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Old 04-05-2013, 11:06 AM   #1676
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Houston had a great draft. The pick I like the least is apparently everyone else's favorite, Trevardo Williams. I like him in the 4th round as a SAM LB in a 43 defense. I like the guy I got in the 7th as a 34 OLB more. Williams' size is not ideal, but despite a decent 40, he's not overly quick and his change of direction is average. Important traits for a 34 LB looking to bend the edge. And even more important when you don't have the length that is prototypical for the position. I also am leery that in the last two years, I don't see a quality opponent that Williams had to go against. And he was injured for the Senior Bowl. I want to see what this guy can do against a 4 star recruit at OT, especially since his playing weight was 230 or below.


I'm fully prepared to be wrong on Williams, but I just don't see how anyone can have a different opinion. The evidence is just not out there to examine. It must all be projection off of something, I'd like to know what.
That is funny because that is how I feel about Martin!

I am not sure where you get he lacks agility, quickness, or the capability to bend the edge. Those are his hallmark traits. He is tremendously explosive and has a very solid get off, one of the most consistent in this class. He is a speed rusher predominantly, and can not translate speed to power yet. However, he has the physical and mental tools to get there. He does a decent job of slipping inside when OT's overset to his speed rush as well. He just does not have a good countermove or refined techniques to be an everydown guy right now IMHO.

I agree I was a little upset he could not perform at the Senior Bowl, but he reinjured the same high ankle sprain and he at least tried to go injured. He did the same at the combine and it says a lot about the kid and his competitiveness to me. He did not cry injury and not try, he wanted to compete. To me, he is a PRS and OLB in a 3-4 in the NFL. I think he is the most natural speed edge rusher in the draft, but he is not a complete player yet IMHO.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:04 PM   #1677
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That is funny because that is how I feel about Martin!

I am not sure where you get he lacks agility, quickness, or the capability to bend the edge. Those are his hallmark traits. He is tremendously explosive and has a very solid get off, one of the most consistent in this class. He is a speed rusher predominantly, and can not translate speed to power yet. However, he has the physical and mental tools to get there. He does a decent job of slipping inside when OT's overset to his speed rush as well. He just does not have a good countermove or refined techniques to be an everydown guy right now IMHO.

I agree I was a little upset he could not perform at the Senior Bowl, but he reinjured the same high ankle sprain and he at least tried to go injured. He did the same at the combine and it says a lot about the kid and his competitiveness to me. He did not cry injury and not try, he wanted to compete. To me, he is a PRS and OLB in a 3-4 in the NFL. I think he is the most natural speed edge rusher in the draft, but he is not a complete player yet IMHO.
And those are coachable. Someone like Wade Phillips can develop Trevardo into more than just a one trick pony.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:22 PM   #1678
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That is funny because that is how I feel about Martin!

I am not sure where you get he lacks agility, quickness, or the capability to bend the edge. Those are his hallmark traits. He is tremendously explosive and has a very solid get off, one of the most consistent in this class. He is a speed rusher predominantly, and can not translate speed to power yet. However, he has the physical and mental tools to get there. He does a decent job of slipping inside when OT's overset to his speed rush as well. He just does not have a good countermove or refined techniques to be an everydown guy right now IMHO.

I agree I was a little upset he could not perform at the Senior Bowl, but he reinjured the same high ankle sprain and he at least tried to go injured. He did the same at the combine and it says a lot about the kid and his competitiveness to me. He did not cry injury and not try, he wanted to compete. To me, he is a PRS and OLB in a 3-4 in the NFL. I think he is the most natural speed edge rusher in the draft, but he is not a complete player yet IMHO.

He tested well in the bench and vertical. The agility drills, not so much. That's huge when projecting a player to play in space, especially as a 34 OLB as the Texans have. He chose not to try and do better at his Pro Day. His weight is also a huge concern, he played at 230 lbs, possibly less. That's not going to work in a 34 defense, so it's likely he'll become even less agile as he puts on weight, since that's how that generally works. And he never played against anyone better than a Joe Blow in a weak conference.

