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Old 01-01-2013, 01:29 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
I liked the new Star Trek. I'm a Treker. I favored the next generation with Picard and company. The original series is really old and hasn't aged well. I had problems with the reboot, but they were the plot holes, not the portrayals of their characters. I actually liked how the Kirk and Spock styles clashed. That's something TOS didn't do enough of. I don't think Abrams tells very good stories, but he's a good story teller and puts on a good show. I enjoyed Star Trek and hope to enjoy this one.
The plots of the TOS are very comparable to those of NG, the limits are the effects. Have you seen the TOS Bluerays that have updated effects? I think the best TOS episodes are better than the best NG ones and I like NG but watching Dr Crusher and Deanna Troi make me feel the way I feel when listening to NASA loops with Gene on them.

To me TOS is the main course and NG is the desert. I would like to rewatch DS9 and Voyager, I didn't like DS9 at the time and don't remember much other than 7 of 9 from Voyager.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:33 PM   #27
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Benedict Cumberbatch is playing Smaug in the Hobbit as well. This dude is about to become one of the bigger actors in Hollywood. Good for him I say, the guy can act.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:42 PM   #28
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The new Star Trek is about being more original then other reboots. The new villian will not be Khan.
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:44 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
I liked the new Star Trek. I'm a Treker. I favored the next generation with Picard and company. The original series is really old and hasn't aged well. I had problems with the reboot, but they were the plot holes, not the portrayals of their characters. I actually liked how the Kirk and Spock styles clashed. That's something TOS didn't do enough of. I don't think Abrams tells very good stories, but he's a good story teller and puts on a good show. I enjoyed Star Trek and hope to enjoy this one.
Can you clarify this? It's not like you to openly contradict yourself in the same sentence

As for the New Star Trek, I have yet to see the last one. Kids and priorities and all. I guess I'll have to see it to get an opinion.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:19 PM   #30
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Can you clarify this? It's not like you to openly contradict yourself in the same sentence

As for the New Star Trek, I have yet to see the last one. Kids and priorities and all. I guess I'll have to see it to get an opinion.
I think he's saying Abrams is good at telling stories, he just doesn't pick great stories to tell. Like a comedian who has great timing and comedic sense, with subpar material.
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:29 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broncosteven View Post
The plots of the TOS are very comparable to those of NG, the limits are the effects. Have you seen the TOS Bluerays that have updated effects? I think the best TOS episodes are better than the best NG ones and I like NG but watching Dr Crusher and Deanna Troi make me feel the way I feel when listening to NASA loops with Gene on them.

To me TOS is the main course and NG is the desert. I would like to rewatch DS9 and Voyager, I didn't like DS9 at the time and don't remember much other than 7 of 9 from Voyager.
I have watched the entire remastered original series, yes. The new planets, ships and effects certainly help. You need to watch DS9 seasons 4-7. They are some of the best Trek work out there.
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:50 PM   #32
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I think he's saying Abrams is good at telling stories, he just doesn't pick great stories to tell. Like a comedian who has great timing and comedic sense, with subpar material.
Exactly. As a writer, Abrams is pretty crappy. His characters are forgettable, his plot points are lazy and ill-thought out and that creates massive plot holes. You can tell he "works backwards" and conceptualizes visually stunning scenes, but then tries to force them into a story afterward. His narratives are driven by action sequences.

That said, his movies are fun. The action is good. The physics (the localized ones, anyway) are realistic. His pacing is excellent, he knows how to get the right dialogue for the moment, his characters emotions are believable in the moments, and the scenes flow and escalate well. He captures comedic timing well, drama well, and action well. He's a good story teller, but his stories are kind of lame.

***Spoiler Alert***
In Star Trek, at the end of the opener we see this incredible silhouette of the Ramulan ship, damaged as the escape pods flee against a fiery background. It's powerful image.

...but how is there suddenly a fireball in this shot? It's pretty, sure, but it wasn't there before the scene started. It's not a sun, they were nowhere near one. Was it part of the nova leaking in from the future? The answer is it was pretty and looked powerful in that moment so he wanted it there.

