How to get seperation and "beat" Champ Bailey

[socalorado]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Whoa whoa whoa, I wasn't saying move him to safety. I'm saying we need to play two deep safeties on the back end to give him and the rest of our underneath coverage more help over the top.

DEN apparently doesnt play deep safeties.
EVER.

I think its time to look at the charles Woodson position for Champ.
It plays to his strengths and his age.
Woodson plays the slot CB and covers TEs as well at the LOS.
He also will move back depending on his assesment of the QB at the LOS and move into a FS position to help or rove.
This allows Woodson to do what he does best, cover bigger,slower possesion recievers and TE's, and more importantly, jump routes.
But as a bonus being at the LOS so much, Woodson can also blitz from that position because like Bailey, hes a physical player that can attack and get to the QB, or also play in run coverage.

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by socalorado

Tony, you do know that the BALT game earlier in the year was without many of there best players right?

I'm well aware of this, and your point is fair. But why did the Broncos allow one O-lineman to make that big of a difference. Isn't Yanda the only guy who was missing in the first game? Also, as I showed in a post above, Champ had a very good year overall. And any CB is going to have struggles when left on an island and the opposing QB isn't getting pressured.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by Taco John

Bottom line for me - there were a lot of non-calls in this game, and that's simply because these refs were going to "let the players play." That means the most aggressive team was going to win. And they did.

Your premise is only valid under the assumption that the refs "let the players play" on both sides. Which they didn't. See the BS 3rd down PI call on Carter on the Ravens first drive (eventually leading to Smith's first TD), the BS PI on Bailey late in the game, etc.

[socalorado]

Originally Posted by TonyR

I'm well aware of this, and your point is fair. But why did the Broncos allow one O-lineman to make that big of a difference. Isn't Yanda the only guy who was missing in the first game? Also, as I showed in a post above, Champ had a very good year overall. And any CB is going to have struggles when left on an island and the opposing QB isn't getting pressured.

No, thats the whole reason that there is such thing as a
"SHUT DOWN CORNER" He doesnt need any help from anyone at any time.
Champ used to be one of those guys. Darrel Revis, injury free, is 1 of those guys.
And BTW, almost everyone on this team had a good year. They won 13 games. I am sure theres plenty of awards and articles to go around, but the bottom line is, Champ is no longer a premier shut down corner when asked to go head to head regardless of a pass rush anymore.

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang

You can continue to look for some over arching narrative to why we lost, but it's a number of random things, a huge fluke, and bad luck

I said on the podcast that the only way we lose is if there was a perfect storm of failure at multiple levels coupled with critical injuries. That is exactly what happened. It is also why the Patriots will rape the Ravens.

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by socalorado

No, thats the whole reason that there is such thing as a
"SHUT DOWN CORNER" He doesnt need any help from anyone at any time.
Champ used to be one of those guys. Darrel Revis, injury free, is 1 of those guys.
And BTW, almost everyone on this team had a good year. They won 13 games. I am sure theres plenty of awards and articles to go around, but the bottom line is, Champ is no longer a premier shut down corner when asked to go head to head regardless of a pass rush anymore.

I hear ya. But, mostly for the sake of argument/discussion, the Giants won two Super Bowls in recent years without a "shutdown corner", which they got away with primarily because their front 7 applied enough pressure. Shutdown CB's are a luxury and don't grow on trees. Do the Ravens have one? How about the Pats (Talib?)? If the point is that Champs needs help against elite receivers then I agree. If it's that he's washed up and needs to be replaced I do not.

[DENVERDUI55]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

That's not a big time push-off, bud. Things like that happen on almost every play. Champ's one of my favorite Broncos all-time, but it is what it is... and it is a **** performance.

Rev hit the nail on the head. Bailey does this every once in awhile. I think this is is second worst game ever covering but the worst game when you take in the importance of the game. Jerry Porter in the snow was the worst for me.

[WolfpackGuy]

Originally Posted by DENVERDUI55

Rev hit the nail on the head. Bailey does this every once in awhile. I think this is is second worst game ever covering but the worst game when you take in the importance of the game. Jerry Porter in the snow was the worst for me.

I dunno.

Chad Johnson earlier in 2004 was a pretty ugly performance.

[socalorado]

Originally Posted by TonyR

I hear ya. But, mostly for the sake of argument/discussion, the Giants won two Super Bowls in recent years without a "shutdown corner", which they got away with primarily because their front 7 applied enough pressure. Shutdown CB's are a luxury and don't grow on trees. Do the Ravens have one? How about the Pats (Talib?)? If the point is that Champs needs help against elite receivers then I agree. If it's that he's washed up and needs to be replaced I do not.

