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Old 01-26-2013, 10:28 AM   #26
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I usually pay for software that I use, but like Drek said, there are so many free alternatives out there it's not really necessary to pirate anyways. Another way to legally obtain them is too look for a year or 2 older versions where the latest updates aren't needed. A couple of years ago I bought a one year past Quicken version for something like $8. I still use Office 2000 from when I was given a free copy back then thanks to the dot com bust (our company had an entire closet full of discs, with not enough employees to use them and still laying off people), it's not like you really need to update Office every year.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:29 AM   #27
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dont kid yourself, anybody that has sex, pays for it, some pay in cash directly, others pay in dinners, shoes, jewelry. Sometimes i think cash directly might be easier.
I married my Sex Partner and have amortized the payments over 30 Years. As a bonus I get meals, and Cleaning for free.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:45 AM   #28
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I don't think I have a single unlicensed program on my computer, which is a big change from 5 years ago when it was pretty much all downloaded and installed without paying.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:57 AM   #29
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dont kid yourself, anybody that has sex, pays for it, some pay in cash directly, others pay in dinners, shoes, jewelry. Sometimes i think cash directly might be easier.
Hahaha, so ****ing true!
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:59 AM   #30
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Did you ever think that maybe you got infected because you didn't have an AV running? A quality AV (not norton, mcafee, etc) will save your ass a ton of headaches.
Maybe that's the issue. I've tried a few different brands but never much more than Norton's or McAfee. I always figure they should be capable of clearing a virus as well as preventing so when they can't clear, I assume they're as incapable at preventing. Especially in my younger days and as a kid, the computers we had were barely functional so running an AV preventatively seemed like a waste.

So it's a hard question to deal with: Did I not get infected because I have an AV or did I just not come across a virus?
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Old 01-26-2013, 11:07 AM   #31
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99% of all software a home user might actually need has an open source alternative to the commercial rip off.

OpenOffice, The Gimp, etc.

Unless you are
a.) Trying to get a job that requires a particular piece of software (i.e. Photoshop)

or

b.) like wasting money

then just use open source.
This.
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Old 01-26-2013, 11:11 AM   #32
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I can't afford photoshop so i use the free program GIMP. Not as good but i get by with it. i can't lie though i am no better because I have downloaded a lot of free music.

We basically justified a way of stealing because its so easy and not looked on like regular theiving from a store or something.
Its a great experiment on human behavoir.
If I steal your car, you no longer have a car. If I steal a car from a dealership, they no longer have a car. I replaced Office Starter (ad-based) with Office 2010 today. What was different in the world? How would the world be different if I hadn't made a thread asking other people about it?

If I couldn't have had office for free, I'd have kept using starter for free. Totally different stealing intellectual property from physical theft.
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Old 01-26-2013, 11:23 AM   #33
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If I steal your car, you no longer have a car. If I steal a car from a dealership, they no longer have a car. I replaced Office Starter (ad-based) with Office 2010 today. What was different in the world? How would the world be different if I hadn't made a thread asking other people about it?

If I couldn't have had office for free, I'd have kept using starter for free. Totally different stealing intellectual property from physical theft.
Does this help you sleep at night? It is totally just a justification of your actions. If I run downtown and steal a Vagina but only for a night that is fine. Cause she still has a vagina.
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Old 01-26-2013, 11:35 AM   #34
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Does this help you sleep at night? It is totally just a justification of your actions. If I run downtown and steal a Vagina but only for a night that is fine. Cause she still has a vagina.
not the same, if he took the girl, and made a copy of her vagina and used it, without actually using hers it would be the same.
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Old 01-26-2013, 11:41 AM   #35
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Maybe that's the issue. I've tried a few different brands but never much more than Norton's or McAfee. I always figure they should be capable of clearing a virus as well as preventing so when they can't clear, I assume they're as incapable at preventing. Especially in my younger days and as a kid, the computers we had were barely functional so running an AV preventatively seemed like a waste.

So it's a hard question to deal with: Did I not get infected because I have an AV or did I just not come across a virus?
Funny enough, most knowledgeable users consider Norton and McAfee to be two of the worst AV options on the market. They're bloated, have heavy handed update systems, and honestly aren't even updated as quickly as the free alternative. Also, since they're the OEM standard they're also the ones most targeted to beat.

I'm personally partial to AVG. Keep it from installing the secure search ad ons and it's a very unobtrusive, highly effective anti-virus with a sub-5 MB footprint. I've used Avira quite a bit as well though and it is a quality program in it's own right.