See also:
A supernova "destroying" the galaxy - This is Star Trek. They could have thought up literally ANYTHING and we would have bought it and went with "supernova." Lazy.
Why does Spock need THAT much red matter. Apparently only a drop is needed and he has enough for the whole galaxy.
And you can't drill a hole through a planet because the mantle is liquid and it would just keep collapsing on itself.
Speaking of, why do you need to put the Red Matter in the center of the planet anyway? You could squirt some in low orbit and be on your way.
Spock watched his planet get destroyed looking up at the sky. Was that a Vulcan moon? It didn't seem like it. Yet he could see it clearly. Anything that close to Vulcan would have been consumed.

The worst thing about this is Star Trek is the play-doh of writing. You can make anything work with a little effort. The nova could be some kind of galactic storm. The red matter could be only reactive in areas of high gravity and mass, etc. One sentence or a word change would have explained this stuff.

That said, I enjoyed the movie. It was good.

Last edited by Kaylore; 01-01-2013 at 07:54 PM..
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:58 PM   #33
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He's not playing Khan.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:02 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
Exactly. As a writer, Abrams is pretty crappy. His characters are forgettable, his plot points are lazy and ill-thought out and that creates massive plot holes. You can tell he "works backwards" and conceptualizes visually stunning scenes, but then tries to force them into a story afterward. His narratives are driven by action sequences.

That said, his movies are fun. The action is good. The physics (the localized ones, anyway) are realistic. His pacing is excellent, he knows how to get the right dialogue for the moment, his characters emotions are believable in the moments, and the scenes flow and escalate well. He captures comedic timing well, drama well, and action well. He's a good story teller, but his stories are kind of lame.

***Spoiler Alert***
In Star Trek, at the end of the opener we see this incredible silhouette of the Ramulan ship, damaged as the escape pods flee against a fiery background. It's powerful image.

...but how is there suddenly a fireball in this shot? It's pretty, sure, but it wasn't there before the scene started. It's not a sun, they were nowhere near one. Was it part of the nova leaking in from the future? The answer is it was pretty and looked powerful in that moment so he wanted it there.

See also:
A supernova "destroying" the galaxy - This is Star Trek. They could have thought up literally ANYTHING and we would have bought it and went with "supernova." Lazy.
Why does Spock need THAT much red matter. Apparently only a drop is needed and he has enough for the whole galaxy.
And you can't drill a hole through a planet because the mantle is liquid and it would just keep collapsing on itself.
Speaking of, why do you need to put the Red Matter in the center of the planet anyway? You could squirt some in low orbit and be on your way.
Spock watched his planet get destroyed looking up at the sky. Was that a Vulcan moon? It didn't seem like it. Yet he could see it clearly. Anything that close to Vulcan would have been consumed.

The worst thing about this is Star Trek is the play-doh of writing. You can make anything work with a little effort. The nova could be some kind of galactic storm. The red matter could be only reactive in areas of high gravity and mass, etc. One sentence or a word change would have explained this stuff.

That said, I enjoyed the movie. It was good.
I enjoyed the new Star Trek, in fact I LOVED it. But my girlfriend definitely got tired of me pointing out how ridiculous most of it was. I had to stop requiring it to make sense and just enjoy the ride. I don't think they employed many scientific advisers for the movie, or if they did... they didn't listen to them very closely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
Speaking of, why do you need to put the Red Matter in the center of the planet anyway? You could squirt some in low orbit and be on your way.
Yeah, this was stupid. All they had to do was shoot a drop of it at the planet and the black hole would oscillate back and forth consuming the planet until it came to rest at the center of mass.

Last edited by Houshyamama; 01-01-2013 at 08:06 PM..
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:06 PM   #35
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The whole appeal of Spock in TOS was the conflict within as he kept his emotions at bay. In the new reboot he is strutting around tapping Uhura and showing all kinds of emotions, I was never a big Spock fan but it was a huge plot point in about every episode in one way or another it was at the least hinted at so getting that wrong destroyed any shred of respect I have for this new reboot. That and a 20 year old Kirk not even out of the Academy getting command for the flagship of the Federation made it as plausable as the movie Battleship.
^^ This. And I am half blind from the flares.

Oh and Star Trek is not an action series (which does not mean it does not contain action, but only that it is not the core). The new trek is Trek only in name.

