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Old 01-15-2013, 07:09 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Bmore Manning View Post
We have already done these in the draft forum..

Funny how you came at me in that very thread about cap room and here you are talking about getting players. And one in particular Terrance Knighton who myself and DB4L have been beating that drum. It wasn't cool when I wanted him and talked about how we would add tier two free agents, but it's great when you do it!
Corey Williams and Ma'ake Kemoeatu wouldn't be bad either. Williams coming off a injury might be cheaper and Ma'ake has history with Fox.
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Old 01-15-2013, 07:10 PM   #27
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Excellent work and thread.
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Old 01-15-2013, 07:11 PM   #28
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Don't think Amerson has the ability to play press-man successfully in the pros. That isn't what got him his bread and butter in college football, it is the off-man trails with safety help behind him and zone coverages where he succeeds the most. I look at Rhodes and Amerson and the big difference between the two of them is ability to play press. Which is why Rhodes is a superior prospect. Amerson probably could switch to FSU in the NFL and be very successful too.
This is one we are going to disagree on. The vast majority of his work was man to man.. He has all the attributes to be a press man corner.. His ball skills are great too, body control and fluidity to turn and run.

That's a prefect press man corner..
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:03 PM   #29
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This is one we are going to disagree on. The vast majority of his work was man to man.. He has all the attributes to be a press man corner.. His ball skills are great too, body control and fluidity to turn and run.

That's a prefect press man corner..
Off-man coverage or zone. You would rarely find any instance with Amerson playing press-man. If he lines up and gets beat on the press, he doesn't have the the speed to recover. Really good balls kills though. (And I meant free safety earlier) Should be a Top 64 player.

Last edited by Requiem; 01-15-2013 at 08:06 PM..
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:11 PM   #30
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I agree with what's been posted. What about a Trindon type skill player on offense.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:13 PM   #31
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I'd put RB ahead of G simply because the line has been good this year. There aren't that many teams with a Ngata type on the DL that can cause that much disruption. But regardless of line play our backs for the several seasons are incapable of picking up short yardage.

I'd also add speed at the WR spot as a need. Speed is truly what killed us. Baltimore having it on offense and us not having that homerun threat
The OL is good in pass protect. They lack the push in the run game to control short yardage. I still think we need help up the middle or another Tackle that will allow Franklin to move inside.

I think LB is still a key need in pass coverage on TE and filling the MLB thumping position. DJ is gone. Brookings was a decent stop gap. We all see the limitations of Mays.

We do need a RB. I am not sure what we have in Hillman just yet. WM has been good for us but he may be at the end. KM showed definite improvement but I am not sure he is a No. 1 back. I would like to see someone like a young Willis who can deliver a blow, break tackles.

We do need a DT
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:18 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Here's my opening dance card for the draft:

28. Sharrif Floyd, DT, Florida
58. Travis Frederick, OG/C, Wisconsin
90. Stepfan Taylor, RB, Stanford

Then, go get Urlacher.
Yeah a slow aged vet to replace a slow.aged vet. Sounds great.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:21 PM   #33
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I agree with what's been posted. What about a Trindon type skill player on offense.
I would love to see the front office take a real look at seeing what it would take to get Harvin in Denver.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:23 PM   #34
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Piss ton of RB/WR in rounds 2-4 that you could just squirt for. Trade some losers for picks lets get PLan A+++ going!!
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:41 PM   #35
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Piss ton of RB/WR in rounds 2-4 that you could just squirt for. Trade some losers for picks lets get PLan A+++ going!!
Who do we have who is under contract, expendable and worth anything but late round or conditional picks?
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:52 PM   #36
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I agree with Drek's original post. Great effort and analysis put into that. I would add a speed slot guy as several have mentioned so far.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:00 PM   #37
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I agree with what's been posted. What about a Trindon type skill player on offense.
Tavon Austin
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:03 PM   #38
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For the nth time, Champ isn't moving to safety. He had one bad game, and so did many others on the team. Now he shut down Torrey smith in the regular season by allowing only 14 yards.

Compounding Champs bad play was the fact that this defense got zero pressure on Flacco. You are asking alot of your secondary to shut down recievers when Flacco isn't under pressure throughout the game. This defense had 52 sacks for the year with doom and Von managing to get half a sack apiece in a playoff game. Not only did the front seven fail to generate pressure, it also failed to stop the run. Front seven is equally as responsible for this cluster****.

Bottom line is, nobody really showed up for this game. I don't see Champ moving to Safety but possibly a scheme change where he isn't on an island anymore. You move Champ to safety and you have another hole to fill, plus you have the highest paid safety in the league. Not good asset management from a talent and financial standpoint.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:12 PM   #39
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What about Chris Rainey? Speed in the offense immediately. Hit him in screens and dumpoffs and let him run.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:21 PM   #40
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Tavon Austin
I'd love him in Denver
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:41 PM   #41
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So here's the road map to fixing this team's problems, as I see them.

1. Running Back.
I see a RB taylor made for this offense in the draft, his name is Stepfan Taylor from Stanford, .

4. Middle Linebacker.
To me this is where we go with our first round pick. Manti Te'o, Kevin Minter, and Alec Ogeltree are all first round worthy
Derek.. Very well written and thought out.

