The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-03-2013, 12:34 PM   #1
GoBroncos DownUnder
Perennial Pro-bowler
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ex-Australia - now in Da 'Boig!
Posts: 961

Adopt-a-Bronco:
AJ Smith!
Default Will Shields - HoF discussion

Will Shields, one of the NFL's best Guards to ever play is passed up for Hall of Fame induction ...
He should have been a FIRST ballot inductee, this HoF voting crap needs to be FIXED, it's a wash with pompous, self promoting journalists, and they are ****ing this all up repeatedly!

Your thoughts??
GoBroncos DownUnder is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 02-03-2013, 02:44 PM   #2
That One Guy
Producer of Nonsense
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sun and Beachville
Posts: 14,066

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBroncos DownUnder View Post
Will Shields, one of the NFL's best Guards to ever play is passed up for Hall of Fame induction ...
He should have been a FIRST ballot inductee, this HoF voting crap needs to be FIXED, it's a wash with pompous, self promoting journalists, and they are ****ing this all up repeatedly!

Your thoughts??
Guard=Salad

Even when they're the best, they're still a ****ing salad (or guard).
That One Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 03:10 PM   #3
Agamemnon
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

With all the great Broncos getting snubbed year after year I'm supposed to care about Will Shields, a former Chief? Get the **** out of here...
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 03:10 PM   #4
FearLanier
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Shields has 12 pro bowls, named to 2000's all decade team, Walter Payton man of the year award and never missed a game.

But he doesn't have a SB like Ogden or Allen so he gets a bad rap.

This logic should only apply to QB's IMO.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 03:16 PM   #5
Agamemnon
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FearLanier View Post
This logic should only apply to QB's IMO.
It shouldn't apply to anyone IMO. Certainly winning Super Bowls should factor in to the overall assessment, but not to the degree it currently does. Dan Marino is arguably the greatest pure passer in the history of the league but he never had a great team around him so he never won a Super Bowl. Meanwhile Montana was surrounded by HoFers and won four. Elway wouldn't have ever won a Super Bowl without the likes of Terrell Davis, Shannon Sharpe, and many other great players. Using Super Bowls or the lack thereof to assess someone's career, QB or otherwise, is patently retarded.

Oh and I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that Terry Bradshaw (a QB probably on par with Trent Dilfer) is in the HoF because he was on one of the most dominant teams of all-time. If this isn't a perfect example of why merely being on championship teams shouldn't get you in to the Hall, I don't know what is.

Last edited by Agamemnon; 02-03-2013 at 03:22 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 03:21 PM   #6
That One Guy
Producer of Nonsense
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sun and Beachville
Posts: 14,066

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
It shouldn't apply to anyone IMO. Certainly winning Super Bowls should factor in to the overall assessment, but not to the degree it currently does. Dan Marino is arguably the greatest pure passer in the history of the league but he never had a great team around him so he never won a Super Bowl. Meanwhile Montana was surrounded by HoFers and won four. Elway wouldn't have ever won a Super Bowl without the likes of Terrell Davis, Shannon Sharpe, and many other great players. Using Super Bowls or the lack thereof to assess someone's career, QB or otherwise, is patently retarded.
I gotta agree. But I also agree noone should win merely for being on a winner and accumulating stats based on the teammates (I'm looking at you, Emmitt).
That One Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 03:50 PM   #7
KipCorrington25
Free Safety
 
KipCorrington25's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Centennial
Posts: 3,565
Default

He played for KC so his career was basically invisible. Never played in a big games and in a tiny, crappy market. The witness protection program sends guys to play for the Chiefs because they know they won't get noticed.
KipCorrington25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 04:28 PM   #8
FearLanier
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KipCorrington25 View Post
He played for KC so his career was basically invisible. Never played in a big games and in a tiny, crappy market. The witness protection program sends guys to play for the Chiefs because they know they won't get noticed.
The Chiefs were one of the most recognized and popular teams in the 90's. They were also pretty popular under Dick Vermeil.