I'm not sure what can be gleamed by that. Plus, UCONN always has these types of players. Cody Brown was the same type of guy, Lindsey Witten was next, now its Trevardo Williams. Williams has the same stats as the others, he's just smaller. The scheme and opposing talent there creates numbers. And none of those DEs have been successful in the NFL.

What I do like about Williams is that everything is there to play SAM in a Mathias Kiwanuka or Manny Lawson type role. So, I do like Williams as a prospect in the 4th round area, I'm just not sold on him as a 34 OLB until I see some proof he can do it against talented 320 lb DTs.




Now, in comparison to Eric Martin, I don't think he can touch him. Martin is much quicker and his entire collegiate film until the end of last year is him in space as an absolute terror on special teams. Martin played against massively better competition in the BIG 10 and he showed well in the bowl game against SEC's Georgia, which I just broke down play by play and wrote up to be posted.

I'm FAR more comfortable with Martin because he's more athletic, he was equally productive as a small DE but in a tougher conference with top O-line recruits, he's played in space both as a special team gunner and as a former OLB, he's played at 250 lbs, and he's proven against top competition. That last one is huge for me. And there's no stigma at Nebraska, they are usually known for their powerful, yet lead-foot D-linemen, not an undersized, mean, bone-crushing athletic freak.

I think we've got a couple more guys to compare and add to our ever growing list.
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:29 PM   #1679
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Thoughts on recent selections:

Lonnie Pryor, FSU. I was going to draft him, but those crafty Texans snagged another good player. A devastating blocker, he's a versatile H-back type that can catch and run. Houston is a great fit for him, better than Cincinnati in reality. I had a high 5th round grade on Pryor, which was my highest grade remaining.


Jeff Baca, UCLA. One of two OGs remaining that I like quite a bit. I had a 6th round grade on him, so this is good value to me. Just a really well-rounded OG prospect that has quality athleticism, arm length, and strength.


Brandon Kaufman, Eastern Washington. Don't really know a ton about him, definitely has some intriguing size, though his speed probably not quite as good as you'd like. There are a couple WRs remaining I do like a bit more, but he seems like a solid guy to take a flier on.


Blaize Foltz, TCU. Geez. I don't know very much about this guy either. Has a great name though. The OG group is pretty dead, there's one guy remaining I find pretty intriguing, but maybe you could educate me on Foltz?


Damion Square, Alabama. At least it's a prospect I'm familiar with. I think there were some better options still out there. Square is more of a back of the roster guy at best, I'm not sure he has much upside, he's been coached thoroughly, and I think this is the best it gets.


Manase Foketi, West Texas AM. Probably could have nabbed him in Free Agency, but if you like a guy, you take him now. Had the achilles issue a few years ago, had the sudden dislike for KSU and wanted to get closer to home. Projects as a mauling RG in the NFL. Foot speed issues, won't be able to pull, but might have a future. Reminds me a ton of Deuce Leteui.


John Boyett, Oregon. Good safety prospect. Once. Tore tendens in both knees. Both patellers. Football players almost never come back from those to be decent. His were partial tears, so maybe there'a chance. If he can come back, he's a solid flier this late. He was a stud for years before the injury.


Roger Gaines, Tennessee State. Really like his upside and potential, which is almost as massive as he is. He has prototypical size and arm length. He's been very productive at his dinky school (DRC came from there btw). He answered any questions about his athleticism at the Combine, and he's a pretty good guy off the field. He's raw, it will take him some time, but there is no reason at all he doesn't become a dominant player. It's all there.
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:34 PM   #1680
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Rogers Gaines has nearly unprecedented physical dimensions -- 36 1/2" arms, and put up the bench 28 times? The last prospect to do anything remotely like that was Ryan Clady (36" arms, 24 reps on the bench). Intriguing....

