OT: When did an 18% tip become mandatory?

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by DENVERDUI55

Pretty easy to do.

I'm guilty of over stating my case with "practically impossible". But I think we can probably all agree that it isn't "easy" and that the type of earnings you're talking about are by far the exception to the rule in that line of work. For ever person who pulls in that kind of $ as a server there are hundreds who don't remotely do so.

[GreatBronco16]

Minimum wage for tipped employees is an appalling $2.13 an hour

According to who? Around here, tipped employees get half of minimum wage plus their tips. So half of 7.25 is what they get, so 3.63.

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by GreatBronco16

According to who? Around here, tipped employees get half of minimum wage plus their tips. So half of 7.25 is what they get, so 3.63.

It's a state thing. The Feds establish the minimum wage but the state can go higher. In like 5 states, there's no such thing as anything under minimum wage but that's state based. He could be citing either the Fed min or his local min.

[Willynowei]

All you guys trying to say I'm wrong, go into the tax code, or find me an IRS form that shows 12.5% as the absolute minimum you have to report on sales at a restaurant.

Otherwise shut the **** up you panzies.

And really, please don't pretend like half your business isn't done in cash in that industry, an industry where the harder working bus-boys earn less than minimum wage and only get a chunk of the tips you give 'em.

I wouldn't be surprised either if some of you work at the higher end restaurants too, where you're getting paid double your peers due to the higher prices for half the work.

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by Willynowei

All you guys trying to say I'm wrong, go into the tax code, or find me an IRS form that shows 12.5% as the absolute minimum you have to report on sales at a restaurant.

Otherwise shut the **** up you panzies.

And really, please don't pretend like half your business isn't done in cash in that industry, an industry where the harder working bus-boys earn less than minimum wage and only get a chunk of the tips you give 'em.

I wouldn't be surprised either if some of you work at the higher end restaurants too, where you're getting paid double your peers due to the higher prices for half the work.

I'm with ya on waitresses. If there's a bigger group of crying b****es with an entitlement complex, I've never met them.

That said, I typed "8%" into the link you posted (after the other guy called BS) and got nothing. If you calling him f'ing stupid or whatever and it isn't actually what you said, that was a gaffe. Calling him out on his BS claim was fine but you just should've ensured your info was accurate for the TKO.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by Willynowei

Sorry, that article is bull****.

I've lived in New York City nearly a decade. This is the most grueling, unforgiving city for waiters and waitresses, you always tip 15% here - that's satisfactory, period. 18% is ****ing fantastic.

I'll be damned if some suburbanite living in New Jersey (a place I've also lived just as long in) is going to comment on how New Yorkers tip for food.

People here can be especially stingy with tips, there are three kinds of people that tip particularly high in new york.

1 - Out of towners (majority), or in other words - idiots.

2 - People on business dinners/lunches because they aren't paying, the company is.

3 - People that've "made it" here. If you've made it in New York, you could probably buy each and every restaurant you walk into, that's a different story.

Otherwise you got a city full of wealthy jews and upper middle class people who try to save money anyway because the place is the second/third most expensive place to live in the world (and that's not counting immigrants who for obvious reasons won't tip generously).

Areas like New England and Midwest America tend to tip higher because of the small town help the guy out mentality and the fact that the areas are largely racially homogenous.

EDIT: That Article refers to the New York Post which only studied something like 2 restaurants - one of which is in the upper west side. If you ever want to eat the worst food in the world for the most amount of money, you'll find plenty such places in the Upper West Side, where the only thing people care about is what's the trendiest place to take your main squeezes and how well you can show off your dough before taking the chick upstairs.

see, this is why I come to the OMane. I have absolutely no reason to doubt Willy on this post. How can you make this **** up? Next time I'm in Manhattan, I don't give a ratz furry ass where I'm eating, I ain't gonna tip no 20-25% because I want the waiter to feel good, lol!

[ScottXray]

Originally Posted by TheElusiveKyleOrton

I don't think that 18% is the standard, but I also don't mind keeping those happy who serve me food and drink. I tip 20% unless the service was bad. If it's exceptionally bad, I go down to 10%.

18% is the standard auto-grat for large parties though.

Like you I tip 20% for good service. Sometimes more. If the service is average I'll go 15%, but if the service is bad I go 10% or even less ( really bad). Good waiters and waitresses know that service equals money and should show it. I do tend to tip higher percentages in lower tier restaurants, as the staff there don't get huge tabs for their diners.

