The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-11-2013, 04:14 AM   #1
dsmoot
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 1,709
Default Deja Vu All Over Again

Yes on paper and in the reasoning minds of every Bronco fan, this Saturday's game vs the Ravens seems like a foregone conclusion. However this game has a very disturbing feeling about it. Manning led offense against an aging Ravens defense. An inconsistent QB (Flacco) with a very good RB (Rice) against an vastly improved, excellent pass rushing defense. Couple that with a very overconfident fan base (Mane) and all the TV pundits having already talking about a NE-Den AFC Championship game.

This has that 1996 feeling. Denver really hasn't had that playoff pressure, not many really close games (adversity) for a while nor have they had that flat game yet. I can see many situations where Flacco could come out and take care of the ball better, establish a good running game and give Denver fits. The Raven defense is considerably healthier since the last game. Many of those guys have that playoff experience and at any time play at a very high level, put pressure on Manning and get the Denver offense off balance. The Raven expectations by outsiders is very low. Don't discount the Ray retirement emotional factor.

This game has some real potential for an upset.

Last edited by dsmoot; 01-11-2013 at 04:17 AM..
dsmoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 01-11-2013, 04:23 AM   #2
Bronco Rob
Ring of Famer
 
Bronco Rob's Avatar
 
The Alpha & The Omega

Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,749

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Kush & Irsay
Default

FYI: The Broncos defense has not allowed a 300 yard passer all season, nor a 100 yard rusher since Joe Mays was put on the IR. If Michael Dean Perry had waddled his tubby butt off the field, Elway would have three rings.

The sky is not falling: repeat: The sky is not falling...


Bronco Rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 04:43 AM   #3
backup qb
Ring of Famer
 
backup qb's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Shelbyville,Il
Posts: 1,290
Default

I still hate Michael Dean Perry for that.
backup qb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 05:02 AM   #4
gunns
I WANT DEFENSE!
 
gunns's Avatar
 
Defense, defense, defense

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Always Hoping
Posts: 12,527

Adopt-a-Bronco:
TJ Ward
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmoot View Post
Yes on paper and in the reasoning minds of every Bronco fan, this Saturday's game vs the Ravens seems like a foregone conclusion. However this game has a very disturbing feeling about it. Manning led offense against an aging Ravens defense. An inconsistent QB (Flacco) with a very good RB (Rice) against an vastly improved, excellent pass rushing defense. Couple that with a very overconfident fan base (Mane) and all the TV pundits having already talking about a NE-Den AFC Championship game.

This has that 1996 feeling. Denver really hasn't had that playoff pressure, not many really close games (adversity) for a while nor have they had that flat game yet. I can see many situations where Flacco could come out and take care of the ball better, establish a good running game and give Denver fits. The Raven defense is considerably healthier since the last game. Many of those guys have that playoff experience and at any time play at a very high level, put pressure on Manning and get the Denver offense off balance. The Raven expectations by outsiders is very low. Don't discount the Ray retirement emotional factor.

This game has some real potential for an upset.
I have felt like this all week mainly because we've had so many disappointments over the last 13 years. But I do not look at the Ravens the same way I did Jacksonville. They would have to be this years Chiefs for me to do that.

I think a lot of Bronco fans are being realistic, the ones I've talked with. Yes it could happen but I also believe the Broncos themselves are not viewing the Ravens as a "gimme" game and will play to their full abilities. They (primarily Manning) know about the Ravens playoff experience and that they will be putting pressure on Manning. I think this comes down to our defense and I have confidence in them. I do not feel the Ray emotional factor will play as huge a role in Denver, that was last week.

At least I hope that's the way it plays out. I'm a nervous wreck.
gunns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 05:08 AM   #5
Bronco X
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmoot View Post
Couple that with a very overconfident fan base (Mane) and all the TV pundits having already talking about a NE-Den AFC Championship game.
How does this factor into the outcome? Unless the Broncos themselves are adopting the attitude... is there any evidence from the coverage of their preparation this week that they are overconfident or looking ahead to the Patriots?

Quote:
Don't discount the Ray retirement emotional factor.
I'm not discounting the potential of a upset, but yeah, I discount this. Ray retirement emotion isn't going to carry the Ravens any further than Chuck Pagano returning emotion carried the Colts. These things might work for one game, but eventually, it's going to be about playing football.
Bronco X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 06:47 AM   #6
dsmoot
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 1,709
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco X View Post
How does this factor into the outcome? Unless the Broncos themselves are adopting the attitude... is there any evidence from the coverage of their preparation this week that they are overconfident or looking ahead to the Patriots?



