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Old 01-06-2013, 11:11 AM   #51
ChampJesusBailey
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Originally Posted by Drek View Post
Holy **** that article in insulting to the entire rest of the Denver Broncos.

So Demaryius Thomas and Eric Decker putting up Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne numbers is entirely a product of Manning? They're both damn good players in their own right in only their third season in the league. Manning's success this year isn't a product of Manning alone, these two guys have done a lot to help him out and this attitude that Manning is 100% responsible for their success instead of seeing it for the symbiotic relationship it is degrades their contributions.

The 8-8 to 13-3 jump also completely ignores the massive improvement in our defense from a middling squad with a few playmakers to an elite group with stars paired with damn good starters almost across the board. Miller took his DROY 2011 season and turned it up a few notches for 2012. Doom looked even better in 2012 than he did in 2011. Woodyard had a massive step forward. Chris Harris broke through like a beast. Raheem Moore has grown by leaps and bounds. Wolfe and Ayers are an impressive strong side DE tandem. And lets not forget Champ holding father time at bay with apparent ease.

These guys are a big part of why this team improved, not just Manning.

Lets also not overlook the improved TE play from FA signings, the step forward we've seen both Zane Beadles and Orlando Franklin take, and the gradual return to form of Ryan Clady.

Willis McGahee was playing some of the best football of his career before getting hurt and Knowshon Moreno is playing hands down the best football of his career now in place of him.

This team's success is the product of all of the above.

Meanwhile the single biggest difference the Vikings have seen between their 2011 3-13 season and their 10-6 2012 season was Peterson. Not just getting back from his ACL tear but then having one of the single most dominant RB seasons ever with little to no passing game to back him up.

MVP is a single season award for the most valuable player over a 16 game span. Without Manning the Broncos were likely a playoff team still. Without Peterson the Vikings are trying to decide who they pick in the top 5 of next year's draft. This shouldn't even be hard and if Manning wins it they should just formally announce that it's a QBs only award.

Want a good stat to highlight it? In Terrell Davis' 1998 MVP season he had the following stat line with an all world team around him:
2008 rushing yards
5.1 yards per carry
125.5 yards per game
15 20+ yard runs
6 40+ yard runs

Adrian Peterson on a weak Vikings team with no other superstar on offense to help him out:
2097 rushing yards
6.0 yards per carry
131.1 yards per game
27 20+ yard runs
8 40+ yard runs

Now I thin TD was the clear cut MVP in 1998, but thinking that I can't see how I could rationally argue that thinking Peterson trumping TD's '98 season pretty much across the board. Manning's numbers are better than any QB achieved in '98, sure, but the same could be said of Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees. If the MVP is anything other than a QB only award it's got to go to Peterson after putting up the greatest running back's season we've seen to date.



Agreed entirely. Manning has had a great season but this is a QB league, there are 3-4 other QB's who had just as good a season statistically. We'll likely never see another season like the one AD had.
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:57 PM   #52
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Agreed entirely. Manning has had a great season but this is a QB league, there are 3-4 other QB's who had just as good a season statistically. We'll likely never see another season like the one AD had.
They said the same thing after OJ's 2000 yard season....and Eric Dickerson's and Terrell Davis', and Barry Sander's, and Jamal Lewis' and Chris Johnson's.....just saying.
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:01 PM   #53
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Agreed entirely. Manning has had a great season but this is a QB league, there are 3-4 other QB's who had just as good a season statistically. We'll likely never see another season like the one AD had.
Calvin Johnson had a similar season as a wide receiver, but neither come close to being as valuable to their team as Manning. Come on now.
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:44 PM   #54
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I really dont care who wins the MVP so i dont have any favorite here.

Both Peyton and AP had great years but the way i see it, who was more valuable to their team?

Denver went to the playoffs last season with Tebow at QB.

Minnesota does not make the playoffs without AP. No way! Ponder isnt that great and didnt even have 3,000 on nearly 500 attempts. Sure both are coming off of big injuries but Peyton had a whole year from football to heal, AP just months.

If im voting, which im not id give it to AP. I just think he is MORE deserving.

However, i both are deserving and could go either way. I dont think it is a runaway by any means as suggested here.

