2013 NFL Draft: Examining the middle linebacker class

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by Bacchus

That all makes sense but If you put Shariff Floyd next to Vikerson and the best MLB between Williams, Irvin and Johnson I think Denver might be better served. I think JDR will agree. Get the big stud DTs clogging the middle and they will make your MLB much better.

Yeah but what the MLB will really do for us is give us someone who can get deeper on their drops and be more athletic when it comes to making plays in tbe passing game.

Stuffing the run not really Denvers big problem IMO. Flacco torched us in the air not on the ground.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by Mediator12

It's this^^^^

DEN does not need Penetrating One gap DT's in this scheme, it needs big bodied 2 gappers with a little wiggle. Monsters who can clog the middle agaisnt the run, and bull rush the interior pocket and get teh QB off the mark inot the outside pass rush. When you protect the MIKE with big DT's he can flow to the run plays with little trouble, ie OG's getting in the way.

As I said earlier, the MLB can be smaller in stature with greater lateral quickness like Arthur Brown, Khaseem Greene, and Beauharnias. They can flow to the ball in the run game, and not get smashed by pulling OG's in the power run game. They also get inot the hole quickly and stop it from being a gaping hole.

Then, they can also cover zone underneath and Man. This is what you need in today's NFL. Very Rarely do you get the 6'4 255 guy who can run like Urlacher when he was coming out in the draft.

Since when do Broncos really go for the fatties? We have before in FA but in general Broncos always look for versatile dlineman with big motors. The high altitude just not great for big fatties.

[Cito Pelon]

Originally Posted by Mediator12

It's this^^^^

DEN does not need Penetrating One gap DT's in this scheme, it needs big bodied 2 gappers with a little wiggle. Monsters who can clog the middle agaisnt the run, and bull rush the interior pocket and get teh QB off the mark inot the outside pass rush. When you protect the MIKE with big DT's he can flow to the run plays with little trouble, ie OG's getting in the way.

As I said earlier, the MLB can be smaller in stature with greater lateral quickness like Arthur Brown, Khaseem Greene, and Beauharnias. They can flow to the ball in the run game, and not get smashed by pulling OG's in the power run game. They also get inot the hole quickly and stop it from being a gaping hole.

Then, they can also cover zone underneath and Man. This is what you need in today's NFL. Very Rarely do you get the 6'4 255 guy who can run like Urlacher when he was coming out in the draft.

No Minter for you?

[Rohirrim]

Sounds like Minter is the guy for us. The breakdown on Manti reminds me of what they were saying about Maualuga.

[Bmore Manning]

Let's name drop some prospects we like in the middle rounds.. Too soon?

[Cito Pelon]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

Let's name drop some prospects we like in the middle rounds.. Too soon?

Med dropped a couple names. Arthur Brown is probably a high 2nd. The thing is like people have said above, with LB's the game play tells the tale. LB's don't seem to move much after the combine and Pro days. Where they are projected at season's end is where they get drafted.

[cmhargrove]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

Let's name drop some prospects we like in the middle rounds.. Too soon?

If all has gone well and he has been working his ass hard at recovery - i like Mauti somewhere in rounds 5-6. It all depends on the recovery though. He might go really late or undrafted if no one gets to really check him out before April.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by enjolras

That's why getting a real MIKE is so important tho. I don't think this is the scheme they want to be playing, I think it's one they are forced into because the MLB position is so incredibly bad.

They'd love to create more pressure up the middle by stunting those tackles and mixing things up a bit more. Until they solve the problem in the middle, they can't.

It won't change regardless of the mike backer.

Von is the centerpiece. We adjust our DL AND our LBs to put him in advantageous situations.

When he gets stonewalled by Baltimore, we're ****ed.

[Rohirrim]

AJ Klein

[ludo21]

Any Penn St guy

[Ziggy]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

It won't change regardless of the mike backer.

Von is the centerpiece. We adjust our DL AND our LBs to put him in advantageous situations.