AVG plus Malware Bytes (disable run at start-up) and CCleaner basically goes above and beyond the functionality of Norton Systemworks with at worst 10% of the memory footprint, 5% of the CPU clock cycles, and zero money out of pocket.

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If I steal your car, you no longer have a car. If I steal a car from a dealership, they no longer have a car. I replaced Office Starter (ad-based) with Office 2010 today. What was different in the world? How would the world be different if I hadn't made a thread asking other people about it?

If I couldn't have had office for free, I'd have kept using starter for free. Totally different stealing intellectual property from physical theft.
I would agree, and the penalties shouldn't be the same as larceny in it's original form, but it is still stealing, by even your own description.

What's worse, it's a pointless crime more akin to vandalism since there are high quality options available for free that your support could, in the long run, spur serious competition and innovation within the industry.
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Old 01-26-2013, 11:52 AM   #36
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Does this help you sleep at night? It is totally just a justification of your actions. If I run downtown and steal a Vagina but only for a night that is fine. Cause she still has a vagina.
Let's put it this way: If a crime can be committed in the safety of your own home and you're the ONLY person that knows it happened, it wasn't a crime.

If you rape someone, obviously that's different. I feel stupid even responding to your post.
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Old 01-26-2013, 11:55 AM   #37
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For the record I justify my stealing by saying that I would be using the free versions, or just doing without if I didnt steal, so the company I am stealing from didnt actually lose a sale, so they are really out nothing.
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Old 01-26-2013, 11:57 AM   #38
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What's worse, it's a pointless crime more akin to vandalism since there are high quality options available for free that your support could, in the long run, spur serious competition and innovation within the industry.
That's a very good point. Assuming people don't get greedy because they have a large following and either start charging or ruin the product for profit (I'm looking at you, PFT), the alternatives are being deprived.

The question, though, is are these startups ever capable of being as good as the established?
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:23 PM   #39
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Let's put it this way: If a crime can be committed in the safety of your own home and you're the ONLY person that knows it happened, it wasn't a crime.

If you rape someone, obviously that's different. I feel stupid even responding to your post.
So by your own admission if the developer catches you it is a crime.
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:44 PM   #40
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That's a very good point. Assuming people don't get greedy because they have a large following and either start charging or ruin the product for profit (I'm looking at you, PFT), the alternatives are being deprived.

The question, though, is are these startups ever capable of being as good as the established?
Well, since the freeware alternatives to antivirus are already superior I'd say yes, they are quite capable of being better than the established standard.

And if the free options did get too big for their britches you can be sure another freeware alternative will rise up to knock them down as well.

The only thing that keeps overpriced software the standard is people refusing to try the alternatives. Look at Windows as an OS. It's been jank for years, everyone complained, but everyone used it. Now that compelling options are appearing on other formats (iOS and Android, most notably) we're suddenly seeing MS scramble to keep Windows alive with declining sales numbers.

Instead of just tolerating a single product's hegemony people were willing to try the alternatives. End result - market turnover leading to innovation and competition. That's good for us end consumers.
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:16 PM   #41
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So by your own admission if the developer catches you it is a crime.
WTF is the developer doing in my house?
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:22 PM   #42
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Well, since the freeware alternatives to antivirus are already superior I'd say yes, they are quite capable of being better than the established standard.

And if the free options did get too big for their britches you can be sure another freeware alternative will rise up to knock them down as well.

The only thing that keeps overpriced software the standard is people refusing to try the alternatives. Look at Windows as an OS. It's been jank for years, everyone complained, but everyone used it. Now that compelling options are appearing on other formats (iOS and Android, most notably) we're suddenly seeing MS scramble to keep Windows alive with declining sales numbers.

Instead of just tolerating a single product's hegemony people were willing to try the alternatives. End result - market turnover leading to innovation and competition. That's good for us end consumers.
Well the AVs are a different ballgame. I'm asking about the big things, though. For a long time, all the open source OSs were just nerds wanting to go against the grain. For all intents and purposes, they were not serious competitors with anyone.

Are the other programs going to ever be better than the expensive programs? Are these substitution programs going to overtake Office, Photoshop, etc, in quality?