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Old 01-06-2013, 06:46 PM   #55
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They said the same thing after OJ's 2000 yard season....and Eric Dickerson's and Terrell Davis', and Barry Sander's, and Jamal Lewis' and Chris Johnson's.....just saying.
And none of those were close to Ad's season this year. He beat TD's 2000 yard season per carry average by nearly a yard. TD had 44 more carries, at Ad's YPC that would give him another 264 yards. He already beat TD's total yards by 89 yards. So given the same number of carries he would have had 353 more yards. With Christian Ponder at QB instead of Elway.

Same with Dickerson. 9 yards shy on 32 fewer carries.

That's not to say we'll never see a season better, but he just had the single best season carrying the ball we've seen to date. If that can't win MVP in this league because the passing stats have been so inflated we might as well just remove all pretenses and make it a QB only award.

Fact is, any Bronco fan who thinks TD deserved the MVP in '98 should want AD to win this year. Wasn't that long ago this franchise hung it's hat on running the ball as top offensive priority. AD is starting to look like the last of the breed and deserves the respect he's due you while he's still doin'.
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:46 PM   #56
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Holy **** that article in insulting to the entire rest of the Denver Broncos.

So Demaryius Thomas and Eric Decker putting up Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne numbers is entirely a product of Manning? They're both damn good players in their own right in only their third season in the league. Manning's success this year isn't a product of Manning alone, these two guys have done a lot to help him out and this attitude that Manning is 100% responsible for their success instead of seeing it for the symbiotic relationship it is degrades their contributions.

The 8-8 to 13-3 jump also completely ignores the massive improvement in our defense from a middling squad with a few playmakers to an elite group with stars paired with damn good starters almost across the board. Miller took his DROY 2011 season and turned it up a few notches for 2012. Doom looked even better in 2012 than he did in 2011. Woodyard had a massive step forward. Chris Harris broke through like a beast. Raheem Moore has grown by leaps and bounds. Wolfe and Ayers are an impressive strong side DE tandem. And lets not forget Champ holding father time at bay with apparent ease.

These guys are a big part of why this team improved, not just Manning.

Lets also not overlook the improved TE play from FA signings, the step forward we've seen both Zane Beadles and Orlando Franklin take, and the gradual return to form of Ryan Clady.

Willis McGahee was playing some of the best football of his career before getting hurt and Knowshon Moreno is playing hands down the best football of his career now in place of him.

This team's success is the product of all of the above.

Meanwhile the single biggest difference the Vikings have seen between their 2011 3-13 season and their 10-6 2012 season was Peterson. Not just getting back from his ACL tear but then having one of the single most dominant RB seasons ever with little to no passing game to back him up.

MVP is a single season award for the most valuable player over a 16 game span. Without Manning the Broncos were likely a playoff team still. Without Peterson the Vikings are trying to decide who they pick in the top 5 of next year's draft. This shouldn't even be hard and if Manning wins it they should just formally announce that it's a QBs only award.

Want a good stat to highlight it? In Terrell Davis' 1998 MVP season he had the following stat line with an all world team around him:
2008 rushing yards
5.1 yards per carry
125.5 yards per game
15 20+ yard runs
6 40+ yard runs

Adrian Peterson on a weak Vikings team with no other superstar on offense to help him out:
2097 rushing yards
6.0 yards per carry
131.1 yards per game
27 20+ yard runs
8 40+ yard runs

Now I thin TD was the clear cut MVP in 1998, but thinking that I can't see how I could rationally argue that thinking Peterson trumping TD's '98 season pretty much across the board. Manning's numbers are better than any QB achieved in '98, sure, but the same could be said of Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees. If the MVP is anything other than a QB only award it's got to go to Peterson after putting up the greatest running back's season we've seen to date.
If Harvin doesn't get hurt this year, then AP isn't even in the conversation of MVP. Plain and simple. He was lining up EVERYWHERE in that offense, even as RB.
And the reason all those players you mentioned for the Broncos are playing better has a lot to do with Manning. See my previous post on this thread.
Manning has a bigger impact on the game, he controls it all. MVP.
AP is the OPOY.
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:57 PM   #57
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And none of those were close to Ad's season this year. He beat TD's 2000 yard season per carry average by nearly a yard. TD had 44 more carries, at Ad's YPC that would give him another 264 yards. He already beat TD's total yards by 89 yards. So given the same number of carries he would have had 353 more yards. With Christian Ponder at QB instead of Elway.