But we aren't on the east coast and nobody west of the Mississippi matters to them.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 04:47 PM   #9
Willynowei
Some dude
 
Willynowei's Avatar
 
Football is a wonderful thing.

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 3,027

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Ryan Clady
Default

Along with Willie Roaf, Will Shields anchored the greatest offensive line in NFL history, that's right you heard it here first. Mid 2000's line =

T- Willie Roaf
G - Brian Waters
C - Casey Wigman
G - Will Shields
T - John Tait

That line was so good it made Trent Green and Priest Holmes - two terrible players, look like All Pros and carried a team leading the league in scoring with Eddy Kennifag as their best wideout.

If that line played in Dallas, all 5 would be first ballot hall of famers.
Willynowei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 04:56 PM   #10
GoBroncos DownUnder
Perennial Pro-bowler
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ex-Australia - now in Da 'Boig!
Posts: 961

Adopt-a-Bronco:
AJ Smith!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willynowei View Post
Along with Willie Roaf, Will Shields anchored the greatest offensive line in NFL history, that's right you heard it here first. Mid 2000's line =

T- Willie Roaf
G - Brian Waters
C - Casey Wigman
G - Will Shields
T - John Tait

That line was so good it made Trent Green and Priest Holmes - two terrible players, look like All Pros and carried a team leading the league in scoring with Eddy Kennifag as their best wideout.

If that line played in Dallas, all 5 would be first ballot hall of famers.
Oh, and Elvis Grbac!
GoBroncos DownUnder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 05:28 PM   #11
Kaylore
Shall we begin?
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
You should have let me sleep!

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 45,965

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
With all the great Broncos getting snubbed year after year I'm supposed to care about Will Shields, a former Chief? Get the **** out of here...
This.
Kaylore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 07:14 PM   #12
gunns
I WANT DEFENSE!
 
gunns's Avatar
 
Defense, defense, defense

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Always Hoping
Posts: 12,531

Adopt-a-Bronco:
TJ Ward
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
It shouldn't apply to anyone IMO. Certainly winning Super Bowls should factor in to the overall assessment, but not to the degree it currently does. Dan Marino is arguably the greatest pure passer in the history of the league but he never had a great team around him so he never won a Super Bowl. Meanwhile Montana was surrounded by HoFers and won four. Elway wouldn't have ever won a Super Bowl without the likes of Terrell Davis, Shannon Sharpe, and many other great players. Using Super Bowls or the lack thereof to assess someone's career, QB or otherwise, is patently retarded.

Oh and I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that Terry Bradshaw (a QB probably on par with Trent Dilfer) is in the HoF because he was on one of the most dominant teams of all-time. If this isn't a perfect example of why merely being on championship teams shouldn't get you in to the Hall, I don't know what is.
I agree with this. Except that Marino never had a great team. Maybe not great but he had better teams than Elway did for his first 3 SB's. Thank you, thank you for stating that about Bradshaw. The word overrated has his picture by it in the dictionary.

I agree that Shields should have gotten in. I don't believe the SB should be a deciding factor and I agree with who said those getting in by merely getting stats because of their teammates.....and longevity. I'm looking at you Bettis. But until they start recognizing Bronco players I'm not going to freak out over a Chief not getting in. I'm still doing that over Bronco players.
gunns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 08:09 PM   #13
Agamemnon
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willynowei View Post
Along with Willie Roaf, Will Shields anchored the greatest offensive line in NFL history, that's right you heard it here first. Mid 2000's line =

T- Willie Roaf
G - Brian Waters
C - Casey Wigman
G - Will Shields
T - John Tait

That line was so good it made Trent Green and Priest Holmes - two terrible players, look like All Pros and carried a team leading the league in scoring with Eddy Kennifag as their best wideout.

If that line played in Dallas, all 5 would be first ballot hall of famers.
Greatest offensive line of all-time?

The greatest offensive line of all-time should have produced at least one playoff win don't you think? Just ask the late 90's Broncos o-line or the early to mid 90's Cowboys o-line.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 08:12 PM   #14
Willynowei
Some dude
 
Willynowei's Avatar
 
Football is a wonderful thing.

