.

Though not great with elite prospects, the first 4 rounds are stocked with good football players.

[Mediator12]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Unless somebody disagrees with Med. Mayock loves him some Vaccaro and says he's a top fifteen pick.

If he ran better he might sniff the late first round, but he has no speed. And it shows on film too. He is really good if you keep things simple and give him limited responsibilities. Very consistent that way. But that does NOT make him a late first round talent at safety to me. He has to play all 3 phases well and he does not fit that bill to me at all.

[socalorado]

Originally Posted by pricejj

You're right about not trading a 3rd or 4th round pick to trade up.


There are going to be some quality players in the 3rd and 4th round that could make a major difference for this team. Le'Veon Bell (to replace Lance Ball), Tyrann Matthieu (to be the 4th CB)...just to name a couple.

Though not great with elite prospects, the first 4 rounds are stocked with good football players.

Matthieu is an idiot, not to waste a pick on. Out of the NFL in the blink of an eye. Sounds, looks and acts like an idiot. If it walks like a duck.......
Le'veon Bell yes, yes and yes.

As for Poyer. His incredible ball skills and excellent feet will keep him a top 50 pick. He has really good burst and instincts as well. Just too good.
Also, i dont get the Slay remarks.

[pricejj]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Not sure what you mean by Slay playing like a wuss. . .?

Eh, nevermind. I watched Slay vs. Texas A&M yesterday...guess it's easy for Manziel to make guys backpedal. Not much video out there on him. Slay actually does look to be darn physical, looks good in coverage too, after watching some more video he is def a 2nd round pick.

[Requiem]

Go download that spreadsheet guys! No more having to search all over.

PUT IT ON YA PHONE.

PUT IT ON YOUR WATCH PHONE.

PUT IT ON YOUR CARROT CAKES!!!

[pricejj]

Originally Posted by socalorado

Matthieu is an idiot, not to waste a pick on. Out of the NFL in the blink of an eye. Sounds, looks and acts like an idiot. If it walks like a duck.......

I get that Mathieu was a star at LSU, smoked pot, etc. One thing about the guy is that he is a fighter, a competitor, a good football player. All he has is football. He's been completely embarrassed and forced to sit out placing his whole career in jeopardy, before he even made it to the NFL. Wouldn't mind having him as a 4th or 5th CB, as opposed to carrying a 5th Safety like Jim Leonhard.

I would take him in the 4th round, but I'm sure somebody will take a flyer on him in the 3rd. Maybe having him as a perennial backup, wouldn't be the greatest thing for the locker room. He might lose focus if he doesn't get to see the field very much.

[Requiem]

New England will take him. They took a guy who was going to trial for felony assault after the season ended. Lol.

[pricejj]

Originally Posted by Requiem

New England will take him. They took a guy who was going to trial for felony assault after the season ended. Lol.

So who you going for in the 1st Req? Still Cyprien? I have Cyprien 32-40. Good commentary for the last couple months on the kid. You guys called his rise before it happened.

I really want to reach on a 4.3 CB at #28, but having a hard time justifying that over taking Barrett Jones (or Lacy). Still gotta figure out how to improve the Nickel somehow.

I know you like Kawann Short too. I dropped him down a little. It's tough to figure out what to do there (at 28).

[socalorado]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Go download that spreadsheet guys! No more having to search all over.

PUT IT ON YA PHONE.

PUT IT ON YOUR WATCH PHONE.

PUT IT ON YOUR CARROT CAKES!!!

Look at Syracuse' Thomas Shamwowko's freakin numbers!!
WOW!

[socalorado]

Also, look at B.W. Webb from William and Mary.
Jeez, he helped himself yesterday.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by pricejj

So who you going for in the 1st Req? Still Cyprien? I have Cyprien 32-40. Good commentary for the last couple months on the kid. You guys called his rise before it happened.

I really want to reach on a 4.3 CB at #28, but having a hard time justifying that over taking Barrett Jones (or Lacy). Still gotta figure out how to improve the Nickel somehow.

I know you like Kawann Short too. I dropped him down a little. It's tough to figure out what to do there (at 28).

I want defense. Rhodes/Trufant would be the guys for me if they are there. I like Cyprien in a trade down. I still like Minter.

I love Short, but not in our scheme. What he is best at is not what he would do here.

Do not want any part of a RB at #28.

I think this is gonna be a riduculous draft. a lot of pick swapping and suprises.

[Mediator12]

Originally Posted by pricejj

So who you going for in the 1st Req? Still Cyprien? I have Cyprien 32-40. Good commentary for the last couple months on the kid. You guys called his rise before it happened.

I really want to reach on a 4.3 CB at #28, but having a hard time justifying that over taking Barrett Jones (or Lacy). Still gotta figure out how to improve the Nickel somehow.

I know you like Kawann Short too. I dropped him down a little. It's tough to figure out what to do there (at 28).

It is still way too early to have this conversation with any real validity. Draft boards are still in flux, despite the media driven Internet boards that rely on way too many factors that have just now been answered at INDY like Medicals and Interviews too be accurate whatsoever.