Same with Dickerson. 9 yards shy on 32 fewer carries.

That's not to say we'll never see a season better, but he just had the single best season carrying the ball we've seen to date. If that can't win MVP in this league because the passing stats have been so inflated we might as well just remove all pretenses and make it a QB only award.

Fact is, any Bronco fan who thinks TD deserved the MVP in '98 should want AD to win this year. Wasn't that long ago this franchise hung it's hat on running the ball as top offensive priority. AD is starting to look like the last of the breed and deserves the respect he's due you while he's still doin'.
You are focusing way too much on his rushing yardage alone. He had 2097 yards rushing, 217 yards receiving, and 13 total TDs. Terrell Davis had 2008 yards rushing, 217 yards receiving and and 23 total TDs. LaDanian Tomlinson had 1815 yards rushing, 508 yards receiving and 31 total TDs. Peterson's season doesn't really compare unless you think yards are more important than points.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:04 PM   #58
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Barry Sanders also had 6.0 YPC in his 2k season, and he only split the MVP. OJ had more yards per game, Jim Brown averaged 6.4 YPC in his 1800+ yard '63 season, Faulk had 1K/1K and 28 TDs, Agamemnon pointed out LT, Chris Johnson set the yards from scrimmage mark with a crappier team than this year's vikings, etc. I'm not saying AP didn't have a fantastic season, and I'm not even saying he shouldn't get the MVP, but to say we'll never see a season like this again is being disingenuous.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:05 PM   #59
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Did you guys even watch the Viking game? After seeing that can't see how anyone could say AP is more vaulable than Ponder, let alone everyone else in the league?

Consider that when Elway went down and Brister came in, we didn't miss a beat. TD going down instead of Elway would have been a bigger loss at the time. Look at what happened with basically the same team in '99 when TD got hurt. I believe that season was the first ever when a SB champion didn't even make the playoffs the following year. That was how valuable TD was to Denver and is the kind of impact that AP doesn't have for Minnesota, they weren't even close to matching GB without Ponder.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:16 PM   #60
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People seem to forget how Manning was actually talked about in circles last year to receive the MVP.. for not playing a single game! Because it became obvious just how valuable he was, once he was out.

In Denver, he added value not only to the offense, but to the defense and special teams as well. AP added value to.. the offense. That's about it. QBs often are most valuable for a reason. They add the most value to the team. Manning adds amazing value to our team. So unless most VALUABLE player means something else (like.. most amazing offensive player), it should be Peyton, hands down.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:21 PM   #61
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People seem to forget how Manning was actually talked about in circles last year to receive the MVP.. for not playing a single game! Because it became obvious just how valuable he was, once he was out.

In Denver, he added value not only to the offense, but to the defense and special teams as well. AP added value to.. the offense. That's about it. QBs often are most valuable for a reason. They add the most value to the team. Manning adds amazing value to our team. So unless most VALUABLE player means something else (like.. most amazing offensive player), it should be Peyton, hands down.
Calvin Johnson was the most amazing offensive player this year in my opinion. Of course just like Peterson he didn't score a lot of TDs.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:26 PM   #62
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I think folks are getting far too fixated on 2000 yard rushers. There have now been 7.

1973 O.J. Simpson
1984 Eric Dickerson
1997 Barry Sanders
1998 Terrell Davis
2003 Jamal Lewis
2009 Chris Johnson
2012 Adrian Petersen

Notice something: There was 11 years between the first two and then 13 years between the next two. Since 1997, however, there have been 5 (one 33.33..% of the time).

So it's an impressive feat, but it is far less rare than it had been. The reason is simple: There is no easier time in NFL history than today for a running back to put up big yards. Teams are built to put pressure on quarterbacks and defend receivers and (more recently) tight-ends in pass-first offenses.

Dickersons record is going to fall and it's going to happen soon. QB-poor offenses like the Vikings and Chiefs are instead turning to running backs to fill the gap in their offense. They rack up huge yards because teams simply don't have those big interior tackles and edge-setting ends anymore. It's the era of disruptive tackles and feather-weight speed rushers around the edge. It's going to be much easier to put up yards.

