John Elway - The Orange Mane

Action · 01-13-2013, 02:21 PM

First off, amidst the depression all of us are feeling... congrats to Elway for putting this team together and doing everything he could.

I wanted to get some opinions on whether you guys think he'll force a philosophy change on John Fox? Not in everything Fox does, but the decision in those crucial moments. That is, the conservative style of playing in those crucial situations.

Too many times we had chances to impose our will to win the game. 31 seconds left and 2 timeouts? 3rd and 7?

I'd like to take the time here to say that I don't blame ONLY Rahim Moore for the loss...to do that would mean I would believe in the fact that a football game is decided on 1 play.

And to lose by 3 points really shows how GREAT this Broncos team is/was. We had to have something go terribly wrong in EVERY facet of the game in order for us to barely lose. From offense, defense, special teams, and refs.... there is no way you can pin this on one player or coach.

At the end of the day though, this is John Fox's team, so if there is blame to go, it goes to him.

I just hope John Elway does something about this.

Chris · 01-13-2013, 02:25 PM

I don't think you can impose a philosophy change on a coach. There are so many variables that go into those game time decisions that it has to come from the coach himself. It's up to Fox and Fox alone. I'm not optimistic he'll be able to change his ways at his age.

Action · 01-13-2013, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

I don't think you can impose a philosophy change on a coach. There are so many variables that go into those game time decisions that it has to come from the coach himself. It's up to Fox and Fox alone. I'm not optimistic he'll be able to change his ways at his age.

Not a whole philosophy change, but those decisions in those crucial situations. I'm sure Elway will bring up the fact that you have Manning at QB, and you need to impose that on other teams in those situations.

jmz313 · 01-13-2013, 02:33 PM

No chance. Can't change a coach's philosophy and Elway ain't forcing anything after 1 loss due to it. 3,4,5 years of playoff losses like this then you can talk new coach to get over hump... Or fox says F- it and goes for it on his own.

Dr. Broncenstein · 01-13-2013, 02:35 PM

Hey coach pretend you have a set of balls and make decisions accordingly.

BroncoBen · 01-13-2013, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

I don't think you can impose a philosophy change on a coach. There are so many variables that go into those game time decisions that it has to come from the coach himself. It's up to Fox and Fox alone. I'm not optimistic he'll be able to change his ways at his age.

Well I've always looked at some coaches, and Fox is one of them.. That they are involved in the game planning during the week but leave the game time calls to the assistants.

McCoy needs to be let go.. All season long I felt there was a power struggle going on between him and Manning.

This is the time for Elway to look at the team and make a change.

go_broncos · 01-13-2013, 02:40 PM

John Fox will not change his philosophy.
very few coaches change their philosophy at his age.
If you ask Marty now..he will say the same thing.
The only way is to fire the coach(like SD did) or hope that we will be facing a coach more than dumb than him.

Tombstone RJ · 01-13-2013, 02:43 PM

The team (Elway included) needs to go back and look at the tape on this game and scrutinize it very carefully. I think what they will find out is that this loss is not as much on the coaching staff is it is on the players. Manning turning the ball over 3 times, the defense not getting pressure on Flacco and allowing third and long conversions, etc. And even special teams not being able to kick a makable FG. Those kind of mistakes are on the players, not the coaches IMHO.

Rocket 7 · 01-13-2013, 02:43 PM

3rd and 7 and a first down wins the game. You should run something like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ20t2H1oXI

Tombstone RJ · 01-13-2013, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket 7

3rd and 7 and a first down wins the game. You should run something like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ20t2H1oXI

wow, great call Rocket 7. This was what the ratbirds did to the Broncos so it's a role reversal of sorts. The ratbirds made these plays, the Broncos did not. The Broncos couldn't even convert in short yardage instances, 3rd and inches and the Broncos hand the ball of to Hillman and no gain. That is on the offensive line more than anyone else (maybe Hillman too be he's not a power back, that's not his strenght).

Al Wilson · 01-13-2013, 02:50 PM

Best thing Elway can do is hand the offense completely to Manning and let him take ccontrol of every offensive situation and every down, and let Fox handle the defense only.

I knew we were going to lose the game yesterday right before half time when you had 3 timeouts and time to go get atleast a field goal with Manning as your QB, but you end up taking a knee. Just pathetic to be honest. I'm sure Elway was pissed too.