A tip is a GRATUITY. It is a bonus for good service, not a mandatory fee. Restaurants are now required to pay at least servers minimum wage to the servers, and good restaurants pay a bit more. So, tips are not the only income waiters and waitresses make, which was true years ago. While large parties usually have a mandatory 18% added to the bill, that also means you can b**** to the manager if the service is not good, and I have done so in the past. BAD service does not justify 18%, especially when you are dropping $500 to 1K on a meal.

Those servers that think 18% is a minimum should not be working in the restaurant business.

[Willynowei]

Originally Posted by That One Guy

I'm with ya on waitresses. If there's a bigger group of crying b****es with an entitlement complex, I've never met them.

That said, I typed "8%" into the link you posted (after the other guy called BS) and got nothing. If you calling him f'ing stupid or whatever and it isn't actually what you said, that was a gaffe. Calling him out on his BS claim was fine but you just should've ensured your info was accurate for the TKO.

I got you dude.

Originally Posted by Willynowei

The actual number is 8%. I love how ****ing stupid people are.
http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8027/ch01.html

Straight from the IRS website.

Under that link is the following paragraph:

Allocation of Tips

You must allocate tips among employees who receive them if the total tips reported to you during any payroll period are less than 8% (or the approved lower rate) of this establishment's gross receipts for that period.

Generally, the amount allocated is the difference between the total tips reported by employees and 8% (or the lower rate) of the gross receipts, other than nonallocable receipts.

If people are genuinely offended by my rants, don't take my abrasiveness too seriously, if its not obvious, i'm just one of those.

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by Willynowei

I got you dude.



Under that link is the following paragraph:

Allocation of Tips

You must allocate tips among employees who receive them if the total tips reported to you during any payroll period are less than 8% (or the approved lower rate) of this establishment's gross receipts for that period.

Generally, the amount allocated is the difference between the total tips reported by employees and 8% (or the lower rate) of the gross receipts, other than nonallocable receipts.

If people are genuinely offended by my rants, don't take my abrasiveness too seriously, if its not obvious, i'm just one of those.

I saw that part but didn't realize it applied. Can you translate?

[Rock Chalk]

Originally Posted by TheElusiveKyleOrton

I don't think that 18% is the standard, but I also don't mind keeping those happy who serve me food and drink. I tip 20% unless the service was bad. If it's exceptionally bad, I go down to 10%.

18% is the standard auto-grat for large parties though.

I was a waiter once upon a time.

And even as a former waiter Im not giving 18% I dont give a **** how good their service is.

You get no tip at all for bad service. Your job as a waiter isn't ****ing hard, if you cant give me average service Im not giving you one ****ing cent.

For average service, you get an average tip 7%. I will not tip ANYONE over 15% of my bill and thats 15% of my pre-tax bill.

A good waiter giving good service at a moderately priced restaurant can handle about 20 tables a night at approximately $100 per table. Giving good service to every one of them is 10 bucks on average (because some people are ****ty tippers and some people are over-tippers because they have small penises and some tables will get good service and some tables wont) per table or 200 bucks a night. These aren't generally people supporting a family, this is generally just out of HS, or college age students or losers that are going no where anyway.

200 bucks a night is a pretty good living for the demographic of waiters.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by That One Guy

I saw that part but didn't realize it applied. Can you translate?

I'll translate it for you, have you ever dated a waitress? I dated a hotty cocktail waitress back in the day and she made good money on tips. You don't actually think she claimed all of that income on her taxes, do you?

Lets say she made 20% on her tips, that some good cash. However, she only claimed she made like 10% on her tips when filling out her paperwork. This is the discrepency that I'm seeing but I could be wrong.

[Dedhed]

Originally Posted by errand

OK...and once again, servers make more per hour in total compensation than the car loading guy does....so why were you trying to go with the "living wage" bull****?

You are beyond daft. They're only paid a living wage because of tips, WHICH IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS THREAD!!!

you posted this -

"You probably know that when you order a meal in restaurant, the person who brings you the food is generally paid less than minimum wage. Tips are supposed to make up the difference.

Here's the problem: Minimum wage for tipped employees is an appalling $2.13 an hour. And for millions of people who work in the restaurant industry, tips don't come close to providing a living wage.

This is not a small problem. Almost one-third of food workers don't have enough money to buy enough safe and nutritious food to meet their needs. The people who make and serve your food literally may be going hungry."

You implied that we the public should tip more because these poor servers don't make a living wage....

I gave an example of another person in another job that doesn't make a living wage either, but you seem to think that they're not worthy of being paid a "living wage"

And you have the unmitigated gall to call me ignorant?

Clearly you have issues and less than the average set of observation skills. I did not write that, it was clipped from an email I happened to get in my spam box. I thought the drastically different font and completely different tone would make that pretty obvious.