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 3,027

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Ryan Clady
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
Greatest offensive line of all-time?

The greatest offensive line of all-time should have produced at least one playoff win don't you think? Just ask the late 90's Broncos o-line or the early to mid 90's Cowboys o-line.
Did you know there's 11 guys on the other side called defense and a qb, runningback and 4 other eligible recievers in football?

And O-lines aren't judged the same way as Quarterbacks genius, its rare that 5 players play on the same line for more than 1 year, nevermind the 10+ years that top QB's play.

Last edited by Willynowei; 02-03-2013 at 08:15 PM..
Willynowei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 08:22 PM   #15
Agamemnon
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willynowei View Post
Did you know there's 11 guys on the other side called defense and a qb, runningback and 4 other eligible recievers in football?

O-lines aren't judged the same way as Quarterbacks, dumbass, its rare that 5 players play on teh same line for more than 1 year, nevermind the 10+ years that top QB's play.
O-lines most certainly are judged like QBs, at least by those who have a clue. An o-line is arguably the most important aspect of a team, possibly even more important than QB (as a unit). Besides let's not pretend the Chiefs didn't have tons of talent elsewhere in the mid 2000's.

You made the statement that they were the greatest o-line of all-time, but there is zero evidence of that. No playoff wins. No 2000 yard rushers. Nothing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 09:55 PM   #16
Willynowei
Some dude
 
Willynowei's Avatar
 
Football is a wonderful thing.

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 3,027

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Ryan Clady
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
O-lines most certainly are judged like QBs, at least by those who have a clue. An o-line is arguably the most important aspect of a team, possibly even more important than QB (as a unit). Besides let's not pretend the Chiefs didn't have tons of talent elsewhere in the mid 2000's.

You made the statement that they were the greatest o-line of all-time, but there is zero evidence of that. No playoff wins. No 2000 yard rushers. Nothing.
That's exactly what i'm saying - they had ZERO talent elsewhere outside of Tony Gonzalez. Priest Holmes couldn't keep a starting job in Baltimore before Jamal Lewis even broke out, Trent Green is famous only for getting injured so Warner could play. The defense literally had ZERO talent, ZERO. Their first good defensive player - Jared Allen got drafted just before the team fell apart offensively.

That Chiefs O-line dominated every unit put up against it, including the Colts, as they put up 35 points against them, its not their fault if Trent Green misses a third down throw or Kennison drops them more often than he catches them.

And frankly, the way you judge is retarded and exactly how the media looks at things - from the lense of a casual fan. Its the same lense that makes the HOF a joke. Its the same lense that will put Eli Manning in the same light as his brother, whose 10 times the QB he is. Whole thing is a joke.

If you actually appreciate good football above all else, watching that line play, its obvious they were the best ever, you can see it in their footwork and physical mauling of everyone that went up against them, Trent had 10 yards of space and 10 seconds to throw, and that's not even an exaggeration.

Last edited by Willynowei; 02-03-2013 at 09:59 PM..
Willynowei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 11:10 PM   #17
DBroncos4life
Hey pic Mod!?!?! FU
 
DBroncos4life's Avatar
 
Bacon bits

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: The wrong side of right.
Posts: 28,772

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Julius "Fluff"
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by That One Guy View Post
Guard=Salad

Even when they're the best, they're still a ****ing salad (or guard).
God you are a ****ing retard.
DBroncos4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 11:12 PM   #18
Bob's your Information Minister
Chiefs > Broncos
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 26,121

Adopt-a-Bronco:
CHRIS KUPER!!!
Default

He's still a guard at the end of the day.
Bob's your Information Minister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 11:52 PM   #19
Archer81
Optimum Homo
 
Archer81's Avatar
 
Tactical Neck.

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 22,557
Default

Apparently it pays to work for the NFL's network. Strahan was a better player than Sapp, hands down.

Archer81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 01:05 AM   #20
extralife
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,977
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
Meanwhile Montana was surrounded by HoFers and won four.
I'm so, so sick of this logic. Do you know who those hall of famers were surrounded by? Joe ****ing Montana. Look at his playoff resume.