ZONA · 01-13-2013, 03:22 PM

You know when I go back and look at that play right before the end of regulation, the more I think some blame has to go to JDR. The Ravens had to score a TD, a FG does them no good. So you know they are in 4 down territory. The 3rd and 7 play where the CB plays the WR and then drops off coverage after 15 yards or so into a zone, meaning the safety has ALL the responsibility of preventing a huge play. Knowing you have a very young player who's never really been in that situation before, I'm not so sure I call that coverage. Forget the zone drop off and run that CB all the way with the WR and have your safety as the 2nd layer of defense. They had NO timeouts left. Even if they complete that pass, which would have been much harder with 2 defensive players there, they still have very little time to get a touchdown. So what if that short zone the CB would have left was open, you don't mind giving up a few small chunks. Again, no timeouts. The 1 thing you can't have is somebody beat you deep. Very bad play by Moore but I can't say that I was in love with the coverage called either. Not in that circumstance.

Bronco Boy · 01-13-2013, 03:25 PM

Saying that Moore has never been in that situation before is a stretch. He's been playing safety for a a long time.

BroncoBuff · 01-13-2013, 04:29 PM

Maybe Fox's version of Marty-ball did doom us to failure yesterday. But remember the situation John stepped into 24 months ago: Utter chaos, a team record 12 losses, franchise branded as cheaters, the cupboards bare. What's he gonna do, hire some young firebrand coach from Conference USA who's established a darned good track record? Of course not. You hire stability, you hire NFL experience, NFL success, NFL know-how. You hire John Fox. And it worked pretty damn well until yesterday. (Although I guess Elway offered Harbaugh the job, and he's not unlike my silly example there).

John's management style has been perfect ... casual, no drama, relaxed and informal with the press. So different than Shanahan's tense monotone or Josh's pinhead BMOC attitude (anybody see the clip of stupid Josh on an NFL Network promo this week? f'ing pinhead.) Anyway, I think players and staff respond to his style, it seemed to change the toxic atmosphere right away.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: Still early, but It looks to me like he's an even better GM than he was a quarterback.

orinjkrush · 01-13-2013, 04:47 PM

John needs to watch the Pastriots-Ravens game. And watch how Brady dissects them.

Then he will be able to compare the Bronco weaknesses with what it takes to win.

Position by position. Coach by coach.

BroncoBuff · 01-13-2013, 05:19 PM

I don't think his transformative management style is an accident, either. John knows what he's doing, he's a Stanford Business School grad remember.

The "power handshake" is not easy, in fact it's very difficult.

You pull his hand into your gut, while pressing your left hand on his upper arm or shoulder to make distance. The result is the image of power and control. John does it quite well, and quite intentionally.

01-13-2013, 02:21 PM	#1
Action Perennial Pro-bowler New to the Forum Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 884 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	John Elway First off, amidst the depression all of us are feeling... congrats to Elway for putting this team together and doing everything he could. I wanted to get some opinions on whether you guys think he'll force a philosophy change on John Fox? Not in everything Fox does, but the decision in those crucial moments. That is, the conservative style of playing in those crucial situations. Too many times we had chances to impose our will to win the game. 31 seconds left and 2 timeouts? 3rd and 7? I'd like to take the time here to say that I don't blame ONLY Rahim Moore for the loss...to do that would mean I would believe in the fact that a football game is decided on 1 play. And to lose by 3 points really shows how GREAT this Broncos team is/was. We had to have something go terribly wrong in EVERY facet of the game in order for us to barely lose. From offense, defense, special teams, and refs.... there is no way you can pin this on one player or coach. At the end of the day though, this is John Fox's team, so if there is blame to go, it goes to him. I just hope John Elway does something about this. Last edited by Action; 01-13-2013 at 02:24 PM..

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01-13-2013, 02:25 PM	#2
Chris Millenium Scrooge McDuck Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 7,501 Adopt-a-Bronco: OrlandoFranklin	I don't think you can impose a philosophy change on a coach. There are so many variables that go into those game time decisions that it has to come from the coach himself. It's up to Fox and Fox alone. I'm not optimistic he'll be able to change his ways at his age.

01-13-2013, 02:33 PM	#4
jmz313 Perennial Pro-bowler Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 982	No chance. Can't change a coach's philosophy and Elway ain't forcing anything after 1 loss due to it. 3,4,5 years of playoff losses like this then you can talk new coach to get over hump... Or fox says F- it and goes for it on his own.

01-13-2013, 02:35 PM	#5
Dr. Broncenstein Overdriven Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Sterile Fields Posts: 11,622 Adopt-a-Bronco: Wesley Woodyard	Hey coach pretend you have a set of balls and make decisions accordingly.

01-13-2013, 02:40 PM	#7
go_broncos Ring of Famer **** you Bill Vinovich Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 5,220 Adopt-a-Bronco: Rod Smith	John Fox will not change his philosophy. very few coaches change their philosophy at his age. If you ask Marty now..he will say the same thing. The only way is to fire the coach(like SD did) or hope that we will be facing a coach more than dumb than him.

