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Old 01-25-2013, 06:20 AM   #126
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Want-a-be Internet GM's are by far the most annoying.

There is a reason you are sitting on your toilet posting on a football message board.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:29 AM   #127
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First of all I'm not angry about winning or losing a debate.. just want you to justify the numbers you put out..

thanks for coming back with this..

Yes I had someone else point out it would be tag money and not contract money

I'm not all that sure that a drafted OLT can not be just as good as clady is at this time..

his run blocking has always been less than great and lately since his knee issue the speed rushers have given him trouble while not officially giving up but one sack there have been hurries or forcing Manning up into he pocket..


You can go back and check my records/post about always wanting to up grade the OL and DL..

IMO that has been a weak spot for decades..

no need to be hostile just because all I have ever asked is how are you going to pay for some of the dream you and others have had..
Why is resigning our own players INCLUDING Clady, and signing Collie to a cheap deal DREAMING? It's not dreaming at all. I just showed you how 2 players we were gonna essentially dump (Mays, DJ) can be replaced cap wise and roster wise by our best T and a draftee LB, which mark my words we will add one through the draft.

So how exactly is that not logical or DREAMING? Also say we draft a LT and don't resign Clady. What are we doing with all that extra cap room to improve the team?
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:30 AM   #128
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The Giants have 22 FA's and are 9 million dollars over the cap. I guess they should just pack it in and realize they are F'd for next year.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:36 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by colorado jones View Post
Want-a-be Internet GM's are by far the most annoying.

There is a reason you are sitting on your toilet posting on a football message board.
Because I have diarrhea?
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:43 AM   #130
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The new CBA requires each team to spend almost all of their cap. They no longer have the option of being cheap. Someone is getting that money.
I heard that, but I haven't been able to find out how much exactly. Got a link?
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:41 AM   #131
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1. the carry over deal was a one time thing

2. 13-3. when you're close, you spend to get there. it's not rocket science, and bowlen has done it before.
Yes he did and it cost him hundreds of millions with I'd guess close to a hundred mil in dead money over the years.

So while I'd love to see every dime spent it is Pat decision to hold back since this is the last year he decides how much he can do so.

Next year they go to the new rules of having to spend at least 89% ofthe cap ceiling. Which if my numbers add up means for 121 cap year he can hold back a Shade over 13 mil. Which was about the same percentage as he did last year.

Btw the hold over thing was more than one year it started after the uncapped year.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:47 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Rascal View Post
I heard that, but I haven't been able to find out how much exactly. Got a link?
http://www.cincyjungle.com/2013/1/23...-spend-in-2013

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At it's most generic and simplistic, teams are required to spend at least 89 percent of the salary cap starting in 2013. The projected NFL salary cap for 2013 is approximately $121 million with an approximate minimum of $107 million, aka the floor
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:54 AM   #133
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The new CBA requires each team to spend almost all of their cap. They no longer have the option of being cheap. Someone is getting that money.
That is next year.
And while it requires the teams to spend more the collective amount is 89% of the total cap value across the league. IIRC. So that would mean that while WAS DAL SfO NYG NYJ will max out some of the smaller market teams like DEN KC BUF may not even have to get to 89% of the cap value.

Now I could be wrong. But that was how it was explained by one of the talking head during the announcement of the new CBA.

The 11.5 we could carry over to this year would have been about right at 10% of last years cap value. If the cap value was 114 or so.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:07 AM   #134
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Want-a-be Internet GM's are by far the most annoying.

There is a reason you are sitting on your toilet posting on a football message board.
To me the most annoying posters are the "I want" every flicking player that hits UFA and even worse those that are RFA Or anytime some one hears a rumor that a revis type player might hold out.

They have to be the first moron to start a new thread to ask the question what does everyone think.

Since 90% of the kiddies on here have no conception of budgets or management of personnel they get the answer they want hell yes. Without any idea if we could afford them and if asked then they promptly start by talking about cutting any with a cap ale over 50 bucks. So they can play FF owner.

As for my posts I have stated a few time that I do it when taking a dump. It was meant to be a funny as most of those threads were about crap anyway.

But as usuall most of the humor was completely over your HEAD.

See, another funny " head".