Not trying to justify downloading anything at this point, just curious if these big dogs stay big dogs because they are the big dogs or if they're just still popular due to marketing and name recognition.
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:48 PM   #43
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WTF is the developer doing in my house?
Digging in the sofa for the money you stole from him.
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Old 01-26-2013, 04:38 PM   #44
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So I just got my laptop back from getting repaired and I'm having to install a bunch of software to do some work. I'm grabbing photoshop, MS Office, and daemon tools to install them at the current moment. If I paid for everything, that'd be well over $1000 for pretty much just two programs. I'm just curious if anyone actually pays for these things on their home PCs? My philosophy is that these things are really catered to the professional market and they understand the prices are unreasonable and the home users will just pirate them.

In a way, you might even argue that using them at home makes people more proficient in them and makes it more of a necessity for professional environments to buy them.

Anyways, just curious, do you guys pay for this software? Is there a cutoff where you draw the line? Or if you can't afford it, do you just not have it?
So if you work for a company with an MS ea, you mos likely have home use rights.
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Old 01-26-2013, 05:31 PM   #45
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AVG plus Malware Bytes (disable run at start-up) and CCleaner basically goes above and beyond the functionality of Norton Systemworks with at worst 10% of the memory footprint, 5% of the CPU clock cycles, and zero money out of pocket.
That's the combination I use too.

I also occasionally use for Trend Micro's Housecall online virus scanner, for PCs brought to me for cleanup.
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:22 PM   #46
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Well the AVs are a different ballgame. I'm asking about the big things, though. For a long time, all the open source OSs were just nerds wanting to go against the grain. For all intents and purposes, they were not serious competitors with anyone.

Are the other programs going to ever be better than the expensive programs? Are these substitution programs going to overtake Office, Photoshop, etc, in quality?

Not trying to justify downloading anything at this point, just curious if these big dogs stay big dogs because they are the big dogs or if they're just still popular due to marketing and name recognition.
Well, depends on what you're looking for.

I'd argue that the whole "parents having their kids set up and manage their computer for them, when all they want is email and internet" deal is best done via Linux, Ubuntu to be exact. Don't give them admin access and they'll have a rock solid environment with very few risks of hacks,viruses, bugs, etc.. It also comes pre-loaded with office software, CD authoring software, web browser, etc..

That's on the OS front.

As for Office software - does it 1. piss you off that MS took Access out of office or 2. preferred the pre-ribbon user interface? Then LibreOffice is for you as it includes their knock off of Access and uses a Windows 2003-esque layout as opposed to the Office '07 format that has been pusehd but definitely not became mainstream. Hidden benefit, if you do a lot of international business you've likely ran into some European companies that prefer Corell. LibreOffice has no problems opening and saving to their file type.

And for AV editing - Photoshop is a bloated nas hell. For 90% of what the average home user will ever use Gimp of Paint.NET would cover them cheaper and allow mroe effective multi-tasking.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:02 PM   #47
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Well, depends on what you're looking for.

I'd argue that the whole "parents having their kids set up and manage their computer for them, when all they want is email and internet" deal is best done via Linux, Ubuntu to be exact. Don't give them admin access and they'll have a rock solid environment with very few risks of hacks,viruses, bugs, etc.. It also comes pre-loaded with office software, CD authoring software, web browser, etc..

That's on the OS front.

As for Office software - does it 1. piss you off that MS took Access out of office or 2. preferred the pre-ribbon user interface? Then LibreOffice is for you as it includes their knock off of Access and uses a Windows 2003-esque layout as opposed to the Office '07 format that has been pusehd but definitely not became mainstream. Hidden benefit, if you do a lot of international business you've likely ran into some European companies that prefer Corell. LibreOffice has no problems opening and saving to their file type.

And for AV editing - Photoshop is a bloated nas hell. For 90% of what the average home user will ever use Gimp of Paint.NET would cover them cheaper and allow mroe effective multi-tasking.
Interesting. I'm wiping the wife's laptop right now (not innuendo) and I'll have to check those out - particularly the photoshop alternative. Thanks
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:57 PM   #48
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dont kid yourself, anybody that has sex, pays for it, some pay in cash directly, others pay in dinners, shoes, jewelry. Sometimes i think cash directly might be easier.
Certainly less long term issues.

That said with my second marriage (first one was way young to make smart decision) is going on thirty some odd years with the same woman, has been well worth the money invested.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:17 PM   #49
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Cars are way too expensive. They basically are asking people to steal them. Plus, as long as you bring it back every morning before the dealership realizes it's gone, its not a crime right guys?
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:27 PM   #50
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Cars are way too expensive. They basically are asking people to steal them. Plus, as long as you bring it back every morning before the dealership realizes it's gone, its not a crime right guys?
To make your analogy correct you would be able to clone that car instantly for no cost then steal it. How would that effect your scenario?
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