Oh, and then there's the little matter of the first two super bowls. Lets look at the starting offense for your 1984 San Francisco 49ers:

Joe Montana, Roger Craig, Wendell Tyler, Freddie Solomon, Dwight Clark, Bubba Paris, John Ayers, Fred Quillan, Randy Cross, Keith Fahnhorst.

that team went 15-1 and had the number 2 offense in the NFL.

lets scroll through that list and pick out the hall of famers. I think I see...one? What was his name? Oh yeah: Joe ****ing Montana.

Roger Craig was boderline great, Clark and Solomon were fairly average, Tyler was a pretty good player, Randy Cross was a very good guard. That's not an offensive roster that's blowing anyone away. Give it to the Broncos and you'd call it pretty good. The 81 team was not any better. People remember Jerry Rice because he's Jerry Rice, but Montana won two super bowls without that guy.
extralife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 07:14 AM   #21
Kaylore
Shall we begin?
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
You should have let me sleep!

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 45,965

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by extralife View Post
I'm so, so sick of this logic. Do you know who those hall of famers were surrounded by? Joe ****ing Montana. Look at his playoff resume.

Oh, and then there's the little matter of the first two super bowls. Lets look at the starting offense for your 1984 San Francisco 49ers:

Joe Montana, Roger Craig, Wendell Tyler, Freddie Solomon, Dwight Clark, Bubba Paris, John Ayers, Fred Quillan, Randy Cross, Keith Fahnhorst.

that team went 15-1 and had the number 2 offense in the NFL.

lets scroll through that list and pick out the hall of famers. I think I see...one? What was his name? Oh yeah: Joe ****ing Montana.

Roger Craig was boderline great, Clark and Solomon were fairly average, Tyler was a pretty good player, Randy Cross was a very good guard. That's not an offensive roster that's blowing anyone away. Give it to the Broncos and you'd call it pretty good. The 81 team was not any better. People remember Jerry Rice because he's Jerry Rice, but Montana won two super bowls without that guy.
Rep. This is a very good response. You can love Elway without trying to turn Joe into a crappy player. It took Joe Monana to give the Chiefs their only playoff win since the sixties. He should be one of the GOATs just for that alone.
Kaylore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 07:26 AM   #22
Requiem
~~~
 
Requiem's Avatar
 
~ ~ ~

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Earth Division
Posts: 23,325

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Princes of Tara
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBroncos4life View Post
God you are a ****ing retard.
Guards are like brussel sprouts.
Requiem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 07:26 AM   #23
gyldenlove
Ring of Famer
 
gyldenlove's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nęstved, DK
Posts: 11,040

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Spencer Larsen
Default

Some positions are just not valued right. We saw it with Shannon Sharpe who set the standard for tight ends and still had to wait to get in, now Will Shields who set the marker for offensive guards and Ray Guy who will probably not get in until he qualifies as one of the 2 old time candidates.
gyldenlove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 07:32 AM   #24
SimonFletcher73
Pro Bowler
 
SimonFletcher73's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Denver
Posts: 687

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Goose Gonsoulin
Default

This is going to be a long offseason.
SimonFletcher73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 07:42 AM   #25
Tombstone RJ
Ring of Famer
 
Tombstone RJ's Avatar
 
Old School

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Tetons!
Posts: 22,038

Adopt-a-Bronco:
WorrellWilliams
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBroncos DownUnder View Post
Will Shields, one of the NFL's best Guards to ever play is passed up for Hall of Fame induction ...
He should have been a FIRST ballot inductee, this HoF voting crap needs to be FIXED, it's a wash with pompous, self promoting journalists, and they are ****ing this all up repeatedly!

Your thoughts??
Gotta agree. What is the HoF about? It's about the best players to ever play the game on the professional level, get acknowledged for how great they played the game. period.

You can't win games without guards, sorry. Sure it's not as glamorous as other positions but all the oline positions are there for a reason.
Tombstone RJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:50 AM.


Denver Broncos