I realize some do not care for my commentary because I just state the facts as I know them. And when proved wrong I admit it and thank them for setting me straight unlike some of the morons on here. That take things personally and will never let it go.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:11 AM   #135
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And when proved wrong I admit it and thank them for setting me straight
textbook example of practice makes perfect
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:12 PM   #136
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:06 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Bmore Manning View Post
Why is resigning our own players INCLUDING Clady, and signing Collie to a cheap deal DREAMING? It's not dreaming at all. I just showed you how 2 players we were gonna essentially dump (Mays, DJ) can be replaced cap wise and roster wise by our best T and a draftee LB, which mark my words we will add one through the draft.

So how exactly is that not logical or DREAMING? Also say we draft a LT and don't resign Clady. What are we doing with all that extra cap room to improve the team?
Again. If all we needed was a OLT that would be one thing. But we have several holes to fill and LOADs of depth to restore.

So spend 12 mil per year on one guy or spend that 12 mil On 3-4 guys which makes more sense to you.

But what you or I want makes no difference it is what John And John want.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:11 PM   #138
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The Giants have 22 FA's and are 9 million dollars over the cap. I guess they should just pack it in and realize they are F'd for next year.
They have been screwed for years just did not know it.

Yes they are going to have to make some major changes.

With all their fans clamoring for them to resign the hot shot RBs a few years ago, the managanement knew they would've sucking hind teat soon and allowed him to move on as they could not afford him long term.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:21 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by lonestar View Post
Again. If all we needed was a OLT that would be one thing. But we have several holes to fill and LOADs of depth to restore.

So spend 12 mil per year on one guy or spend that 12 mil On 3-4 guys which makes more sense to you.

But what you or I want makes no difference it is what John And John want.
Now your just proving my point, why add another "hole to fill" by letting a top 5 LT in the league walk?

We need an MLB, DT, OL, CB, S, and even saying that we can cover those positions with scheme. Signing PM to monster money then not protecting him with a proven vet in his blind side is a true waste of money.

I could almost see your point if we had a running QB like Kapernick or that scrub who washed out of the league in NY but we need to protect our old drop back passer.

Your looking at it from a money end which is something that a typical manager might do but a good manager would see his talent, weigh it against his needs and pay for it if it made his group stronger. A problem with American companies is that they look at the bottom line 1st and make decisions off of that rather than look at performance and how it will impact the future. OMG we can fire one dude and free up 160k and replace him with a kid out of college for 40k a year, there by passing up all that talent and experience to make a spread sheet look good.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:23 PM   #140
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That is next year.
And while it requires the teams to spend more the collective amount is 89% of the total cap value across the league. IIRC. So that would mean that while WAS DAL SfO NYG NYJ will max out some of the smaller market teams like DEN KC BUF may not even have to get to 89% of the cap value.

Now I could be wrong. But that was how it was explained by one of the talking head during the announcement of the new CBA.

The 11.5 we could carry over to this year would have been about right at 10% of last years cap value. If the cap value was 114 or so.
You're wrong. It is this year and while it is spread out, the league isn't going to allow some teams to go cheap.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:33 PM   #141
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You're wrong. It is this year and while it is spread out, the league isn't going to allow some teams to go cheap.
By next year I meant 2013. Sorry that did not come across correct.

But the 89% is a league wide number correct ..

Therefore as long as the league hits that number the CBA is satisfied.

We all know the smaller market teams can not afford to hit the top number. Therefore the reason for it being an average.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

And even IF they do Pat could still stay on the lower edge of it and spend right at the 114 level which if my calculations are correct would be about only about ten mil more this year than last.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:53 PM   #142
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So does anyone have a current guess (Eddie mac, DB, etc.) at how much cap room we have now with the future contracts (50 players) signed? I know you still have to figure in dead money from years past, but I believe SportTrac has those numbers.

If anyone has a good estimate or guess, let me know. It would be helpful when trying to calculate the money that would be available. I've read from various places that the number is ~ $18.5 where we stand now. Is that correct? Seems like it would more given DB's post on the 50 contracts equaling the number he posted, but I am assuming that didn't include bonuses, dead money, etc.

In my opinion, lonestar's huffing and puffing about the cap and us not having enough money is absurd. Basically, he just doesn't like Clady. Here is why we can fiscally do it:

Ryan Clady is the only big name free agent we have this year: It isn't like we are some team who has four good players with contracts expiring.