And again. No server is paid a living wage without tips, which is the point of this thread. Remind yourself of that 12 times before the next time you post.

[ghwk]

I also do 15% on the pretax and up to 20% if the service is really good. You have to be really ****ty for me to give less than 15%.

What pisses me off is the automatic 18% for parties of 6 or more because I have received some really lousy service in those situations. Pluse I have accidentally tipped 15% without noticing that the gratuity has already been added and not once have I had the waitperson point out the mistake, or at least mention it. Yeah my bad for not paying closer attention to the bill but I never go back to the restaurant again.

[Tombstone RJ]

oh lawdy I loved dating that cocktail waitress!! I was in good with the bartendar too. I drank all night long like a fish and ate dinner too and then he would hand me the bill for like $10.00. You know this guy got a $50.00 tip, right??

[errand]

Originally Posted by Dedhed

Clearly you have issues and less than the average set of observation skills. I did not write that, it was clipped from an email I happened to get in my spam box. I thought the drastically different font and completely different tone would make that pretty obvious.

And again. No server is paid a living wage without tips, which is the point of this thread. Remind yourself of that 12 times before the next time you post.

Hey dumbass...I never said you wrote it...I said you posted it

I guess reading and comprehension isn't your strong suit...

Be that as it may, you "posted" it because you obviously agreed with it. If a living wage is considered to be around 10-12 dollars an hour, why aren't you advocating that people tip ANYONE who makes less than that?

And if you cared to read with the intent to comprehend you'd have seen that I stated most servers, even bad ones make more than $10-12 an hour...and we know their hourly wage isn't a "living wage" without tips...if it were they wouldn't be allowed to receive tips, dumbass....

One poster said that if given the choice between being paid a higher hourly wage vs. the lower wage and tips, they will take the lower with tips every damn time......and he is correct

[Dedhed]

Originally Posted by Willynowei

All you guys trying to say I'm wrong, go into the tax code, or find me an IRS form that shows 12.5% as the absolute minimum you have to report on sales at a restaurant.

Otherwise shut the **** up you panzies.

And really, please don't pretend like half your business isn't done in cash in that industry, an industry where the harder working bus-boys earn less than minimum wage and only get a chunk of the tips you give 'em.

I wouldn't be surprised either if some of you work at the higher end restaurants too, where you're getting paid double your peers due to the higher prices for half the work.

Talking in a more aggressive tone and adding insults doesn't cover up the fact that you're wrong. 8% has nothing to do with servers, it's the baseline for the establishment, not the servers.

[Dedhed]

Originally Posted by errand

Hey dumbass...I never said you wrote it...I said you posted it

I guess reading and comprehension isn't your strong suit...

Originally Posted by errand

You implied that we the public should tip more because these poor servers don't make a living wage....

I didn't imply it, the article did, but I'm sure you were aware of that; right? Keep backtracking though.

Be that as it may, you "posted" it because you obviously agreed with it. If a living wage is considered to be around 10-12 dollars an hour, why aren't you advocating that people tip ANYONE who makes less than that?

And if you cared to read with the intent to comprehend you'd have seen that I stated most servers, even bad ones make more than $10-12 an hour...and we know their hourly wage isn't a "living wage" without tips...if it were they wouldn't be allowed to receive tips, dumbass....

One poster said that if given the choice between being paid a higher hourly wage vs. the lower wage and tips, they will take the lower with tips every damn time......and he is correct

I would give you kudos for not actually answering to the topic, like a great politician, if I thought there was any way you were aware of the fact that you weren't actually arguing the topic.

[Dedhed]

Originally Posted by Rock Chalk

I was a waiter once upon a time.

And even as a former waiter Im not giving 18% I dont give a **** how good their service is.

You get no tip at all for bad service. Your job as a waiter isn't ****ing hard, if you cant give me average service Im not giving you one ****ing cent.

For average service, you get an average tip 7%. I will not tip ANYONE over 15% of my bill and thats 15% of my pre-tax bill.

A good waiter giving good service at a moderately priced restaurant can handle about 20 tables a night at approximately $100 per table. Giving good service to every one of them is 10 bucks on average (because some people are ****ty tippers and some people are over-tippers because they have small penises and some tables will get good service and some tables wont) per table or 200 bucks a night. These aren't generally people supporting a family, this is generally just out of HS, or college age students or losers that are going no where anyway.

200 bucks a night is a pretty good living for the demographic of waiters.

It always amazes me when people take great pride in being cheap.