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Old 04-05-2013, 05:37 PM   #1681
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Rogers Gaines has nearly unprecedented physical dimensions -- 36 1/2" arms, and put up the bench 28 times? The last prospect to do anything like that was Ryan Clady (36" arms, 34 reps on the bench).... just sayin'.....
I'll take it!

It's Roger Gaines btw, NFL.Com is retarded and put an S at the end of his first name.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:07 PM   #1682
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7th-round picks I'm grooving on (besides my own):

SS Rontez Miles, California (PA) - seems to have that "it" factor that the best safeties have.

P Ryan Allen, LA Tech - Two-time Ray Guy award winner? Seems like a can't miss, 15-year contributor to me....

OT Luke Marquardt, Azusa Pacific - This is dependent upon his pro day results on April 11th. He and Roger Gaines are the "Planet Theory" offensive line guys left on the board.

K Dustin Hopkins, Florida State - like Ryan Allen, a very safe special teams pick. Unlike some of the other kickers, he also has the leg strength to handle kickoffs.

RB Rex Burkhead, Nebraska - except for his 40 time, he's a wonderful prospect. This guy will be on my Denver Broncos dream mock draft, for sure.

DE Mike Catapano, Princeton - Superb measurables, should be an instant contributor for a 4-3 team at the DE spot.

DE Eric Martin, Nebraska - like MUG, I'm mystified as to why this guy isn't getting more attention from the draft gurus. I suspect that NFL teams are playing coy about their interest in this player, and that he comes off the board in the 3rd or 4th round of this year's draft.

RB/FB Zach Line, SMU - Will never be a sexy lead back in the NFL, but I'd be surprised if he didn't end up playing for at least 4 years at the next level.

OG Jeff Baca, UCLA - his physical appearance is all that's holding him back (looks like a sloppy hot mess "on the hoof"), but I'm very bullish on his long-term NFL prospects.

OT Rogers Gaines, TSU - freakish length/strength measurables. His soma type has a strong, strong correlation with NFL success.

OLB/DE Walter Stewart, Cincy - take away the concerns about his spine, and he's a 2nd rounder. Some doctors have cleared him without reservation, while others are VERY adamant that he stop playing football.

Great, great 7th rounding drafting, gentlemen. I salute you all.

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Old 04-06-2013, 12:19 AM   #1683
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I'll take it!

It's Roger Gaines btw, NFL.Com is retarded and put an S at the end of his first name.
Wrong....

http://www.tsutigers.com/ViewArticle...CLID=204985869
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:58 AM   #1684
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Trust me, I'm not wrong.

He's Roger.

Look at any FVC All-American award. He's Roger.
Look at the personal interviews done with him. He's Roger.
When his coach talks about him. He's Roger.
The Tennessee State student body newspaper did a nice write up on him. He's Roger.
Hell, even Bleacher Report did a report on him. He's Roger.


Best I can tell is some doofus on the out of date website for TSU's player page screwed that up, and that's why NFL.Com has it wrong. If his real name is "Rogers", he does not use it. And I go by what a 340 lb Gigantor with massive arms wants.
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Old 04-06-2013, 05:41 AM   #1685
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Trust me, I'm not wrong.

He's Roger.

Look at any FVC All-American award. He's Roger.
Look at the personal interviews done with him. He's Roger.
When his coach talks about him. He's Roger.
The Tennessee State student body newspaper did a nice write up on him. He's Roger.
Hell, even Bleacher Report did a report on him. He's Roger.