AP's achievement is being viewed against Dickerson, but it shouldn't be. Dickerson did it during a time in the NFL in which every team ran the ball and defenses were built to stop it. That he put up those yard is mind-boggling.

AP's year is impressive, but hardly automatically makes you an MVP.

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Old 01-06-2013, 09:31 PM   #63
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I think folks are getting far too fixated on 2000 yard rushers. There have now been 7.

1973 O.J. Simpson
1984 Eric Dickerson
1997 Barry Sanders
1998 Terrell Davis
2003 Jamal Lewis
2009 Chris Johnson
2012 Adrian Petersen

Notice something: There was 11 years between the first two and then 13 years between the next two. Since 1997, however, there have been 5 (one 33.33..% of the time).

So it's an impressive feat, but it is far less rare than it had been. The reason is simple: There is no easier time in NFL history than today for a running back to put up big yards. Teams are built to put pressure on quarterbacks and defend receivers and (more recently) tight-ends in pass-first offenses.

Dickersons record is going to fall and it's going to happen soon. QB-poor offenses like the Vikings and Chiefs are instead turning to running backs to fill the gap in their offense. They rack up huge yards because teams simply don't have those big interior tackles and edge-setting ends anymore. It's the era of disruptive tackles and feather-weight speed rushers around the edge. It's going to be much easier to put up yards.

AP's achievement is being viewed against Dickerson, but it shouldn't be. It's impressive, but hardly automatically makes you an MVP.
I would tend to agree with your overall point, but I don't necessarily think Dickerson's record is going to fall any time soon. Peterson is almost certainly going to drop-off after this season (as 2000 yard rushers always do), and I just don't see anyone else having a realistic shot at it right now.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:42 PM   #64
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Shaun Alexander's 2005 season was better then AP's season this year.
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:25 AM   #65
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Manning Nominated for FedEx Air Player of the Year


On Monday, quarterback Peyton Manning received his first yearly award nomination. He is one of three finalists for the FedEx Air NFL Player of the Year.
Fans can vote for one player in each category on NFL.com/FedEx until Friday, January 25 at 7 pm MT to determine the FedEx Air & Ground NFL Players of the Year.
Manning was nominated for FedEx’s weekly award five times in 2012, including nominations in Weeks 16 and 17, and won the award in Week 17. He also took home conference player of the week awards in Weeks 6 and 17 and conference player of the month awards for October and December.
The nomination comes after Manning broke franchise records in nearly every single-season passing category during his first year as a Bronco.

The quarterback finished with 4,659 yards on 400-of-583 passing with 37 touchdowns and just 11 interceptions. His team records were in touchdown passes, completions, passing yards and completion percentage (68.6). His season passer rating of 105.9 was also a team record.

He also earned his 12th career Pro Bowl selection, the most by a quarterback in NFL history while becoming the first signal-caller to be selected to the squad after missing the previous season due to injury. He is also the 14th player in league annals (and the only quarterback) to make 10 consecutive Pro Bowls in years he played.

Manning led the team to 11 straight wins en route to a 13-3 regular-season record as the Broncos earned the No. 1 seed the AFC playoffs.

Patriots quarterback Tom Brady and Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers are the other finalists for the award.

During the week leading up to Super Bowl XLVII, FedEx plans to announce the 2012 FedEx Air & Ground NFL Players of the Year in New Orleans, as well as make a $25,000 donation in each winning player’s name to Junior Achievement offices in the their city. The funding is used to help U.S. small business development, by educating the next generation of entrepreneurs on how to start and grow their own businesses.
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Old 01-07-2013, 06:34 PM   #66
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I would tend to agree with your overall point, but I don't necessarily think Dickerson's record is going to fall any time soon. Peterson is almost certainly going to drop-off after this season (as 2000 yard rushers always do), and I just don't see anyone else having a realistic shot at it right now.
Agree. Dont think that record is going to fall anytime soon.

1984 was also the year Dan Marino had 5,084 passing yards and Neil friggin Lomax had over 4600. Not as pass happy as today but there were 3 or 4 QB's with over 4,000 yards.
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