I'm not discounting the potential of a upset, but yeah, I discount this. Ray retirement emotion isn't going to carry the Ravens any further than Chuck Pagano returning emotion carried the Colts. These things might work for one game, but eventually, it's going to be about playing football.
Point no. 1 above. It doesn't factor in unless the inexperienced, young Broncos are mentally buying into. I don't know. I brought that up as an example how this has that 1996 feel to it. Jacksonville was nothing more that a speed bump to Denver in 96. That game had a significant impact into the way the Bronco team faced the playoff the following two years. Take no one for granted.

Point No. 2 above. Ray Lewis is not Chuck Pagano. Ray is on the field and is the intangible emotional leader that lifts the play of that defense. Watch out, this factor is not to be discounted. That same factor was a very much in evidence with Elway and the Broncos those last two years.

This is a scary game. There are a significant number of Broncos that have never been here before (playoffs and pressure). The Ravens are being discounted by everyone and there are a number of playoff hardened vets on that team that know what this is all about. This is the intangible that has significant impact.
dsmoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 06:58 AM   #7
keef
Solid Starter
 
keef's Avatar
 
I hate Oakland.

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 105
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco Rob View Post
If Michael Dean Perry had waddled his tubby butt off the field, Elway would have three rings.

I don't remember the details of the game...what are you referring to here?
keef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 07:01 AM   #8
TheReverend
Permanent Facepalm
 
TheReverend's Avatar
 
Not. Too. Shabby.

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 36,956

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Mike Shanahan
Default

Stop comparing it to 96!!!!!!!!!!!
TheReverend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 07:03 AM   #9
delany
Uber Bronco
 
delany's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,042
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keef View Post
I don't remember the details of the game...what are you referring to here?
Your memory is as bad as MDP hustle and game awareness.
delany is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 07:08 AM   #10
bronco militia
OMG...this is horrible!
 
bronco militia's Avatar
 
THE GREATEST

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: colorado springs, co
Posts: 24,678
Default

what about 1984?
bronco militia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 07:12 AM   #11
El Guapo
aka mav_7. who?
 
El Guapo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,998
Default

Laces out!

Seriously though, I think our main problem in 96 was that the team clinched the division at the beginning of December and played no meaningful games until that playoff game. This year every game was meaningful, even that Chefs game, because we needed to clinch the #1 seed.
El Guapo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 07:17 AM   #12
ColoradoDarin
Not Too Shabby Poster
 
ColoradoDarin's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Unsettled, NC
Posts: 7,523

Adopt-a-Bronco:
T J Ward
Default

Also in 96, that team won a few games they should have lost, we were really a 10-6 team that had 3 lucky bounces (Eddie Mac's deflected TD catch on the last play against Minnesota IIRC was one of them), this team is nothing like that.
ColoradoDarin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 07:17 AM   #13
Bronco X
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmoot View Post
Point no. 1 above. It doesn't factor in unless the inexperienced, young Broncos are mentally buying into. I don't know. I brought that up as an example how this has that 1996 feel to it. Jacksonville was nothing more that a speed bump to Denver in 96. That game had a significant impact into the way the Bronco team faced the playoff the following two years. Take no one for granted.

Point No. 2 above. Ray Lewis is not Chuck Pagano. Ray is on the field and is the intangible emotional leader that lifts the play of that defense. Watch out, this factor is not to be discounted. That same factor was a very much in evidence with Elway and the Broncos those last two years.

This is a scary game. There are a significant number of Broncos that have never been here before (playoffs and pressure). The Ravens are being discounted by everyone and there are a number of playoff hardened vets on that team that know what this is all about. This is the intangible that has significant impact.
The Broncos did not win two Super Bowls because of the emotional Elway factor... they won because they were the best team. Sure, you can argue they had a team capable of competing for a title and the emotional Elway factor helped get them over the top. But it did not carry an inferior team to two titles. If the Ravens are as good or equal to the Broncos, it may be a factor. But why is Ray Lewis more important to the Ravens than Manning or Bailey is to the Broncos?

It's fine to be worried. The Broncos may lose. But acknowledge what is crystal ball heebee jeebees about the worry and what comes from real analysis. Emotional Ray Ray factor is pure crystal ball heebee jeebees.
Bronco X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 07:34 AM   #14
Tombstone RJ
Ring of Famer
 
Tombstone RJ's Avatar
 
Old School

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Tetons!
Posts: 22,035

Adopt-a-Bronco:
WorrellWilliams
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmoot View Post
Yes on paper and in the reasoning minds of every Bronco fan, this Saturday's game vs the Ravens seems like a foregone conclusion. However this game has a very disturbing feeling about it. Manning led offense against an aging Ravens defense. An inconsistent QB (Flacco) with a very good RB (Rice) against an vastly improved, excellent pass rushing defense. Couple that with a very overconfident fan base (Mane) and all the TV pundits having already talking about a NE-Den AFC Championship game.