The free agents worth retaining are likely to come at an affordable price:

I see the Broncos re-signing David Bruton to keep playing special teams. He will be an affordable contract. Justin Bannan can be re-signed on the cheap home discount. He likes playing for Del Rio and I doubt would get more lucrative offers at anywhere else at this point in his career. Bring back Kevin Vickerson. He is an RFA. If another team wants him, they lose a pick. He won't be getting a huge contract, but like Bannan, can operate in this scheme and be effective.

Bring back Koppen unless you feel the need to draft someone to compete with J.D. Walton. Great interior prospects this year. Could be considered. Does Stokley have another year of fire? If so, he is coming cheap. Brian Leonhard isn't going to break the bank either. How many players outside of this is that? 5 or 6? Doubt that even costs us more than 15 million, probably even less.

Ball, Brooking, Gronkowski, Hunter, Warren, Willis can all go elsewhere. What is the status on Hester?

Players like Mitch Unrein and Tony Carter will probably be back on the team as ERFA. [Maybe Carter isn't] We are the only team that can offer them contracts. I'm betting they will come back at pretty cheap prices.

At least five rookies are going to make the team and be playing for a relatively small amount of change. Some of them are likely to replace positions on the team right now that are costing us much more money, i.e. -- linebacker. I don't see any way possible that the Broncos go in to 2013 with Williams and Mays both here accounting for over $11 million against the cap. There are other players like Caleb Hanie who could be trimmed and we could get savings there as well too.

Ryan Clady needs to be re-signed. We have some starters, but mostly role players and depth to replace. It won't be hard to retain them, and with a few quality draft selections, we will have upgrades over most all of them. Jesus.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:11 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by lonestar View Post
By next year I meant 2013. Sorry that did not come across correct.

But the 89% is a league wide number correct ..

Therefore as long as the league hits that number the CBA is satisfied.

We all know the smaller market teams can not afford to hit the top number. Therefore the reason for it being an average.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

And even IF they do Pat could still stay on the lower edge of it and spend right at the 114 level which if my calculations are correct would be about only about ten mil more this year than last.
He theoretically could, but there are provisions in there to prevent it. Among them are that the league has to pay the difference the the players union, which no one wants to do, and there are things they can do to the teams for not meeting the minimum.

Honestly, the league has to try and hit %100 and the league will self-enforce each team spending at least %89 of their cap each. And you are correct in that the new season doesn't start for a few months, but that is the cap number we're all talking about here.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:12 PM   #144
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Now your just proving my point, why add another "hole to fill" by letting a top 5 LT in the league walk?

We need an MLB, DT, OL, CB, S, and even saying that we can cover those positions with scheme. Signing PM to monster money then not protecting him with a proven vet in his blind side is a true waste of money.

I could almost see your point if we had a running QB like Kapernick or that scrub who washed out of the league in NY but we need to protect our old drop back passer.

Your looking at it from a money end which is something that a typical manager might do but a good manager would see his talent, weigh it against his needs and pay for it if it made his group stronger. A problem with American companies is that they look at the bottom line 1st and make decisions off of that rather than look at performance and how it will impact the future. OMG we can fire one dude and free up 160k and replace him with a kid out of college for 40k a year, there by passing up all that talent and experience to make a spread sheet look good.
Yes I am looking at it from a monetary angle, never said I was not in fact I have always said show me the money..


most poster on here are strictly looking at talent and while that is nice our super bolw team had to be blown up because we could not sustain the talent level because the players ALL wanted more money than we had..

not only did we have players retire but had several Sharpe, Atwater and ROmo being the most noticeable moved on for more money even though we had other biggie players retire mikey shot his wad getting the rings with ZERO concerns for next year..

even with those players retiring we still had NO cap room..

SO a good Gm should be looking at what happens next year also when he is putting together packages for this year..

SO even IF we are able to slide enough money for clady this year what happens next year.. and the year after.. you are talking about just handleing the Profits for this year .. a good GM VP should be looking long term.. something that John said he would be doing by building the team via the draft .. which he has and by signing short term rental UFA mostly one year guys.. But that is starting to bite him in the !@#$%^&* also..

note the following guys that leave the team in 2013 and then in 2014.. we will have to have money then to sign the good ones and most of what are leaving are good one IMO..