01-13-2013, 02:43 PM	#8
Tombstone RJ Ring of Famer Old School Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In the Tetons! Posts: 19,313 Adopt-a-Bronco: WorrellWilliams	The team (Elway included) needs to go back and look at the tape on this game and scrutinize it very carefully. I think what they will find out is that this loss is not as much on the coaching staff is it is on the players. Manning turning the ball over 3 times, the defense not getting pressure on Flacco and allowing third and long conversions, etc. And even special teams not being able to kick a makable FG. Those kind of mistakes are on the players, not the coaches IMHO.

01-13-2013, 02:43 PM	#9
Rocket 7 Formerly known as Dipso Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 4,723 Adopt-a-Bronco: Paul Smith 70	3rd and 7 and a first down wins the game. You should run something like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ20t2H1oXI

01-13-2013, 02:50 PM	#11
Al Wilson Perennial Pro-bowler Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 943	Best thing Elway can do is hand the offense completely to Manning and let him take ccontrol of every offensive situation and every down, and let Fox handle the defense only. I knew we were going to lose the game yesterday right before half time when you had 3 timeouts and time to go get atleast a field goal with Manning as your QB, but you end up taking a knee. Just pathetic to be honest. I'm sure Elway was pissed too.

01-13-2013, 03:22 PM	#12
ZONA Ring of Famer Liquid greatness in every packet Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,402 Adopt-a-Bronco: Chris Harris	You know when I go back and look at that play right before the end of regulation, the more I think some blame has to go to JDR. The Ravens had to score a TD, a FG does them no good. So you know they are in 4 down territory. The 3rd and 7 play where the CB plays the WR and then drops off coverage after 15 yards or so into a zone, meaning the safety has ALL the responsibility of preventing a huge play. Knowing you have a very young player who's never really been in that situation before, I'm not so sure I call that coverage. Forget the zone drop off and run that CB all the way with the WR and have your safety as the 2nd layer of defense. They had NO timeouts left. Even if they complete that pass, which would have been much harder with 2 defensive players there, they still have very little time to get a touchdown. So what if that short zone the CB would have left was open, you don't mind giving up a few small chunks. Again, no timeouts. The 1 thing you can't have is somebody beat you deep. Very bad play by Moore but I can't say that I was in love with the coverage called either. Not in that circumstance.

01-13-2013, 03:25 PM	#13
Bronco Boy Avid Ambien Abuser It all makes so much sense! Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 1,901 Adopt-a-Bronco: Eric Decker	Saying that Moore has never been in that situation before is a stretch. He's been playing safety for a a long time.

01-13-2013, 04:29 PM	#14
BroncoBuff *************** Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 25,440 Adopt-a-Bronco: QUANTERUS SMITH	Maybe Fox's version of Marty-ball did doom us to failure yesterday. But remember the situation John stepped into 24 months ago: Utter chaos, a team record 12 losses, franchise branded as cheaters, the cupboards bare. What's he gonna do, hire some young firebrand coach from Conference USA who's established a darned good track record? Of course not. You hire stability, you hire NFL experience, NFL success, NFL know-how. You hire John Fox. And it worked pretty damn well until yesterday. (Although I guess Elway offered Harbaugh the job, and he's not unlike my silly example there). John's management style has been perfect ... casual, no drama, relaxed and informal with the press. So different than Shanahan's tense monotone or Josh's pinhead BMOC attitude (anybody see the clip of stupid Josh on an NFL Network promo this week? f'ing pinhead.) Anyway, I think players and staff respond to his style, it seemed to change the toxic atmosphere right away. I've said it before, I'll say it again: Still early, but It looks to me like he's an even better GM than he was a quarterback.

01-13-2013, 04:47 PM	#15
orinjkrush ... Prospects for the future... Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DistrictOfCorruption Posts: 4,914 Adopt-a-Bronco: Ben Garland	John needs to watch the Pastriots-Ravens game. And watch how Brady dissects them. Then he will be able to compare the Bronco weaknesses with what it takes to win. Position by position. Coach by coach.

01-13-2013, 05:19 PM	#16
BroncoBuff *************** Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 25,440 Adopt-a-Bronco: QUANTERUS SMITH	I don't think his transformative management style is an accident, either. John knows what he's doing, he's a Stanford Business School grad remember. The "power handshake" is not easy, in fact it's very difficult. You pull his hand into your gut, while pressing your left hand on his upper arm or shoulder to make distance. The result is the image of power and control. John does it quite well, and quite intentionally.