This has that 1996 feeling. Denver really hasn't had that playoff pressure, not many really close games (adversity) for a while nor have they had that flat game yet. I can see many situations where Flacco could come out and take care of the ball better, establish a good running game and give Denver fits. The Raven defense is considerably healthier since the last game. Many of those guys have that playoff experience and at any time play at a very high level, put pressure on Manning and get the Denver offense off balance. The Raven expectations by outsiders is very low. Don't discount the Ray retirement emotional factor.

This game has some real potential for an upset.
The thing is, Elway is head of football operations and I'm sure he is communicating this "1996 feeling" to the team and warning them of complacency.
Tombstone RJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 07:51 AM   #15
Kaylore
Shall we begin?
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
You should have let me sleep!

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 45,937

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

First of all, the fans overconfidence or arrogance has literally nothing to do with how the players play. If the fans were less confident in 1996, would the outcome have been any different? Would Michel Dean Perry have run faster because the fans weren't overconfident?

Second, this isn't the '96 team. The 1997 team actually was a better scoring offense and scoring defense than the '96 team, even though their record was worse. This team has a better scoring defense than the 96 team and a better scoring defense than both teams.

I said this on the podcast, the 96 team hadn't been in a playoff game in three years. It was Mike's second year with the team and he a turned over a ton of the roster. They were noobs in the playoffs. This team has played in two playoff games and won one at home. They know how to win games at home.

The Ravens are 4-4 on the road. Their road wins include the Browns, The Chiefs, the Chargers (the Ray Rice dump off) and a banged up Steelers team. The have lost to the Eagles, Redskins, Texans and Bengals - Three quality teams and one crappy team.

Joe Flacco is a bad road QB that has a tendency to over throw his targets and is coming into thin air.

Are there ways the Ravens could win? Sure! They play good redzone defense. If they run the ball to the edges and win first and second down, they can keep us off the field. If there is cold and wet conditions, Manning's passing game could take a hit. The problem is so would Flacco's.

The Ravens would need several things to go their way to beat us. The fans arrogance has an affect on none of those things.
Kaylore is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 08:02 AM   #16
Bronco Boy
Avid Ambien Abuser
 
Bronco Boy's Avatar
 
Eric Fischer: Catholic Priest

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New York. **** you too.
Posts: 2,004

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Lamin Barrow
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
First of all, the fans overconfidence or arrogance has literally nothing to do with how the players play. If the fans were less confident in 1996, would the outcome have been any different? Would Michel Dean Perry have run faster because the fans weren't overconfident?

Second, this isn't the '96 team. The 1997 team actually was a better scoring offense and scoring defense than the '96 team, even though their record was worse. This team has a better scoring defense than the 96 team and a better scoring defense than both teams.

I said this on the podcast, the 96 team hadn't been in a playoff game in three years. It was Mike's second year with the team and he a turned over a ton of the roster. They were noobs in the playoffs. This team has played in two playoff games and won one at home. They know how to win games at home.

The Ravens are 4-4 on the road. Their road wins include the Browns, The Chiefs, the Chargers (the Ray Rice dump off) and a banged up Steelers team. The have lost to the Eagles, Redskins, Texans and Bengals - Three quality teams and one crappy team.

Joe Flacco is a bad road QB that has a tendency to over throw his targets and is coming into thin air.

Are there ways the Ravens could win? Sure! They play good redzone defense. If they run the ball to the edges and win first and second down, they can keep us off the field. If there is cold and wet conditions, Manning's passing game could take a hit. The problem is so would Flacco's.

The Ravens would need several things to go their way to beat us. The fans arrogance has an affect on none of those things.
The Ravens also have the best special teams in the league, so any scenario where they win this game would have to include some great returns or punt blocks, etc.
Bronco Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 08:18 AM   #17
Archer81
Optimum Homo
 
Archer81's Avatar
 
Tactical Neck.

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 22,552
Default

The Broncos are healthy, rested, and have recent playoff experience. Of course we are going to lose just like in 1996.

...

Archer81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 08:25 AM   #18
spdirty
Ring of Famer
 
spdirty's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bailey
Posts: 14,522

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Quentin Jammer
Default

Shanahan outcoached himself and put together a garbage gameplan for that game, took the ball out of Davis's hands. That's not gonna happen this game.

Lot of people worry about certain things because they are flat out scared to accept the fact that this is probably the most complete team in Broncos history. They still have to prove it, and right now should be looked at as the 9th best Broncos team ever, until they advance, but just be comfortable. This is a damn good team. They will come up with a great gameplan, and they WILL NOT overlook the Ravens so that us fans can.
spdirty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 08:34 AM   #19
delany
Uber Bronco
 
delany's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,042
Default

The comparisons to how a fan felt prior to the 1996 Jags game and this weekend is accurate. The fanbase was\is supremely confident both times. So I don't fault people for having that deja vu feeling.