Code:
52. Greg Orton at Wide Receiver 	1 yr/TBD 	2013 	2014
51. Mario Butler at Cornerback 	1 yr/TBD 	2013 	2014
1. Justin Boren             1 yr/$405,000 	2013 	2014
2. Paul Cornick             1 yr/$405,000 	2013 	2014
3. Ben Garland             1 yr/$405,000 	2013 	2014
5. Quentin Saulsberry   1 yr/$405,000 	2013 	2014
10. Trindon Holliday      2 yr/$870,000 	2013 	2014
12. Sealver Siliga          2 yr/$870,000 	2013 	2014
13. Duke Ihenacho        1 yr/$480,000 	2013 	2014
17. Jeremiah Johnson    1 yr/$480,000 	2013 	2014
18. Mario Fannin        3 yr/$1,405,000 	2013 	2014
23. Chris Harris         3 yr/$1,398,000 	2013 	2014
26. C.J Davis             2 yr/$1,020,000 	2013 	2014
27. Eric Davis  think you meant decker..
      Eric Decker          4 yr/$2,522,150 	2013 	2014
28. Zane Beadles       4 yr/$4,171,000 	2013 	2014
29. JD Walton            4 yr/$2,588,500 	2013 	2014
30. Jacob Hester        2 yr/$1,415,000 	2013 	2014
31. Manuel Ramirez    2 yr/$1,415,000 	2013 	2014
34. Andre Caldwell      2 yr/$1,800,000 	2013 	2014
35. Robert Ayers      5 yr/$15,500,000 	2013 	2014
36. Caleb Hanie         2 yr/$2,250,000 	2013 	2014
37. Knowshon Moreno   5 yr/$16,700,000 	2013 	2015
38. Wesley Woodyard    2 yr/$3,500,000 	2013 	2014
39. Mike Adams         2 yr/$4,000,000 	2013 	2014


40 Von Miller           4 yr/$21,000,380 	2014 	2015
41. Willis McGahee     4 yr/$9,500,000 	2014 	2015
42. Jacob Tamme       3 yr/$8,000,000 	2014 	2015
32. Orlando Franklin     4 yr/$4,350,000 	2014 	2015
33. Demaryius Thomas   5 yr/$12,155,000 	2014 	2015
44. Joel Dreessen       3 yr/$8,500,000 	2014 	2015
45. Joe Mays           3 yr/$12,000,000 	2014 	2015
24. Nate Irving          4 yr/$2,735,000 	2014 	2015
25. Rahim Moore       4 yr/$4,448,000 	2014 	2015
20. Julius Thomas      4 yr/$2,420,000 	2014 	2015
21. Virgil Green         4 yr/$2,160,000 	2014 	2015
22. Quinton Carter     4 yr/$2,490,000 	2014 	2015
48. Champ Bailey     4 yr/$43,000,000 	2014 	2015
16. Steven Johnson    3 yr/$1,452,000 	2014 	2015
4. Gerell Robinson        2 yr/$900,000 	2014 	2015
6. Aaron Brewer         3 yr/$1,444,000 	2014 	2015

11. Philip Blake          4 yr/$2,554,000 	2015 	2016
46. Chris Kuper        6 yr/$28,012,000 	2015 	2016
14. Danny Trevathan   4 yr/$2,204,072 	2015 	2016
15. Malik Jackson        4 yr/$2,313,600 	2015 	2016
7. Omar Bolden         4 yr/$2,574,428 	2015 	2016
8. Brock Osweiler       4 yr/$3,100,000 	2015 	2016
9. Ronnie Hillman       4 yr/$3,000,000 	2015 	2016
43. Matt Prater        4 yr/$13,000,000 	2015 	2016
19. Derek Wolfe         4 yr/$6,247,675 	2015 	2016



47. DJ Williams        6 yr/$32,000,000 	2013 	2014
23 players becoming unrestricted free agents after this coming season..

16 becoming UFA in 2014..

SO IMO they will be looking at those numbers also when hthey are deciding about Clady or any other player they want to sign..

