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Old 02-18-2013, 07:57 PM   #76
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Does he mentally not grasp the play book, conceptual and physical elements associated with the game at the pro level, or a hard time adjusting to the speed?

Or.. Is he not physically what they had hoped he would be..? I don't understand how he goes from special teamer and back-up limited used LB to competing as our starting Mike..?

Either he shows real promise in practice or we are in serious trouble..if we are going to trot him out there..
I doubt Irving can grasp the playbook. Otherwise, he would have been playing instead of a rookie Trevathan. Irving isn't gonna be the MLB, and they'd be crazy to even try him there.
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:22 PM   #77
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i've said it before and i'll continue to say it. we need a dynamic stud at MLB for this defense to really take off. we improved greatly and did well but our issues at MLB and DB were exposed in the playoffs.
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:44 PM   #78
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With all the depth at DT in this draft, there's a good possibility that the Broncos can get a good MLB prospect at #28 (in other words I think teams will take a DT first, before an ILB, thus sliding the MLB/ILB down in the draft). I'd love Minter but he will be gone.
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:51 PM   #79
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I doubt Irving can grasp the playbook. Otherwise, he would have been playing instead of a rookie Trevathan. Irving isn't gonna be the MLB, and they'd be crazy to even try him there.
Trevathan plays in Nickel because he's probably the Broncos best coverage LB.

Irving was backup MLB until the FO thought it necessary to bring in Brooking to cover in case Mays bombed (which he did). They moved Irving (temporarily) to SAM so he could get some PT...and he started getting some action as the year went on.

Brooking played decently for the Broncos. Irving wouldn't have to do much to duplicate that effort, and could potentially be much better.

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Old 02-18-2013, 09:30 PM   #80
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Trevathan plays in Nickel because he's probably the Broncos best coverage LB.

Irving was backup MLB until the FO thought it necessary to bring in Brooking to cover in case Mays bombed (which he did). They moved Irving (temporarily) to SAM so he could get some PT...and he started getting some action as the year went on.

Brooking played decently for the Broncos. Irving wouldn't have to do much to duplicate that effort, and could potentially be much better.
Irving is totally lost at MLB, he'll never be a MLB in the NFL, he's a decent ST guy at best. If the staff is depending on him and Steven Johnson as MLB's they're some dumb mf'rs. DJ is the best among those three, and they'd be stupid to go into the season with DJ as the best.
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:39 PM   #81
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Irving is totally lost at MLB, he'll never be a MLB in the NFL, he's a decent ST guy at best. If the staff is depending on him and Steven Johnson as MLB's they're some dumb mf'rs. DJ is the best among those three, and they'd be stupid to go into the season with DJ as the best.
I think you're wrong hoss. I bet Irving is the Broncos most improved player in 2013.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:48 PM   #82
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I think you're wrong hoss. I bet Irving is the Broncos most improved player in 2013.
I think he certainly could be. I have no idea how anyone can draw conclusions about his play at MLB, we've hardly seen him play in the middle.
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:11 AM   #83
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Do we have enough cash to sign Wes Welker, Dwight Freeney, Ed Reed, Aqib Talib, Kevin Vickerson and all our draft picks?
Probably only one of them Vickerson as we speak
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:40 AM   #84
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Irving is totally lost at MLB, he'll never be a MLB in the NFL, he's a decent ST guy at best. If the staff is depending on him and Steven Johnson as MLB's they're some dumb mf'rs. DJ is the best among those three, and they'd be stupid to go into the season with DJ as the best.
Irving was his rookie year with no training camp due to the lockout. Word out of Pigeon Valley is that they expect him to play much better there now.
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:32 AM   #85
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I think you're wrong hoss. I bet Irving is the Broncos most improved player in 2013.
It better be "the dream" being most improved
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:09 AM   #86
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Assuming Minter is off the board at #28, Brown or Greene would be ideal in the 2nd round. Like Med said, we can get away with a smaller MLB because of the way we play defense.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:10 AM   #87
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So.. I'm not exactly grasping the issue with Irving. He was injured in college, but returned and continued to play at a high level, and I remember how much Parcells loved Irving.. And he suffered through the lockout as all other rookies did. And what exactly is keeping him from claiming a spot that's a weak link in the defense, and when frankly he has little competition..?
The big question with Nate Irving, other than just grasping the game mentally like all other young players, has been what level of athleticism he's returned to post-car crash.