Let me ask you this: when you receive poor service and leave no tip, do you have the guts and decency to explain to the server why you don't feel they deserve a tip, or do you wait until they're back is turned and skulk out the door before they realize you left them nothing?

[GreatBronco16]

Originally Posted by Dedhed

It always amazes me when people take great pride in being cheap.

Let me ask you this: when you receive poor service and leave no tip, do you have the guts and decency to explain to the server why you don't feel they deserve a tip, or do you wait until they're back is turned and skulk out the door before they realize you left them nothing?

I remember one time way back in the day, I got some really piss poor service. Can't remember the restaurants name, but it was so bad I left the waitress just a penny for a tip. Some months later we went back and sure enough, she was our waitress again, well she earned herself a much better tip that time.

But to answer your question, if they want to know why they didn't 'EARN' a tip, then they are more than welcome to come and ask.

[Play2win]

All I hear is a whole bunch of (self) Entitlement going on here.

LOL...

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by Dedhed

It always amazes me when people take great pride in being cheap.

Let me ask you this: when you receive poor service and leave no tip, do you have the guts and decency to explain to the server why you don't feel they deserve a tip, or do you wait until they're back is turned and skulk out the door before they realize you left them nothing?

On the one recent occasion where things have been so bad I didn't leave any tip, I was annoyed that I even went to the restaurant that morning. I didn't feel I owed that b**** a thing and leaving without calling her a worthless piece of trash was my good deed for the day.

It's not our job to help them grow and make sure they understand their mistakes. It's not like we're correcting a programming language or something. Take order to cooks, bring food back. Refill drinks when you can see the cups are almost empty. If they can't figure that out, F them.

[GreatBronco16]

Originally Posted by That One Guy

On the one recent occasion where things have been so bad I didn't leave any tip, I was annoyed that I even went to the restaurant that morning. I didn't feel I owed that b**** a thing and leaving without calling her a worthless piece of trash was my good deed for the day.

It's not our job to help them grow and make sure they understand their mistakes. It's not like we're correcting a programming language or something. Take order to cooks, bring food back. Refill drinks when you can see the cups are almost empty. If they can't figure that out, F them.

Damn skippy.

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by Rock Chalk

I was a waiter once upon a time.

And even as a former waiter Im not giving 18% I dont give a **** how good their service is.

You get no tip at all for bad service. Your job as a waiter isn't ****ing hard, if you cant give me average service Im not giving you one ****ing cent.

For average service, you get an average tip 7%. I will not tip ANYONE over 15% of my bill and thats 15% of my pre-tax bill.

A good waiter giving good service at a moderately priced restaurant can handle about 20 tables a night at approximately $100 per table. Giving good service to every one of them is 10 bucks on average (because some people are ****ty tippers and some people are over-tippers because they have small penises and some tables will get good service and some tables wont) per table or 200 bucks a night. These aren't generally people supporting a family, this is generally just out of HS, or college age students or losers that are going no where anyway.

200 bucks a night is a pretty good living for the demographic of waiters.

I love this guy...

[DHallblows]

Originally Posted by Willynowei

Under that link is the following paragraph:

Allocation of Tips

You must allocate tips among employees who receive them if the total tips reported to you during any payroll period are less than 8% (or the approved lower rate) of this establishment's gross receipts for that period.

Generally, the amount allocated is the difference between the total tips reported by employees and 8% (or the lower rate) of the gross receipts, other than nonallocable receipts.

If people are genuinely offended by my rants, don't take my abrasiveness too seriously, if its not obvious, i'm just one of those.

Yeah, reposting the part of your link that proved you incorrect isn't the best path to take in this discussion...

[Dedhed]

Originally Posted by That One Guy

On the one recent occasion where things have been so bad I didn't leave any tip, I was annoyed that I even went to the restaurant that morning. I didn't feel I owed that b**** a thing and leaving without calling her a worthless piece of trash was my good deed for the day.

It's not our job to help them grow and make sure they understand their mistakes. It's not like we're correcting a programming language or something. Take order to cooks, bring food back. Refill drinks when you can see the cups are almost empty. If they can't figure that out, F them.

I guess it comes down to the golden rule in my book. Treat people like you want to be treated. If I get poor service I tell the server why their tip is terrible, and 99% of the time they understand. I tip well because I remember what it felt like to get a great tip, and to me adding another 5% is fairly meaningless to me, but can make someone's day.

It's not your job to help anyone grow, but I've appreciated when random people have helped me grow and understand my mistakes and I go out of my way to do the same for others. It's the #1 reason I am where I am today. I've made more great business connections through restaurants/bars that I frequent than just about anywhere else.

Discounting anyone (F them), imo, is a bad practice that leads nowhere.