The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Jibba Jabba > The Horses Butt
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-24-2013, 12:51 PM   #251
BroncoBeavis
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
Yes, it's the one TT couldn't run. It's the one that was shelved and replaced with the spread offense TT could manage. It's the one that got Jake Delhomme to the SB and within 3 points of a SB win. Not sure what McGrubber's point is other than he has no point.
Funny, since I thought McCoy said that they went into '11 with the system McDaniels left behind.
 
Old 01-24-2013, 12:54 PM   #252
MacGruder
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2KBack View Post
You don't have a goddamn point.

I used ot hink you were crazy...now I think you are just dumb.

the only passing statistic affected by running the ball is passing attempts....that's it. Completion % is based on how often the ball you passed is caught by another member of the team. If you run....there is no attempt. If there is no attempt...there is no catch/incompletion. Without those two things, there can be no Passing %. The fact that he has such a low% spits in the face of your claim he is the efficient QB. 63% of the time he threw the ball....something negative happened.


You are dumb
The point is.. what if you remove the running attempt and instead insert a short yardage passing attempt in it's place and add those yards to the passing numbers and efficiency?

How many times did Orton pad his stats with short passing attempts? Same thing... Or screen passes.. Fox wouldn't let Tebow even use screens because they didn't fit in with his philosophy..

Even Elway admitted Tebow's numbers were down because he was told to throw deep so much.. that facilitated Fox's run heavy style..

You know what all those short passing attempts guys like Orton and Peyton use do to your run game? They kill it...

Last edited by MacGruder; 01-24-2013 at 12:58 PM..
 
Old 01-24-2013, 12:56 PM   #253
Tombstone RJ
Ring of Famer
 
Tombstone RJ's Avatar
 
Old School

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Tetons!
Posts: 22,116

Adopt-a-Bronco:
WorrellWilliams
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
Funny, since I thought McCoy said that they went into '11 with the system McDaniels left behind.
I don't recall that. I'm pretty sure that was not the case because if you remember, Orton wasn't happy with the "new offense" and his numbers reflected that. Also, Brandon Lloyd wasn't happy either. Orton sucked. Enter Tebow.

Last edited by Tombstone RJ; 01-24-2013 at 12:58 PM..
Tombstone RJ is offline  
Old 01-24-2013, 01:01 PM   #254
MacGruder
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Fox said all the Qbs woudl run the same system... when Tebow entered they ran a couple more option run plays but it was still the same system. To claim fox was running Urban Meyers spread offense is ludicrous and asinine..

Fox wasn't even using McD's system he had used before Fox got there... that shows you they were doing Tebow no favors because McD's system was built for Tebow...
 
Old 01-24-2013, 01:08 PM   #255
Tombstone RJ
Ring of Famer
 
Tombstone RJ's Avatar
 
Old School

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Tetons!
Posts: 22,116

Adopt-a-Bronco:
WorrellWilliams
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGruder View Post
Fox said all the Qbs woudl run the same system... when Tebow entered they ran a couple more option run plays but it was still the same system. To claim fox was running Urban Meyers spread offense is ludicrous and asinine..

Fox wasn't even using McD's system he had used before Fox got there... that shows you they were doing Tebow no favors because McD's system was built for Tebow...
No one said it was Urban Meyer's system. You are projecting again. You claim Meyer's system is the one the Broncos should have run but didn't. Fact is, the Broncos totally revamped the entire offense to provide TT with an offense he could run successfully. And it worked for a while anyway.
Tombstone RJ is offline  
Old 01-24-2013, 01:14 PM   #256
2KBack
Rumblin' Bumblin'
 
2KBack's Avatar
 
Cake is delicious

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wash DC
Posts: 7,842
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGruder View Post
The point is.. what if you remove the running attempt and instead insert a short yardage passing attempt in it's place and add those yards to the passing numbers and efficiency?

How many times did Orton pad his stats with short passing attempts? Same thing... Or screen passes.. Fox wouldn't let Tebow even use screens because they didn't fit in with his philosophy..

Even Elway admitted Tebow's numbers were down because he was told to throw deep so much.. that facilitated Fox's run heavy style..