I love the idea of drafting Stepfan Taylor if he is there in the 2nd round. Eddie Lacy from Alabama might be available at #28, questions about his style of running. But the Broncos might have to go against the grain and draft a runningback in the 1st round.

Manti Te'o is the one player I would stay away from, he is a NCAA player.. Not so much a NFL player. I watched too many Notre Dame Games.. And the quality of opponents was not that great. His showing against Alabama raises some red flags.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:46 PM   #42
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Champ played at an elite level all season. One game hardly means we need to move him to safety. What a massive overreaction.

The disturbing part was JDR's inability to recognize what was happening. What New England this weekend. They'll play nothing but cover-2 out of their base or nickel package pretty much the whole damn game. You stop those big over the top throws and you stop Baltimore. It's that simple.

tldr; Champ should have had safety help and it was a stunning coaching oversight that he didn't.


That said I definitely agree about our needs on the interior DL. Wolfe was ok, but far from disruptive. He disappeared for big stretches of games.

We need big help up the middle. It starts at middle linebacker and then safety and defensive tackle. Find talented players at any of those spots. If we can shore up the middle this will be a really really good defense.
Most of your post I agree with.

Wolfe pretty much played almost every down all season on the DL at some position.

I'm sure someone can find the number of snaps he took, which was a damne sight more probably times 2 over last year in college. In all he was in 17 games in regular and post season, not to mention four preseason games. A bunch more than his 10 game college season. Most rookies hit the famed rookie wall in about game 8-10.

If had not disappeared in some games he would have had to be superman.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:14 PM   #43
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Calling Champ a "liability" is a ****ing joke. Yeah, I suppose he'd be a liability if you had three Darrelle Revis clones in front of him making a combined 150 million dollars. We don't. No one does. He was second team all-pro at 34. Do you have a magic potion that produces all pro players at every position? That can just replace age with similarly skilled youth at a whim? No? We lost a playoff game, the ****ing world didn't end. Everyone here called us the best, most balanced team in the NFL less than a week ago. Today, it's time to blow it all up. Get over yourselves.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:25 PM   #44
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Derek.. Very well written and thought out.

I love the idea of drafting Stepfan Taylor if he is there in the 2nd round. Eddie Lacy from Alabama might be available at #28, questions about his style of running. But the Broncos might have to go against the grain and draft a runningback in the 1st round.

Manti Te'o is the one player I would stay away from, he is a NCAA player.. Not so much a NFL player. I watched too many Notre Dame Games.. And the quality of opponents was not that great. His showing against Alabama raises some red flags.
With all his hype I was expecting a Golden God at MLB in the games I saw sadly I was very disappointed. While he may some day be a star, not sure we can wait that long.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:31 PM   #45
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Calling Champ a "liability" is a ****ing joke. Yeah, I suppose he'd be a liability if you had three Darrelle Revis clones in front of him making a combined 150 million dollars. We don't. No one does. He was second team all-pro at 34. Do you have a magic potion that produces all pro players at every position? That can just replace age with similarly skilled youth at a whim? No? We lost a playoff game, the ****ing world didn't end. Everyone here called us the best, most balanced team in the NFL less than a week ago. Today, it's time to blow it all up. Get over yourselves.
well said

We can improve in almost all spots. CB is not an area we have the biggest concerns.

Way back after Manning took our team apart in a playoff game, mikey decided to fix it by getting a great CB, poortis for Champ. Problem solved.

But then next year IIRC he ignored Champ and toasted the other corner.
When that was upgraded he ate our Nickle back alive..

What mikey failed to get over all his years was pressure the QB with only your DL and then everyone playing behind them are instantly upgraded.

JDR knows that and I suspect so do The JOHNs.

I look for more DT those to be hgh on their wish list.
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:06 PM   #46
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Some good thoughts Drek and excellent effort.


RE: DTs

Over the last few years, we've seemed to have put a soft cap at DT in the salary range of 2.5 million. A lot of the big name DT Free Agents we chased commented that we only offered them a contract in that range, while most of them went on to sign for 5 million per year.

A large reason for that is our heavy rotation at DT. We rotate three guys pretty evenly. Bannan (592 Snaps), Vickerson (537), Unrein (414). For comparison, Wolfe and Dumervil played over a 1000 snaps each. So, we're only playing our DTs about 50% of the time.

For this reason, I don't see us spending high draft resources on the position (1st or 2nd round pick) and I can't imagine we will have any more luck this season signing DTs than we've had in the past. Even a guy like Knighton will command more than 2.5 million. And I think Vickerson might even price himself out of our range.

I expect we'll re-sign Bannan, keep Unrein, and just re-sign and promote Siliga. Those will be our 3 DTs on game day. (Wolfe and Jackson not withstanding). And I think we'll be solid with that rotation. I do expect us to draft a DT in the mid-late rounds (AJ Francis?) that we can keep as a gameday inactive while we develop him similar to what we did with Siliga this year.