No, dude. Champ is not washed up. Cmon, man.
Hes clearly lost a step. Age.
However, DEN does need to take into consideration
that shut down CBs dont exactly grow on trees and
if they can get one at this point, they should be
considering it. Champ will need to eventually be replaced.
And i agree that if a team wants to draft DE's and Dts and
just go with that philosophy, then by all means do it!
I love the way the NYG have just kept on drafting DE's
even though they already were loaded on the D-line.
But then they do go draft Prince Amukamara in the 1st too
didnt they!?! They still addressed their secondary at CB.

[Rohirrim]

Only because of Flacco's bad throw did Champ not get torched for a third TD and another 70 yards.

[Mediator12]

My problem is, why is Champ playing those coverages in the first place?

Everyone is all over JDR and the Job he did this season, but he blew it Saturday in gameplanning, adjustments, and preparation for BAL. Champ did play woefully awful yesterday, but really only on the deep balls. In fact, the defense gave up more big plays in this game, than it did the whole second half of the season. They gave up 4 big plays: 3 passes over 40 yards and one run over 30 yards in the game! If they simply keep BAL from making those big plays, chances are they score 13 or 17 points in this game instead of 38. All four of those big plays lead to TD's as well. No FG's or big stops for the defense this game, and they had their worst 3rd down conversion % since NE.

Lots of blame to go around for this one, but the brilliant second half defensive adjustments they came up with all year were nowhere to be seen. In fact, they got worse instead of better in the second half.

[24champ]

In this game, there was zero pressure on Flacco when it comes time to throwing a deep pass. The secondary deserves their share of the blame in this mess, but the front seven are just as accountable for it. Von Miller and Dumervil didn't do diddly squat in this game. Half a sack is all Von and Dumervil can muster in this game? Bull****.

[DENVERDUI55]

Originally Posted by WolfpackGuy

I dunno.

Chad Johnson earlier in 2004 was a pretty ugly performance.

Agreed he did make a great pick in that game though so I make that his 3rd worst.

[cabronco]

Originally Posted by 24champ

In this game, there was zero pressure on Flacco when it comes time to throwing a deep pass. The secondary deserves their share of the blame in this mess, but the front seven are just as accountable for it. Von Miller and Dumervil didn't do diddly squat in this game. Half a sack is all Von and Dumervil can muster in this game? Bull****.

This^ We need to find a player or two that can get push up the middle, especially on 3rd downs. I know they're hard to find but its key to having a great defense. Flacco had a clean pocket almost all day to wait for his receivers to go long. They got pressure on Manning up the middle whcih helped them win the game. Our run defense was very good, now I hope they address a pash rush up the gut !

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Mediator12

My problem is, why is Champ playing those coverages in the first place?

Everyone is all over JDR and the Job he did this season, but he blew it Saturday in gameplanning, adjustments, and preparation for BAL. Champ did play woefully awful yesterday, but really only on the deep balls. In fact, the defense gave up more big plays in this game, than it did the whole second half of the season. They gave up 4 big plays: 3 passes over 40 yards and one run over 30 yards in the game! If they simply keep BAL from making those big plays, chances are they score 13 or 17 points in this game instead of 38. All four of those big plays lead to TD's as well. No FG's or big stops for the defense this game, and they had their worst 3rd down conversion % since NE.

Lots of blame to go around for this one, but the brilliant second half defensive adjustments they came up with all year were nowhere to be seen. In fact, they got worse instead of better in the second half.

110% the bold.

If you're going to sell out back end coverage to scheme pressure, then you better generate some ****ing pressure.

[BroncoMan4ever]

Originally Posted by Fedaykin

Bottom line: the Ravens were here to win, and didn't mind playing dirty to get there. Illegal kicking practice, dirty play in the trenches (illegal use of hands rampantly), tripping, pushing off, etc.

Bought off or not, the refs let it happen.

This is how playoff football should be played. Let the players play. Baltimore was more physical and played a better game.

[OrangeCrush2724]

Originally Posted by cabronco

This^ We need to find a player or two that can get push up the middle, especially on 3rd downs. I know they're hard to find but its key to having a great defense. Flacco had a clean pocket almost all day to wait for his receivers to go long. They got pressure on Manning up the middle whcih helped them win the game. Our run defense was very good, now I hope they address a pash rush up the gut !

I can't remember ever Dumerville making a sack with the game on the line. I could be mistaken, but it seems all of his sacks come in garbage time.

[razorwire77]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush2724

I can't remember ever Dumerville making a sack with the game on the line. I could be mistaken, but it seems all of his sacks come in garbage time.

He was basically tackled twice when he had a clear path to Flacco.

[Mouth]

The three times champ got beat deep, he failed to "bump" even though he was playing bump and run. Watch the plays for yourself. all three times he didn't re-direct the WR at the LoS.

[pootz22]

I didn't get to watch more than 15 min of the beginning and the end so could someone tell me if Moreno was injured when someone was holding his leg in the pile?