You know what all those short passing attempts guys like Orton and Peyton use do to your run game? They kill it...
You don't get to pick and choose imaginary stats. You don't get to say, well if he passed when he ran obviously he would be completing those. That's not how the world works.

Quit pretending you know what you are talking about. Orton's yards per attempt were HIGHER than Tebow's, as was Peyton's.

Maybe you should go back to trying to claim that Tebow is as good as the Great Jake Delhomme. If it's one thing we want, it's another Jake Delhomme.

Or you could continue to go with the idea that Tebow is better than Manning despite every single piece of evidence telling you otherwise.

What is it about truth, it goes through 3 Phases correct?

How long are you going to sit in the denial phase?
2KBack is offline  
Old 01-24-2013, 01:20 PM   #257
BroncoBeavis
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
I don't recall that. I'm pretty sure that was not the case because if you remember, Orton wasn't happy with the "new offense" and his numbers reflected that. Also, Brandon Lloyd wasn't happy either. Orton sucked. Enter Tebow.
No, I'm 99% sure he said they were keeping the system. I'm sure they tweaked some things, especially in overall game plan, but if anything, that was McCoy. I'm not sure how it could be branded a "Fox system" though.

If anything he might of imparted an overall philosophy on gameplan/playcalling. But he didn't bring in anything resembling his own offensive system, if such a thing exists. If he was using his own system in Carolina, he might want to blame that on someone else.

And IMHO Orton looked pretty equally terrible in his last few McDaniels game as he did in his first few McCoy games.
 
Old 01-24-2013, 01:20 PM   #258
MacGruder
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
No one said it was Urban Meyer's system. You are projecting again. You claim Meyer's system is the one the Broncos should have run but didn't. Fact is, the Broncos totally revamped the entire offense to provide TT with an offense he could run successfully. And it worked for a while anyway.
So running a couple trick option plays = revamping the O for Tebow? Again.. someone who takes what the media tells them as gospel when it's total BS.
 
Old 01-24-2013, 01:26 PM   #259
MacGruder
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2KBack View Post
You don't get to pick and choose imaginary stats. You don't get to say, well if he passed when he ran obviously he would be completing those. That's not how the world works.

Quit pretending you know what you are talking about. Orton's yards per attempt were HIGHER than Tebow's, as was Peyton's.

Maybe you should go back to trying to claim that Tebow is as good as the Great Jake Delhomme. If it's one thing we want, it's another Jake Delhomme.

Or you could continue to go with the idea that Tebow is better than Manning despite every single piece of evidence telling you otherwise.

What is it about truth, it goes through 3 Phases correct?

How long are you going to sit in the denial phase?
That isn't what I said nimrod...

My point is it doesn't matter if you run or pass.. the effect is similar... regardless of whether the crappy number evaluation system reflects it....

Also, having a high completion percentage isn't a good thing if it kills your run game.. which is why your silly completion % stat is totally meaningless.

Peyton had stellar numbers by conventional standards.. yet DelHomme went to the superbowl and Peyton didn't...
 
Old 01-24-2013, 01:29 PM   #260
Tombstone RJ
Ring of Famer
 
Tombstone RJ's Avatar
 
Old School

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Tetons!
Posts: 22,116

Adopt-a-Bronco:
WorrellWilliams
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGruder View Post
So running a couple trick option plays = revamping the O for Tebow? Again.. someone who takes what the media tells them as gospel when it's total BS.


Listen, I know you are just trying to stir the pot. I get it, really, I do. Why you have not been banned from the OMane is really quite beyond me. It's obvious you are just arguing to argue.

I like TT. I'm grateful for the season he provided the Broncos. It was fun, it was thrilling and it was temporary. While I admire TT for his faith, that is, his convictions and his amazing ability to inspire people, I also see his limitations as a QB. No one wants to see TT succeed more than me! But the fact is he really, really needs to work on his passing game. There's just no getting around this. Now I understand you like to claim he was sabotaged by Elway and Fox, whatever. But the fact remains the same that when the Bronco acquired a HoF QB in Manning, they got better, and not just a little better, a heck of a lot better.