YES the cap does go up each year but 23 players at teh lowest end that need to be replaced at the end of this next season is a bunch and will cost us some coin to sign at least this group..
Code:
      Eric Decker          4 yr/$2,522,150 	2013 	2014
28. Zane Beadles       4 yr/$4,171,000 	2013 	2014
29. JD Walton            4 yr/$2,588,500 	2013 	2014
30. Jacob Hester        2 yr/$1,415,000 	2013 	2014
31. Manuel Ramirez    2 yr/$1,415,000 	2013 	2014
35. Robert Ayers      5 yr/$15,500,000 	2013 	2014
37. Knowshon Moreno   5 yr/$16,700,000 	2013 	2015
38. Wesley Woodyard    2 yr/$3,500,000 	2013 	2014
and IF you do not resign them they are going to be hard to replace.. and cost money.. then of course we have the following year..

Code:
40 Von Miller           4 yr/$21,000,380 	2014 	2015
41. Willis McGahee     4 yr/$9,500,000 	2014 	2015
42. Jacob Tamme       3 yr/$8,000,000 	2014 	2015
32. Orlando Franklin     4 yr/$4,350,000 	2014 	2015
33. Demaryius Thomas   5 yr/$12,155,000 	2014 	2015
now maybe tamme and Willis are not biggies but DT and Von as well as franklin will be..

so yes I look at more than this minute when I'm making my decisions and just because there is money left in the bank, that does not mean you have to spend it right now..

Does what I have presented, make it harder to Clady to a whopper contract IMO YES..


The broncos have a Cap specialist that is doing much the same thing but in far deeper detail.. then generalities that I have shown..

I will say it again..

So far John has given me no reason than to trust what he is doing (even if he fubared Mayes)

I see no indications that he is going mikey on us.. every thing has been planned out.. Even telling DJ if he wanted to come back this year to us he would have to redo his existing contract for 2012.

Almost all of his UFA have been short term and have for the most part worked out well.. which means he is still on board for building via the draft which is the most economical way to field a team..
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:25 PM   #145
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He theoretically could, but there are provisions in there to prevent it. Among them are that the league has to pay the difference the the players union, which no one wants to do, and there are things they can do to the teams for not meeting the minimum.

Honestly, the league has to try and hit %100 and the league will self-enforce each team spending at least %89 of their cap each. And you are correct in that the new season doesn't start for a few months, but that is the cap number we're all talking about here.
OK a reasonable response..

But have questions and frankly I do not see how they could force a team to max out..

since at least in the past all player that hit IR had to fall under the cap, how can you go into the season at max cap, have a player hit IR and then be able to replace them.. If they were at max cap starting the season how are they going to handle it..

If they do not count the money on IR players then what is to stop teams from placing player there to lower the cap values?

or better yet stash them away for next year?

every thing I read and heard told me that the 89% was the minimum they any team had to spend and it was placed there for the smaller market owners to ensure they could remain profitable..

that the league ONLY had to hit the 89% total league wide or penalties then would be in play..

there is no way for every team to get to 100% without going over and still have the IR provision..

then add in the presumed incentive bonus money that has to be added into the cap, for "reaching the pro bowl", getting 15 sacks, having a QBR of 100.. etc.. if that money is counted in the cap money then I see the owners padding that area with unreachable goals to save paying them real money..

What say you?
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:29 PM   #146
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So does anyone have a current guess (Eddie mac, DB, etc.) at how much cap room we have now with the future contracts (50 players) signed? I know you still have to figure in dead money from years past, but I believe SportTrac has those numbers.

If anyone has a good estimate or guess, let me know. It would be helpful when trying to calculate the money that would be available. I've read from various places that the number is ~ $18.5 where we stand now. Is that correct? Seems like it would more given DB's post on the 50 contracts equaling the number he posted, but I am assuming that didn't include bonuses, dead money, etc.

In my opinion, lonestar's huffing and puffing about the cap and us not having enough money is absurd. Basically, he just doesn't like Clady. Here is why we can fiscally do it:

Ryan Clady is the only big name free agent we have this year: It isn't like we are some team who has four good players with contracts expiring.

The free agents worth retaining are likely to come at an affordable price:

I see the Broncos re-signing David Bruton to keep playing special teams. He will be an affordable contract. Justin Bannan can be re-signed on the cheap home discount. He likes playing for Del Rio and I doubt would get more lucrative offers at anywhere else at this point in his career. Bring back Kevin Vickerson. He is an RFA. If another team wants him, they lose a pick. He won't be getting a huge contract, but like Bannan, can operate in this scheme and be effective.