RE: RB

I don't see why we don't just keep Moreno. He and Hillman were very effective together this year. Moreno is pretty much identical to Joseph Addai. If anything, let McGahee go, and stick with the young guys. Don't see the need to burn a high draft pick here.


RE: O-Line

I think we're okay here, we just need depth. I remember what a healthy Kuper looks like, and Beadles is a quality OG. Our OTs are fine. Walton was playing excellent before he was injured.


RE: CB

Bailey is staying at CB. Harris is a stud. Carter was solid for a nickel. Bolden is developing. We have room for depth.


RE: Safety

Agree that Moore is a quality FS despite his gaffe. And I think Adams was solid at SS. We do need a young Safety developing at SS as Carter can't be relied upon, while Leonhard and Bruton are FAs that probably won't be back. I'd expect the SS to start in the 2014 season. I'm thinking an early round draft pick.



I'd list our biggest needs as:

1) MLB
2) SS
3) WR
4) DT
5) OL Depth
6) CB Depth
7) WR Depth
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:09 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
Off-man coverage or zone. You would rarely find any instance with Amerson playing press-man. If he lines up and gets beat on the press, he doesn't have the the speed to recover. Really good balls kills though. (And I meant free safety earlier) Should be a Top 64 player.
Amerson put in one of the worst CB performances in recent history in our game against them this year. Dude was destroyed by Philip Dorsett and Rashawn Scott all day.......oh and he pulled a Rahim the Dream at the end of the game for the winning TD on a 60 yard TD.
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:02 AM   #48
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Notable available players:

Henry Melton
Greg Jennings
Wes Welker
Mike Wallace
Dwight Freeney
Desmond Bryant
Cliff Avril
Randy Starks
Brian Urlacher
Brent Grimes
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
Derek Cox
Aqib Talib
Ed Reed
Jairus Byrd
Louis Delmas

Most i'd say are legitimately available. I'd have Reed as retiring (if Baltimore manage to do it all this year i guarantee it), Urlacher, Freeney, Talib, DRC, Cox and Bryant to stay put but the rest are fair game.

Anyways, positional reviews:

QB: Manning

RB: I'd stick with Knowshon. Definitely proving his worth. Mcgahee as rotation but there could be a possibility we let him go and replace him with Steven Jackson or just stick with Hillman/Ball. All are solid, viable options.

OL: Re-sign Clady at all costs and keep them healthy, esp. Kuper with his injury issues lately. Let us see what Walton can do and learn from Koppen

WR: Could be upgraded. Stokely is no guarantee to stay on at his age and we could be down an excellent slot receiver and go to guy on key downs. Welker in the slot would be ****ing amazing. On another hand, Jennings signed as a #2 bumping Decker to slot would be an equally excellent move. Both are by far the best options given familiarity with elite QBs, attention to detail and excellent route running.

DL: Lot of options here. Freeney if he was considered would be a decent rotational addition (imagine Doom and Freeney rushing off the line along with Miller) and is friendly with Peyton. Cliff Avril would provide an even better option in the same regard. DT throws up some excellent names. Henry Melton would be a godsend and it's uncertain what direction Bears management go with this team. Other excellent options such as Randy Starks and Desmond Bryant abound

LB: Urlacher if he were to hit the market would have to be seriously considered. Age aside, he's exactly what we want, definition of elite at the position. Other than that, not much. We're set at two of three LB positions and Brooking is only a concern due to age/fading skills more than anything. Manti's stock has fallen since the National Championship and it is unclear how his stock will change when the combine comes around. If he falls a few spots Elway would be well advised to pull the trigger and orchestrate something, it would fill a hole immediately and have us set on D for years.

Secondary: Champ will remain corner but should not be targeting speed receivers - he's not 29 anymore. Another CB should be attained unless we trust Harris to cover #1 receivers. Considering the jump he made this year, don't rule it out. Grimes, DRC and Cox are interesting options and should be pursued unless we intend to give Porter another bite of the cherry. Moore will likely be given a chance to redeem himself but it depends on how the team responds to him, they are reportedly really pissed at him. Safety upgrades are no harm, Leonhard is old. Byrd, Delmas and Goldson are elite level replacements. Reed is not likely to be available

Coaching: Fox has his flaws certainly and has not proved he can prepare a team off a playoff bye. This was the sloppiest and most unprepared game by the team all year. However, McCoy is gone and could be replaced by the likes of Whizenhunt which would be an interesting move. Del Rio is gladly very likely to stay put and defensive stability can only be welcomed. Jury is still out on Fox and his "next Marty" reputation he's keen on building but the fact of the matter is he's going nowhere.

In summary, i think this team would be well advised to take a long look at WR - Welker and Jennings in particular, at DL and in the secondary where numerous options abound. MLB is a need but unless Urlacher hits the market which is dubious at best, Elway needs to be taking a long look at pulling together a move to nab Manti as it would go a long way towards completing this team and this is far from the strongest draft class.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:57 AM   #49
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Melton2013!

Then either Cox or DRC, stud ILB in draft, IOL depth and BPA
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:15 AM   #50
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I'd love Melton but don't know if he'd be allowed to leave. Whether they can get him or not, I'd like to see them take a shot at Dorsey and Smith for the DL.
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