My best wishes go out to TT and always will. As for you my friend, peace and out.
Tombstone RJ is offline  
Old 01-24-2013, 01:35 PM   #261
MacGruder
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

The Broncos didn't really get better though.... in fact when Peytion was forced to run the same offense Tebow was with Fox he was worse...

When they changed their style and let Peyton do what he wnated they LOOKed BETTER
 
Old 01-24-2013, 01:37 PM   #262
MacGruder
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

When Peyton was forced to run Tebow's offense he looked worse than Tebow not better.. when he ran his own O he made the team look better i the regular season and played worse in the playoffs.

Peyton also had delrio and vet receivers...
 
Old 01-24-2013, 01:41 PM   #263
Drunken.Broncoholic
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGruder View Post
When Peyton was forced to run Tebow's offense he looked worse than Tebow not better.. when he ran his own O he made the team look better i the regular season and played worse in the playoffs.

Peyton also had delrio and vet receivers...
Why would Peyton need to run a lumberjack dumbed down pop Warner type offense? He can actually throw the ball. No need to gimmick up an offense to offset basic QB deficiencies that tebow has.
 
Old 01-24-2013, 01:44 PM   #264
MacGruder
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic View Post
Why would Peyton need to run a lumberjack dumbed down pop Warner type offense? He can actually throw the ball. No need to gimmick up an offense to offset basic QB deficiencies that tebow has.
I have explained this many times.. Fox does this o protect the D.. he did it with Del Homme.. did it with Tebow and Peyton.. it's called "complementary football".

Tebow gets the blame when in fac he was really carrying the D because he made the Broncos so dominant running the ball... Something Peyton couldn't do...
 
Old 01-24-2013, 01:49 PM   #265
2KBack
Rumblin' Bumblin'
 
2KBack's Avatar
 
Cake is delicious

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wash DC
Posts: 7,842
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGruder View Post
That isn't what I said nimrod...

My point is it doesn't matter if you run or pass.. the effect is similar... regardless of whether the crappy number evaluation system reflects it....

Also, having a high completion percentage isn't a good thing if it kills your run game.. which is why your silly completion % stat is totally meaningless.

Peyton had stellar numbers by conventional standards.. yet DelHomme went to the superbowl and Peyton didn't...
The effect isn't similar nimrod. On what planet does an effective pass game kill a run game? It may reduce the yardage by creating balance in the offense, but that yardage is made up for with the pass game. By your own admission, this is an acceptable trade off. Because run yards and pass yards (by your own statement) are interchangeable. Tebow cannot be leaned upon in the pass game....all professional evidence suggests this, college stats are not admissible in the professional scope (that's why Sage Rosenfels and Eric Crouch aren't in the HOF).

You know what....I'm going to take the Tombstone road. I am the fool for attempting to discuss with a person hell bent on being a nuisance above all else. I never once rooted against Tebow, I think he's a good kid. I do think he has failed as a professional QB...and there's nothing wrong with that. Not everyone can do it.

You though, I am done with you.
2KBack is offline  
Old 01-24-2013, 01:51 PM   #266
Drunken.Broncoholic
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGruder View Post
I have explained this many times.. Fox does this o protect the D.. he did it with Del Homme.. did it with Tebow and Peyton.. it's called "complementary football".

Tebow gets the blame when in fac he was really carrying the D because he made the Broncos so dominant running the ball... Something Peyton couldn't do...
Another lie. Tebow was a 3 and out waiting to happen. For 3 1/2 quarters the offense couldn't stay on the field. That hardly helps the defense. There were PLENTY of passing plays tebow was handed. Problem was he was too stupid to go through progressions and looked to run the moment he had the ball. Got scared and ran in circles. Bye bye passing play. Blown up by your hero.
 
Old 01-24-2013, 01:54 PM   #267
MacGruder
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic View Post
Another lie. Tebow was a 3 and out waiting to happen. For 3 1/2 quarters the offense couldn't stay on the field. That hardly helps the defense. There were PLENTY of passing plays tebow was handed. Problem was he was too stupid to go through progressions and looked to run the moment he had the ball. Got scared and ran in circles. Bye bye passing play. Blown up by your hero.
He had tom run because the line couldn't protect him... same reason Peyton dinked and dunked in the playoffs...