That is why I put together a board of players I like and then start looking at what Others are saying Later. I NEVER look at big boards until 2 weeks from now. I refine my DB evaluations by what the speed numbers, not just 40, but 3 cone and Short Shuttle are after I graded that on tape. If they match I keep the grade, if they do not, then I go back and get even pickier.

[socalorado]

Originally Posted by Mediator12

It is still way too early to have this conversation with any real validity. Draft boards are still in flux, despite the media driven Internet boards that rely on way too many factors that have just now been answered at INDY like Medicals and Interviews too be accurate whatsoever.

That is why I put together a board of players I like and then start looking at what Others are saying Later. I NEVER look at big boards until 2 weeks from now. I refine my DB evaluations by what the speed numbers, not just 40, but 3 cone and Short Shuttle are after I graded that on tape. If they match I keep the grade, if they do not, then I go back and get even pickier.

For example-Trufants hand size is an 8.
I didnt know this until i looked at REQs spreadsheet.
Kinda small, and although it doesnt seem to be an issue considering what i have watched of him, it isnt exactly ideal.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Go download that spreadsheet guys! No more having to search all over.

PUT IT ON YA PHONE.

PUT IT ON YOUR WATCH PHONE.

PUT IT ON YOUR CARROT CAKES!!!

What spreadsheet?

[socalorado]

Originally Posted by Requiem

I want defense. Rhodes/Trufant would be the guys for me if they are there. I like Cyprien in a trade down. I still like Minter.

I love Short, but not in our scheme. What he is best at is not what he would do here.

Do not want any part of a RB at #28.

I think this is gonna be a riduculous draft. a lot of pick swapping and suprises.

Now that the combines done, i think there could be some interesting trades in the 1st. I also think that a QB going in round one just got even more less likely.
As of now i am kinda with you.
Rhodes-Trufant-Te'o
I just think the value and immediate impact are too good to pass up, if they are even there!
Man, i wish DEN had 2 2nd rounders.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

What spreadsheet?

I started a thread that has a Google Doc's link in there where you can get all the times and workout numbers from this years combine. Don't you see it?

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by Mediator12

It is still way too early to have this conversation with any real validity. Draft boards are still in flux, despite the media driven Internet boards that rely on way too many factors that have just now been answered at INDY like Medicals and Interviews too be accurate whatsoever.

That is why I put together a board of players I like and then start looking at what Others are saying Later. I NEVER look at big boards until 2 weeks from now. I refine my DB evaluations by what the speed numbers, not just 40, but 3 cone and Short Shuttle are after I graded that on tape. If they match I keep the grade, if they do not, then I go back and get even pickier.

Yeah. I sat in my office for a few minutes thinking of the best way to respond. It is too early. Don't have a clue who will be there. Just players I think would be good fits for the team based on what i've done so far

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Requiem

I started a thread that has a Google Doc's link in there where you can get all the times and workout numbers from this years combine. Don't you see it?

Nope. Link?

[pricejj]

Originally Posted by Requiem

I want defense. Rhodes/Trufant would be the guys for me if they are there. I like Cyprien in a trade down. I still like Minter.

I have Trufant and Rhodes as top 20. That ain't happening.

I like your line of thinking with Minter and Cyprien (Nickel). Minter's 4.8 is too scary to take a gamble on though. If it was 2012 they could have gotten Bobby Wagner for pennies on the dollar (that stings).

They probably view Quinton Carter and Cyprien as almost the exact same player.

[underrated29]

Rhodes. The answer is always Xavier Rhodes,

[pricejj]

Originally Posted by Mediator12

It is still way too early to have this conversation with any real validity. Draft boards are still in flux, despite the media driven Internet boards that rely on way too many factors that have just now been answered at INDY like Medicals and Interviews too be accurate whatsoever.

That is why I put together a board of players I like and then start looking at what Others are saying Later. I NEVER look at big boards until 2 weeks from now. I refine my DB evaluations by what the speed numbers, not just 40, but 3 cone and Short Shuttle are after I graded that on tape. If they match I keep the grade, if they do not, then I go back and get even pickier.

The only thing left are Pro Days...in which I only have a couple questions. The rest of my board (to #58) is pretty much set. Pro Day forty times aren't going to change my opinion of Te'o or Minter enough to make much of a difference. Most of the other players are who I thought they were.

DB 3 cone's don't matter much to me (whereas DT 3 cone's are extremely important). As long as they can play press-man, have fluid hips, tight coverage on tape, are fierce competitors, put up good tackle and INT numbers, and run <= 4.45, I will consider them in the top 40. Guy's who run in the 4.3's are preferable, but big, physical CB's who run <= 4.45 hold similar value.

That's why guys like Robert Alford and Jamar Taylor make my top 40, whereas Jordan Poyer does not. He's a good player, but he's not physical enough or fast enough to cover guys like Torrey Smith (which I would expect out of a top 40 pick).

[Rohirrim]

Niners have 15 picks? http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...t-and-the-nfl/

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Niners have 15 picks? http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...t-and-the-nfl/

I was just going to post this. It is unreal. I Wiki'd how they got the selections and it is just crazy. Trent Baalke is doing phenomenal there.