When he gets stonewalled by Baltimore, we're ****ed.

Which is why a DT that can either collapse the pocket or penetrate is more important to this defense than a MLB.

[Mediator12]

Originally Posted by Ziggy

Which is why a DT that can either collapse the pocket or penetrate is more important to this defense than a MLB.

No, that is NOT how JDR likes his DT to play. The DT's are big bodied cloggers who can get interior bull rushing on pass plays. They are not one gap pentrators like some teams use. DEN focus's inside out DL play, meaning they clog the middle and force the play outside.

Would a guy like Sharrif Floyd upgade the DL, yes. However, using him as two gapping run stuffer is a complete waste of his talents. Bust worthy waste of his talents

There are a LOT of big bodied DT's that will be available in the 3-5 rounds. That's the kind of DT's JDR has always used. Elite pass rushing, penetrating DT's is not the scheme JDR has favored over the years. He favors the Clog the inside and force the run to the LB speed. He also likes more athletic LB's who can cover versus thumpers.

[Requiem]

Thanks for all this, Med.

Floyd has 2-gap experience at Florida, though I agree that he is best suited as an 3-tech penetrating DT. I do hope we give Brown and Greene looks @ LB.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Ziggy

Which is why a DT that can either collapse the pocket or penetrate is more important to this defense than a MLB.

Originally Posted by Mediator12

No, that is NOT how JDR likes his DT to play. The DT's are big bodied cloggers who can get interior bull rushing on pass plays. They are not one gap pentrators like some teams use. DEN focus's inside out DL play, meaning they clog the middle and force the play outside.

Would a guy like Sharrif Floyd upgade the DL, yes. However, using him as two gapping run stuffer is a complete waste of his talents. Bust worthy waste of his talents

There are a LOT of big bodied DT's that will be available in the 3-5 rounds. That's the kind of DT's JDR has always used. Elite pass rushing, penetrating DT's is not the scheme JDR has favored over the years. He favors the Clog the inside and force the run to the LB speed. He also likes more athletic LB's who can cover versus thumpers.

^ that and more importantly, IMO, a DT can't cover open passing lanes. That was the largest deficiency in our defensive unit last year, by a LARGE margin, imo.

[Bacchus]

Originally Posted by Mediator12

No, that is NOT how JDR likes his DT to play. The DT's are big bodied cloggers who can get interior bull rushing on pass plays. They are not one gap pentrators like some teams use. DEN focus's inside out DL play, meaning they clog the middle and force the play outside.

Would a guy like Sharrif Floyd upgade the DL, yes. However, using him as two gapping run stuffer is a complete waste of his talents. Bust worthy waste of his talents

There are a LOT of big bodied DT's that will be available in the 3-5 rounds. That's the kind of DT's JDR has always used. Elite pass rushing, penetrating DT's is not the scheme JDR has favored over the years. He favors the Clog the inside and force the run to the LB speed. He also likes more athletic LB's who can cover versus thumpers.

John Henderson and Marcus Stroud were great big bodied DTs that dominated. Shariff Floyd is of the same mold. JDR is still def. cord in Denver and if Floyd is there at #28 I can almost promise you he will be a Bronco.

[BroncoBuff]

Originally Posted by Mediator12

The great defenses have those guys as leaders. The average defenses have 2 down thumpers and replace the Mike on Passing snaps.

I suppose these happen pretty often, "great defense = Mike leader," "average defense = 2-down thumper." But this team is different ... Miller's a DPOY candidate, and Woodyard graded out the best 4-3 pass coverage OLB in the league this year. So why worry about finding some every down Mike-leader when he's just gonna take snaps away from our best playmakers?

Mays and Brooking are thumpers, and we finished with the #3 defense in the league.

[MagicHef]

How is Ellerbee in coverage?

[gyldenlove]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

^ that and more importantly, IMO, a DT can't cover open passing lanes. That was the largest deficiency in our defensive unit last year, by a LARGE margin, imo.