Fox ran the most predictable offense imaginable.e. thus is why there were so many 3 and outs.. BUT.. when the run game got going it chewed up the clock.. they dominated TOP.
 
Old 01-24-2013, 02:03 PM   #268
Flex Gunmetal
Icy Fresh
 
Flex Gunmetal's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: COLORADO
Posts: 3,078

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Francis Daytona
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGruder View Post
So running a couple trick option plays = revamping the O for Tebow? Again.. someone who takes what the media tells them as gospel when it's total BS.
Do you even watch football?



Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGruder View Post
That isn't what I said nimrod...

My point is it doesn't matter if you run or pass.. the effect is similar... regardless of whether the crappy number evaluation system reflects it....

Also, having a high completion percentage isn't a good thing if it kills your run game.. which is why your silly completion % stat is totally meaningless.

Peyton had stellar numbers by conventional standards.. yet DelHomme went to the superbowl and Peyton didn't...
Mark Rypien won a superbowl, Dan Marino didn't. Strong logic, no wonder you are such a beacon of intellectual discourse.
Flex Gunmetal is offline  
Old 01-24-2013, 02:04 PM   #269
Drunken.Broncoholic
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGruder View Post
He had tom run because the line couldn't protect him... same reason Peyton dinked and dunked in the playoffs...

Fox ran the most predictable offense imaginable.e. thus is why there were so many 3 and outs.. BUT.. when the run game got going it chewed up the clock.. they dominated TOP.
The line can't protect a QB holding onto the ball too long trying to decide which way to run.

The titties have gone sour in here. I'm out.
 
Old 01-24-2013, 02:15 PM   #270
2KBack
Rumblin' Bumblin'
 
2KBack's Avatar
 
Cake is delicious

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wash DC
Posts: 7,842
Default

2011 Denver Broncos TOP 29:43 22nd in the league

2012 Denver Broncos TOP 31:16 4th
2KBack is offline  
Old 01-24-2013, 02:19 PM   #271
MacGruder
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flex Gunmetal View Post
Do you even watch football?
Do you? Fox limited Tebow's offense when he took over he didn't change it...


Quote:
Mark Rypien won a superbowl, Dan Marino didn't. Strong logic, no wonder you are such a beacon of intellectual discourse.

No.. strong logic is saying someone is better when they played a comparable team worse, just because they have history of putting up meaningless stats their whole career...
 
Old 01-24-2013, 02:19 PM   #272
BroncoBeavis
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic View Post
Another lie. Tebow was a 3 and out waiting to happen. For 3 1/2 quarters the offense couldn't stay on the field. That hardly helps the defense. There were PLENTY of passing plays tebow was handed. Problem was he was too stupid to go through progressions and looked to run the moment he had the ball. Got scared and ran in circles. Bye bye passing play. Blown up by your hero.
Are you TGN? Just throwing that out there.
 
Old 01-24-2013, 02:21 PM   #273
TheReverend
Permanent Facepalm
 
TheReverend's Avatar
 
Not. Too. Shabby.

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 37,312

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Mike Shanahan
Default

Guys, I'd like to clear 15 pages by the time this thread hits 24 hours old, so pick up the pace a little, please. Okay?
TheReverend is offline  
Old 01-24-2013, 02:22 PM   #274
MacGruder
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2KBack View Post
2011 Denver Broncos TOP 29:43 22nd in the league

2012 Denver Broncos TOP 31:16 4th
Tebow had that time of TOP WITH all the 3 and outs using such a predictable and efficient style... WHILE generating the number one running offense in the NFL...

Peyton's TOP was generated by dinking and dunking

Peyton also had a superior offense which aided his TOP.. Tebow had a terrible D which helped his opposing teams TOP...
 
Old 01-24-2013, 02:23 PM   #275
MacGruder
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReverend View Post
Guys, I'd like to clear 15 pages by the time this thread hits 24 hours old, so pick up the pace a little, please. Okay?
Will you get a new merit badge from the Freemasons?
 
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:15 AM.


Denver Broncos