Best I can tell is some doofus on the out of date website for TSU's player page screwed that up, and that's why NFL.Com has it wrong. If his real name is "Rogers", he does not use it. And I go by what a 340 lb Gigantor with massive arms wants.
Yes, but the TSU site is pretty consistent about spelling it "Rogers", even in very recent press releases...

http://www.tsutigers.com/ViewArticle...B_OEM_ID=19600

http://www.tsutigers.com/ViewArticle...CLID=206525160

The NFL Combine site also has it listed as "Rogers", as does ESPN, Pro Football Weekly, National Football Post, NFL Draft Countdown, and Mel Kiper's Draft Guide.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profil...nes?id=2539318

Finally, his former high school also lists him as Rogers in this press release...

http://whitehousefootball.wordpress....uting-combine/

Last edited by BowlenBall; 04-06-2013 at 06:18 AM..
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:28 AM   #1686
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Yes, but the TSU site is pretty consistent about spelling it "Rogers", even in very recent press releases...

http://www.tsutigers.com/ViewArticle...B_OEM_ID=19600

http://www.tsutigers.com/ViewArticle...CLID=206525160

The NFL Combine site also has it listed as "Rogers", as does ESPN, Pro Football Weekly, National Football Post, NFL Draft Countdown, and Mel Kiper's Draft Guide.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profil...nes?id=2539318

Finally, his former high school also lists him as Rogers in this press release...

http://whitehousefootball.wordpress....uting-combine/

Well at least I understand where you're coming from. Can we agree to call him by whatever he wants his name to be? I've never seen him referred to as Rogers except by sites or people that don't actually know him.

And I did spend some time figuring out what the hell his real name was before my massive write up on him. It seemed like the people he actually spoke to personally referred to him as Roger. So, that's what I'm rolling with until it becomes clear that's wrong.
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:38 AM   #1687
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Well at least I understand where you're coming from. Can we agree to call him by whatever he wants his name to be? I've never seen him referred to as Rogers except by sites or people that don't actually know him.

And I did spend some time figuring out what the hell his real name was before my massive write up on him. It seemed like the people he actually spoke to personally referred to him as Roger. So, that's what I'm rolling with until it becomes clear that's wrong.
Like his own high school, college, and the NFL?



After doing a little digging, it's pretty obvious that his given name is, in fact, Rogers, but I'm sure he answers to Roger as well -- he'd have to, as I'm sure people would constantly be dropping the S throughout his life, and it's easier to just go along with it than to keep correcting them.

It's great that we can spend several minutes arguing over the correct spelling of a 7th-round offensive line prospect from backwater Tennessee.... this draft obsession is a sickness, isn't it?
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:48 AM   #1688
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Like his own high school, college, and the NFL?


After doing a little digging, it's pretty obvious that his given name is, in fact, Rogers, but I'm sure he answers to Roger as well -- he'd have to, as I'm sure people would constantly be dropping the S throughout his life, and it's easier to just go along with it than to keep correcting them.

It's great that we can spend several minutes arguing over the correct spelling of a 7th-round offensive line prospect from backwater Tennessee.... this draft obsession is a sickness, isn't it?

For sure. His name is not Rogers though.

In that Pro Day interview, at the 40 second mark, the interviewer tells him "I'm good Roger".

His dad's first name was Rogers. That would make his official name have to be Rogers Gaines II or Rogers Gaines, Jr. That's not his name.

And again, the things that matter like his All American Award is Roger Gaines. I don't really care what some social media guy from his high school thinks his name was.

All of that can easily be explained because one website editor spelled his name wrong on the school's official bio page. All these other sites would link there first. Though, of course, the actual page lists him as Roger Gaines. It's just the spelling on that bio is wrong. He put his dad's name.
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:54 AM   #1689
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For sure. His name is not Rogers though.
Sigh....

Here's a video where a guy calls him Rogers to his face, and doesn't get slapped....



If this is the pro day interview you're talking about, the interviewer spells his name RogerS on the YouTube description....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBt0zzHPt3M

I'm just not going to convince you though, am I?
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:03 AM   #1690
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Sigh....

Here's a video where a guy calls him Rogers to his face, and doesn't get slapped....



If this is the pro day interview you're talking about, the interviewer spells his name RogerS on the YouTube description....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBt0zzHPt3M

I'm just not going to convince you though, am I?

No, because his name is Roger. His dad was Rogers. His legal name would have to be Jr, or the II. That is not the case.