I agree, poor coverage in the middle by linebackers and safeties especially was the biggest problem, even mediocre tight ends completely killed us.

[g6matty]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

^ that and more importantly, IMO, a DT can't cover open passing lanes. That was the largest deficiency in our defensive unit last year, by a LARGE margin, imo.

[Ziggy]

Originally Posted by Mediator12

No, that is NOT how JDR likes his DT to play. The DT's are big bodied cloggers who can get interior bull rushing on pass plays. They are not one gap pentrators like some teams use. DEN focus's inside out DL play, meaning they clog the middle and force the play outside.

Would a guy like Sharrif Floyd upgade the DL, yes. However, using him as two gapping run stuffer is a complete waste of his talents. Bust worthy waste of his talents

There are a LOT of big bodied DT's that will be available in the 3-5 rounds. That's the kind of DT's JDR has always used. Elite pass rushing, penetrating DT's is not the scheme JDR has favored over the years. He favors the Clog the inside and force the run to the LB speed. He also likes more athletic LB's who can cover versus thumpers.

The days of Stroud and Henderson starting for JDR in Jacksonville were thier best years. They both averaged about 3.5 sacks/year each in a run heavy NFL, but they were very disruptive. If they weren't collapsing the pocket or penetrating, they were batting down passes. I don't know how much Jaguars football you watched back then Med, but thier defense was built around those 2. The year that Kris Jenkins played for him in Carolina, he had 7 sacks.

I'm not arguing that JDR likes the bigger 1 gap Dtackles, I'm just saying that his best defenses come when those guys can get to the QB as well as plug. Brandon Williams out of Missouri Southern is the type of guy that could come in and give JDR that interior pass rushing presence. If you build up this interior line, you can still have a great defense with an average MLB lining up between Von and Woodyard/Tevathan.

[Rascal]

As long as the first pick is on defense I will approve.

[BroncoBuff]

Originally Posted by Mediator12

There are a LOT of big bodied DT's that will be available in the 3-5 rounds. That's the kind of DT's JDR has always used. Penetrating DT's are not the scheme JDR has favored over the years. He favors the Clog the inside and force the run to the LB speed. He also likes more athletic LB's who can cover versus thumpers.

Couple hours ago on Denver Post:

It’s natural to speculate Jacksonville free-agent Terrance Knighton would be on the Broncos’ radar. Denver defensive coordiantor Jack Del Rio was the Jaguars’ head coach who selected Knighton out of Temple in the third round of the 2009 draft. And Knighton is more natural at his playing weight of 330 pounds, the kind of big body Fox and Del Rio prefer in their defensive tackles.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/...tackles/18481/

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by g6matty

[IMG]http://ronenews92fm.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/jj-watt-2.jpg?w=645[IMG]

Oh please. You're gonna use literally the most dominant defensive season I've ever seen and cite it like it could be achieved with regularity?

[gunns]

Originally Posted by Rascal

As long as the first pick is on defense I will approve.

Amen.

[Cito Pelon]

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

I suppose these happen pretty often, "great defense = Mike leader," "average defense = 2-down thumper." But this team is different ... Miller's a DPOY candidate, and Woodyard graded out the best 4-3 pass coverage OLB in the league this year. So why worry about finding some every down Mike-leader when he's just gonna take snaps away from our best playmakers?

Mays and Brooking are thumpers, and we finished with the #3 defense in the league.

A 3-down MLB won't take snaps away from Woodyard and Miller. The point about finding a 3-down MLB is you can keep him in to cover middle zones most of the time instead of trotting in new secondary groups to replace the 2-down thumper.

And pretty importantly, you don't have to transfer the green dot to somebody else to call the plays. Which would you like to have, one man wearing the green dot 85-90% of the time, or two different guys aligning the defense, 60-40 split?

Seems to me you'd want one guy wearing the green dot as the leader of the defense as much as you can.