The difference here is not so much the Broncos...but the opponent.

The Jags were on a roll. Brunell was having a monster year and they caught lightning in a bottle that game with him and Jimmy Smith et al. I remember a 3rd and forever roll out by Brunell where they converted. During the game it was an ut-oh moment that this may just be their day. It was. They had a ton of things go perfectly for them and they won because of Brunell have the best game of his career.

Bottom line. 2012 Flacco is no where near what 1996 Brunell was.

A day may come when a Broncos team fails, when they go into a game as heavy favorites, but it is not this day. A game of shattered expectations, when the Super Bowl hopes of Mile High comes crashing down! But it is not this day! This day they win!
delany is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 08:46 AM   #20
Kaylore
Shall we begin?
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
You should have let me sleep!

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 45,937

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

Those are great points spdirty and delany. McCoy and company don't out-think themselves like Shanny did.

And The Ravens were paper dragons. They were barely beating really bad teams on miracle plays and then finally went on a three game losing streak. They got a team playing entirely on emotion in the playoff round and were playing on emotion themselves. Their defense played 80 snaps and got 6 weeks of rest. I really think they come out flat.
Kaylore is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 08:48 AM   #21
SleepingTiger
Ring of Famer
 
SleepingTiger's Avatar
 
Ole J

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Murphy TX
Posts: 1,531

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Tony Carter
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keef View Post
I don't remember the details of the game...what are you referring to here?
it was 4th down and MDP was walking to the sidelines. He was about 5 yrds away when the Jaguars hiked the ball, thus there was a 12 man on the field penalty giving the Jaguars a first down. They went ahead and scored a touchdown on that drive.
SleepingTiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 08:50 AM   #22
Binkythefrog
Seasoned Veteran
 

Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 387
Default

There is also little evidence that teams with easy schedules down the stretch have a letdown and perform poorly in the playoffs.

Check out this analysis from Grantland:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...-playoff-games

"The other team that faced a 44-84 schedule during the second half of the season went 7-1 during the final eight games of the year, losing in Week 17 with nothing to play for. It didn't seem to bother them as they headed into the playoffs, as that team the 1999 St. Louis Rams went on to win the Super Bowl. There are 15 other teams since 1990 with a second-half strength of schedule under .400, and three of them (the 1992 Cowboys, 2000 Ravens, and 2009 Saints) managed to win the Super Bowl. The 2011 Patriots made it to the Super Bowl and lost. Just four of the 16 teams were dumped from the postseason without winning a game, and in each case, they were underdogs in the game in question by three points or more. There's virtually no evidence suggesting that teams grow complacent after a friendly second-half slate, so don't expect the Broncos to do the same."

It the Broncos were built more like Seattle with a lot of youth - I think there might be concern here. Denver has many long time vets - Manning, Brooking, Bailey, Koppen, and some vets playing in their first playoff game (Kuper, Adams). I highly doubt these guys are going to have a let down - they know how rare these opportunities come as a player and I'm sure they will be ballin on Saturday.

Of course there is a chance the Ravens pull of the upset - but they are going to have to play nearly a perfect game as others have suggested - and they are capable (look at NE last year). I'm just happy this game is at home - Denver earned home field and I'm sure it will come in handy come tomorrow.

Last edited by Binkythefrog; 01-11-2013 at 08:55 AM..
Binkythefrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 08:53 AM   #23
SleepingTiger
Ring of Famer
 
SleepingTiger's Avatar
 
Ole J

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Murphy TX
Posts: 1,531

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Tony Carter
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoDarin View Post
Also in 96, that team won a few games they should have lost, we were really a 10-6 team that had 3 lucky bounces (Eddie Mac's deflected TD catch on the last play against Minnesota IIRC was one of them), this team is nothing like that.
+1

I always thought the 96 team was overrated. Their only significant win an away game vs the Patriots. IMO, the 97 superbowl was not possible if we had not lost the the jaguars. I remember having many doubts during the 96 season, but was fairly confident with the 97 team even though we were a wild card team.
SleepingTiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 08:55 AM   #24
Wes Mantooth
Ring of Famer
 
Wes Mantooth's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,845
Default

newsflash: Michael Dean Perry has come out of retirement and signed on in a deserve roll with the Ravens.


phew.
Wes Mantooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 08:55 AM   #25
jonny1
Ahhh, football!
 
Broncos' cheerleaders rule!

Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,507

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Kuper
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by delany View Post
A day may come when a Broncos team fails, when they go into a game as heavy favorites, but it is not this day. A game of shattered expectations, when the Super Bowl hopes of Mile High comes crashing down! But it is not this day! This day they win!

Nice Aragorn use . . . .
jonny1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:58 PM.


Denver Broncos