I want one person that matters. His coach, himself, his parents, his girlfriend, his best friend, or a post season award ceremony that calls him Rogers.

How hard is it for some kid doing a sideline interview to look at NFL.com or the schools bio, see the wrong name, and think that's correct.

On the flip side, how hard would it be for the biggest honor in his life (his words in his personal interview I linked to) to misspell his name as an All American? When they have to get that information from him and his coaches in the first place?

I understand why you're confused. Some dumbass put an S on his name, all the media outlets look at that, and it catches like wildfire. The good sites, like the updated NFLDraftScout know it is Roger.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/p...5/roger-gaines
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:11 AM   #1691
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On the positive side, if Ludo and the others ever make their selections, my next guy doesn't have a name that will be up for debate.

I have to thank you though Bowlen, this is making my morning go by faster. I'm dorking out, so posting between this and WildStar, is keeping me busy, hopefully until lunch.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:20 AM   #1692
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On the positive side, if Ludo and the others ever make their selections, my next guy doesn't have a name that will be up for debate.

I have to thank you though Bowlen, this is making my morning go by faster. I'm dorking out, so posting between this and WildStar, is keeping me busy, hopefully until lunch.
It's gonna be hilarious if the Broncos end up taking Gaines after all this, isn't it?

I've spent the afternoon getting my UDFA list together -- 11 more picks in the regular draft, and then we're down to the deep sleepers!
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:52 AM   #1693
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Guys his name is actually RogerZ with a z
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:40 AM   #1694
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Guys his name is actually RogerZ with a z
Only if he has a strong pimp hand could he pull that off. He probably does.
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:44 AM   #1695
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It's gonna be hilarious if the Broncos end up taking Gaines after all this, isn't it?

I've spent the afternoon getting my UDFA list together -- 11 more picks in the regular draft, and then we're down to the deep sleepers!

I would love for the Broncos to draft Martin and Gaines. That's how I found them was researching whom might fit as a backup for Von Miller and to upgrade Chris Clark. Assuming nobody takes my next guy, I'd love for the Broncos to draft him too.

I'm probably more excited for the potential of these mid-late round guys then I am for whatever we fish out of the first couple rounds. Except Eddie Lacy. I would be extremely excited with him. And Jon Bostic. Would really like him as a well in the late 2nd. Ok, I lied, I'm pretty excited about every round and prospect we might take in the draft.

Next couple weeks need to fly by.
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:50 AM   #1696
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Only if he has a strong pimp hand could he pull that off. He probably does.
Rogerz Gaines

Arm Length: 36 1/4"
Hand size: 10 5/8"
225-lb. bench: 28 reps

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Old 04-06-2013, 09:07 AM   #1697
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I would love for the Broncos to draft Martin and Gaines. That's how I found them was researching whom might fit as a backup for Von Miller and to upgrade Chris Clark. Assuming nobody takes my next guy, I'd love for the Broncos to draft him too.

I'm probably more excited for the potential of these mid-late round guys then I am for whatever we fish out of the first couple rounds. Except Eddie Lacy. I would be extremely excited with him. And Jon Bostic. Would really like him as a well in the late 2nd. Ok, I lied, I'm pretty excited about every round and prospect we might take in the draft.

Next couple weeks need to fly by.
They are for me. I'm pretty pain killered up

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Old 04-06-2013, 09:10 AM   #1698
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What surgery was that?
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:29 AM   #1699
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What surgery was that?
Dick reduction. It was so big it hurt my shoulder too.

Lol so opposite of true. I torn my labrum in two places lifting a year and a half ago
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:53 AM   #1700
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Dick reduction. It was so big it hurt my shoulder too.

Lol so opposite of true. I torn my labrum in two places lifting a year and a half ago
Damn it! I knew I should have went with the whack off joke.

Sucks man. Hope the surgery corrected it and it heals up fast. Wife was in a car accident and had back surgery almost a year ago, we thought the surgery would fix the problems. Not so much, or at least not as fast as we hoped.
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