He wasn't injured in college, he was in a major car accident where he broke a rib which collapsed a lung, separated his shoulder, and had a compound fracture in one leg so severe they had to put it back together with a metal rod. He missed the entire '09 season as a result and was barely cleared to return to football in time for spring practices in 2010. While he played at a high level for college ball post-car accident he was far from the same athletically.

Add the lockout shortened season to that and Irving basically didn't get a real off-season of conditioning (not rehab) until this past off-season. Also, while he weighed in at 240 for the combine he was listed at 231 for much of his college career and packed on the extra pounds leading into the combine, not the best way to develop real functional strength.

He's basically had to have his body re-built into NFL condition by the Broncos training staff, and that training staff was completely overhauled last off-season, so it's not like he's had a ton of continuity. Pre-injury Irving was considered a very athletic sideline to sideline MLB, post injury he ran a 4.74 40 yard dash at his pro day. Those two traits aren't always mutually exclusive, but they generally are. This isn't a Greg Jones where everyone knew he was a downhill guy. Irving had great range as a RS sophomore and then suddenly was an in the box type as a senior (losing the junior year to injury). The Broncos gamble on him is that he can return to that sophomore level athletically given some time while still maturing mentally.

I'd be all for giving Irving a shot if a better MLB doesn't fall to us, but if someone like Manti Te'o falls to us in the first we'd be stupid not to jump all over him. Locking up a three down starter at MLB would be a game changer for our defense.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:19 AM   #88
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The big question with Nate Irving, other than just grasping the game mentally like all other young players, has been what level of athleticism he's returned to post-car crash.

He wasn't injured in college, he was in a major car accident where he broke a rib which collapsed a lung, separated his shoulder, and had a compound fracture in one leg so severe they had to put it back together with a metal rod. He missed the entire '09 season as a result and was barely cleared to return to football in time for spring practices in 2010. While he played at a high level for college ball post-car accident he was far from the same athletically.

Add the lockout shortened season to that and Irving basically didn't get a real off-season of conditioning (not rehab) until this past off-season. Also, while he weighed in at 240 for the combine he was listed at 231 for much of his college career and packed on the extra pounds leading into the combine, not the best way to develop real functional strength.

He's basically had to have his body re-built into NFL condition by the Broncos training staff, and that training staff was completely overhauled last off-season, so it's not like he's had a ton of continuity. Pre-injury Irving was considered a very athletic sideline to sideline MLB, post injury he ran a 4.74 40 yard dash at his pro day. Those two traits aren't always mutually exclusive, but they generally are. This isn't a Greg Jones where everyone knew he was a downhill guy. Irving had great range as a RS sophomore and then suddenly was an in the box type as a senior (losing the junior year to injury). The Broncos gamble on him is that he can return to that sophomore level athletically given some time while still maturing mentally.

I'd be all for giving Irving a shot if a better MLB doesn't fall to us, but if someone like Manti Te'o falls to us in the first we'd be stupid not to jump all over him. Locking up a three down starter at MLB would be a game changer for our defense.
Good post. I have not thrown in the towel on Irving yet for the reasons you've stated. It will be interesting to see how the position is addressed (or not) in FA and the draft. If no significant resources are spent to address the position, that will say a lot about how they must feel regarding Irving's future.
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:33 AM   #89
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Irving is totally lost at MLB, he'll never be a MLB in the NFL, he's a decent ST guy at best. If the staff is depending on him and Steven Johnson as MLB's they're some dumb mf'rs. DJ is the best among those three, and they'd be stupid to go into the season with DJ as the best.
That is an assumption. The simple fact of the matter is that we, the fans, are ignorant on this.
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:56 AM   #90
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The big question with Nate Irving, other than just grasping the game mentally like all other young players, has been what level of athleticism he's returned to post-car crash.