Bring back Koppen unless you feel the need to draft someone to compete with J.D. Walton. Great interior prospects this year. Could be considered. Does Stokley have another year of fire? If so, he is coming cheap. Brian Leonhard isn't going to break the bank either. How many players outside of this is that? 5 or 6? Doubt that even costs us more than 15 million, probably even less.

Ball, Brooking, Gronkowski, Hunter, Warren, Willis can all go elsewhere. What is the status on Hester?

Players like Mitch Unrein and Tony Carter will probably be back on the team as ERFA. [Maybe Carter isn't] We are the only team that can offer them contracts. I'm betting they will come back at pretty cheap prices.

At least five rookies are going to make the team and be playing for a relatively small amount of change. Some of them are likely to replace positions on the team right now that are costing us much more money, i.e. -- linebacker. I don't see any way possible that the Broncos go in to 2013 with Williams and Mays both here accounting for over $11 million against the cap. There are other players like Caleb Hanie who could be trimmed and we could get savings there as well too.

Ryan Clady needs to be re-signed. We have some starters, but mostly role players and depth to replace. It won't be hard to retain them, and with a few quality draft selections, we will have upgrades over most all of them. Jesus.
That's TBD based on the 53 man roster.. That's what's counted against the cap. Who gets cut, their dead money, players bonus money, all those variables are circumstantial to how you tweak it.

Did DB4L's 50 contracts included the total cap hit, or just Salary?
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:44 PM   #147
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Where is it coming from?
Let's start with the basics.

First, Clady's cap hit was nearly $6 million in 2012. So if the Broncos pay him $12 million (Joe Thomas money) they only take an extra cap hit of $6 million. The cap hits don't compound.

That doesn't even include the $11.97 million in cap hits coming off the books for free agents to be, i.e., Lance Ball ($540,000), Tracy Porter ($4,000,000), Bannon ($1,000,000), Brookings ($1,000,000), Chris Clark ($540,000), Chris Gronkowski ($540,000), Jim Leonhard ($890,000), Jason Hunter ($700,000), Ty Warren ($1,500,000) and Matt Willis ($1,260,000), that likely won't be resigned.

That leaves roughly $27.97 million of cap room flexibility. Take into consideration that Denver's rookie cap hits last year was something like $4 million, so that still leaves the Broncos with $23.97 million in cap space to work with even after signing Clady.

Granted, there will be some dead cap space accrued from something, and that will cut down on that, but there's also a lot of dead cap space that comes off the books too.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:23 PM   #148
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Let's start with the basics.

First, Clady's cap hit was nearly $6 million in 2012. So if the Broncos pay him $12 million (Joe Thomas money) they only take an extra cap hit of $6 million. The cap hits don't compound.

That doesn't even include the $11.97 million in cap hits coming off the books for free agents to be, i.e., Lance Ball ($540,000), Tracy Porter ($4,000,000), Bannon ($1,000,000), Brookings ($1,000,000), Chris Clark ($540,000), Chris Gronkowski ($540,000), Jim Leonhard ($890,000), Jason Hunter ($700,000), Ty Warren ($1,500,000) and Matt Willis ($1,260,000), that likely won't be resigned.

That leaves roughly $27.97 million of cap room flexibility. Take into consideration that Denver's rookie cap hits last year was something like $4 million, so that still leaves the Broncos with $23.97 million in cap space to work with even after signing Clady.

Granted, there will be some dead cap space accrued from something, and that will cut down on that, but there's also a lot of dead cap space that comes off the books too.
YET the cap hit each year would be 12 million addition by subtraction just does not work.. 12 mil is 12 mill is 12 mil..

does any one really believe that he is worth 12 million.. I'm sure on here all the kiddies will swoon over it.. but I doubt that John will when the long term realities hit him..

yet he is NOT the same guy we had as a rookie since his knew issue he has never been the same last year 2011 he led the league in holding penalties this year the speed rushers have been all over him and while he did only allow one sack this year, he made Manning visibly nervous forcing him to step up into the pocket or roll out away FROM clady on numerous occasions.. ..