He wasn't injured in college, he was in a major car accident where he broke a rib which collapsed a lung, separated his shoulder, and had a compound fracture in one leg so severe they had to put it back together with a metal rod. He missed the entire '09 season as a result and was barely cleared to return to football in time for spring practices in 2010. While he played at a high level for college ball post-car accident he was far from the same athletically.

Add the lockout shortened season to that and Irving basically didn't get a real off-season of conditioning (not rehab) until this past off-season. Also, while he weighed in at 240 for the combine he was listed at 231 for much of his college career and packed on the extra pounds leading into the combine, not the best way to develop real functional strength.

He's basically had to have his body re-built into NFL condition by the Broncos training staff, and that training staff was completely overhauled last off-season, so it's not like he's had a ton of continuity. Pre-injury Irving was considered a very athletic sideline to sideline MLB, post injury he ran a 4.74 40 yard dash at his pro day. Those two traits aren't always mutually exclusive, but they generally are. This isn't a Greg Jones where everyone knew he was a downhill guy. Irving had great range as a RS sophomore and then suddenly was an in the box type as a senior (losing the junior year to injury). The Broncos gamble on him is that he can return to that sophomore level athletically given some time while still maturing mentally.

I'd be all for giving Irving a shot if a better MLB doesn't fall to us, but if someone like Manti Te'o falls to us in the first we'd be stupid not to jump all over him. Locking up a three down starter at MLB would be a game changer for our defense.
When I see Irving on the field he looks the part. He looks like he can be a great LBer. He is big and physical and he can run. Mentally, he has had problems and when he was at MLB he was reacting too slowly and getting caught in the wash. Now that he is more comfortable with the system and with the speed of the game I am anxious to see what he can do.
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:25 AM   #91
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With all the depth at DT in this draft, there's a good possibility that the Broncos can get a good MLB prospect at #28 (in other words I think teams will take a DT first, before an ILB, thus sliding the MLB/ILB down in the draft). I'd love Minter but he will be gone.
I think we are going to go MLB in the first because of the lack of depth we have. It just sounds real suspect that Elway and Co. will just settle for Irving and Johnson to battle for starting MLB. If so, I think we could get Minter or T'eo (assuming he falls). If they are off the board I am hoping we go safety (also assuming that we pick up Knighton and resign Big Vick). I would settle for Bostic or Nico Johnson in the third or late second though.

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Old 02-19-2013, 09:00 AM   #92
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Is it a smokescreen or stupidity that they think Irving and Johnson are solid at that position. To not even look for an upgrade at MLB?? What the **** is that.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:02 AM   #93
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I doubt they would bet everything on Irving and Johnson. Unde rhte scenario where they do not draft a MLB I would bet they re-sign Williams and he would go into camp as the starting MLB and Irving and Johnson would try to take it from him.

I would be very comfortable with that scenario. I want a stud DT in the first round, a stud OL in the second and stud slot WR or RB in the 3rd.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:26 AM   #94
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I just hope somehow one of the 3 down MLB falls to Denver. Elway would be smart to have someone come up with dirt on the players they want and go public.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:36 AM   #95
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I just hope somehow one of the 3 down MLB falls to Denver. Elway would be smart to have someone come up with dirt on the players they want and go public.
MLB or OL in the first round.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:38 AM   #96
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It would be absolutely criminal if Minter was on board and Denver passes him up, only to have Baltimore snag him up and have him play there for a decade plus. That sort of mistake will never be forgiven.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:11 AM   #97
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It would be absolutely criminal if Minter was on board and Denver passes him up, only to have Baltimore snag him up and have him play there for a decade plus. That sort of mistake will never be forgiven.
Ed Reed all over again

Oh where is Ashlie Lesoftie now.....
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:17 AM   #98
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Ed Reed all over again

Oh where is Ashlie Lesoftie now.....
One of my all time favorite Shanahan moments was when Lelie held out wanting starter money because of the Walker trade, so Shanahan fined the **** out of him, pulled some of his signing bonus and sent him to ATL where he played for negative dollars.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:22 AM   #99
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Ed Reed all over again

Oh where is Ashlie Lesoftie now.....
Do you feel Minter is worth it @ #28?
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:23 AM   #100
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Do you feel Minter is worth it @ #28?
Of course he does. What a silly question
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