Does that mean he will be 100 % of what he was a rookie? I'll let John and John worry about that..

Again if they find the money OK by me as they are a lot closer to the situation than you or I am..

the facts were when I originally posted numbers were :
  • we had 18.5 mil in free space going into the season.. 11 and change of which was roll over money.. those were numbers gathered and published by a national concern.. Whether they are spot on or not I do not know for sure.. but none the less 18.5 million..
  • we had 35 players under contract at that time according to sporttrac all of which I listed, since then we have signed apx 17 players to future contracts.. totaling as of yesterday (24Jan) 52 players . all listed above in this thread..

now numerous others have went thru the numbers and posted salaries of those they found, I have not checked their accuracy and everyone that has done so has come up with different numbers who is spot on or not I have no idea..


while I appreciate your taking last years numbers and subtracting out who you believe will be gone I still stand on 18.5 million IF Pat allows us to spend it all to fill out some 25 roster spots when the season starts and that includes the number of IR players that have to fit under the cap.. 35 on the list adding 18 for the 53 man roster plus an average of 7 on IR or 60 players.. 25 players for 18.5 mil 740 K per person..

BTW I note you did not list Williams on the cut list, that IMO is a for sure cut..


but thanks again for your thoughts,, even IF I do not see it the way you do....

BTW the real dead money according to Sportrac i listed above at about 1 million for the coming year NOT counting who they may cut in the future
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:33 PM   #149
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So does anyone have a current guess (Eddie mac, DB, etc.) at how much cap room we have now with the future contracts (50 players) signed? I know you still have to figure in dead money from years past, but I believe SportTrac has those numbers.

If anyone has a good estimate or guess, let me know. It would be helpful when trying to calculate the money that would be available. I've read from various places that the number is ~ $18.5 where we stand now. Is that correct? Seems like it would more given DB's post on the 50 contracts equaling the number he posted, but I am assuming that didn't include bonuses, dead money, etc.

In my opinion, lonestar's huffing and puffing about the cap and us not having enough money is absurd. Basically, he just doesn't like Clady. Here is why we can fiscally do it:

Ryan Clady is the only big name free agent we have this year: It isn't like we are some team who has four good players with contracts expiring.

The free agents worth retaining are likely to come at an affordable price:

I see the Broncos re-signing David Bruton to keep playing special teams. He will be an affordable contract. Justin Bannan can be re-signed on the cheap home discount. He likes playing for Del Rio and I doubt would get more lucrative offers at anywhere else at this point in his career. Bring back Kevin Vickerson. He is an RFA. If another team wants him, they lose a pick. He won't be getting a huge contract, but like Bannan, can operate in this scheme and be effective.

Bring back Koppen unless you feel the need to draft someone to compete with J.D. Walton. Great interior prospects this year. Could be considered. Does Stokley have another year of fire? If so, he is coming cheap. Brian Leonhard isn't going to break the bank either. How many players outside of this is that? 5 or 6? Doubt that even costs us more than 15 million, probably even less.

Ball, Brooking, Gronkowski, Hunter, Warren, Willis can all go elsewhere. What is the status on Hester?

Players like Mitch Unrein and Tony Carter will probably be back on the team as ERFA. [Maybe Carter isn't] We are the only team that can offer them contracts. I'm betting they will come back at pretty cheap prices.

At least five rookies are going to make the team and be playing for a relatively small amount of change. Some of them are likely to replace positions on the team right now that are costing us much more money, i.e. -- linebacker. I don't see any way possible that the Broncos go in to 2013 with Williams and Mays both here accounting for over $11 million against the cap. There are other players like Caleb Hanie who could be trimmed and we could get savings there as well too.

Ryan Clady needs to be re-signed. We have some starters, but mostly role players and depth to replace. It won't be hard to retain them, and with a few quality draft selections, we will have upgrades over most all of them. Jesus.
I added bonus on that original post. Denver has only 1 million dollars in dead money. Right now with bonus we are roughly at 114,514,370.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:43 PM   #150
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I added bonus on that original post. Denver has only 1 million dollars in dead money. Right now with bonus we are roughly at 114,514,370.
So recap this as we have been all I've over the place with numbers.

For the 50-52 players on the roster right now we have committed including dead money 115 mil?

Is that what you are saying?
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