/nerd rage
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:47 PM   #36
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Benedict Cumberbatch is playing Smaug in the Hobbit as well. This dude is about to become one of the bigger actors in Hollywood. Good for him I say, the guy can act.
BBC is churning out some quality talent. Cumberbatch and Freeman are great in Sherlock. The guy who was a vampire in Being Human (forget his name) is really good as well. Haven't seen The Hobbit, but hear he is in it as well.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:19 PM   #37
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BBC is churning out some quality talent. Cumberbatch and Freeman are great in Sherlock. The guy who was a vampire in Being Human (forget his name) is really good as well. Haven't seen The Hobbit, but hear he is in it as well.
The English acting style lends itself to a lot of what's being produced in Hollywood these days (Australians are trained the same way).
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:20 PM   #38
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Benedict Cumberbatch: Most "British" name ever!
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:00 AM   #39
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I think Kaylore is actually more infatuated with Ricardo then he is with Khan. Just admit it dude.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:18 AM   #40
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this latest star trek trailer looks like a Batman movie....
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:26 AM   #41
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:36 AM   #42
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...Star Trek is not an action series (which does not mean it does not contain action, but only that it is not the core).
Exactly.

I've pointed this out to my 8 year old son repeatedly as we contrast Star Trek with Star Wars. If I want "pew pew," I watch Star Wars. Star Trek was much more cerebral. And that's not to say I didn't enjoy the new Trek movie or will not be at the midnight showing of the new film. But I wish they'd bring back a series where they can explore the galaxy again, explore strange new worlds, seek out new life and new civilizations, and boldly go where no one has gone before.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:38 AM   #43
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Exactly.

I've pointed this out to my 8 year old son repeatedly as we contrast Star Trek with Star Wars. If I want "pew pew," I watch Star Wars. Star Trek was much more cerebral. And that's not to say I didn't enjoy the new Trek movie or will not be at the midnight showing of the new film. But I wish they'd bring back a series where they can explore the galaxy again, explore strange new worlds, seek out new life and new civilizations, and boldly go where no one has gone before.
I think that format works better in episode form on TV. As a movie, audiences are going to want more and that means more action. Even TOS movies were more heavy with action and less "thought provoking" than the episodes.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:46 AM   #44
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Nobody seems to want "cerebral", in their Star Trek movies. I'd bet that if you took a poll of Star Trek fans, the least liked movies would include "Motion Picture" and "Undiscovered Country". Both of them are very much "thinking" Star Trek movies. "Motion Picture" was, essentially, about the existence of God. "Undiscovered Country" had a very cool Sherlock Holmes-like mystery, to it...
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:00 AM   #45
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Nobody seems to want "cerebral", in their Star Trek movies. I'd bet that if you took a poll of Star Trek fans, the least liked movies would include "Motion Picture" and "Undiscovered Country". Both of them are very much "thinking" Star Trek movies. "Motion Picture" was, essentially, about the existence of God. "Undiscovered Country" had a very cool Sherlock Holmes-like mystery, to it...
I think you mean "The Final Frontier." Undiscovered country was the same director that did Wrath of Khan and had epic space battles in it.

The problems with I and V were both were bad movies that took themselves and the franchise way too seriously and had plot holes nebulous villains that didn't work. The Enterprise vs. a big cloud? God is actually an alien? A barrier at the end of the universe? Weird wormhole scene?

There were aspects that worked. I liked the humor in ST V and I think some of the elements in ST I felt like a Trek episode. But the other movies were just better movies.

ST fans like thoughtful stories. Look at the top episodes of all the series'. There are usually one or two more cerebral episodes right up there. The City on the Edge of forever is right there with balance of terror. Best of Both worlds and measuer of a Man. We like everything.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:22 AM   #46
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I think that format works better in episode form on TV. As a movie, audiences are going to want more and that means more action. Even TOS movies were more heavy with action and less "thought provoking" than the episodes.
Yep, couldn't agree more. Which is why I enjoy the movies tremendously but specifically stated in my previous post that I wish they'd do a new series and get the Trek on the right Track!
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:57 AM   #47
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I try not to look to deeply into the small details or it will just ruin it. Suspension of disbelief while watching it is what I try to do. Just sit back and enjoy it for what it is. Not that I always can do that but I try.

I thought they did a great job with the new Kirk. Spock not so much. The writing will never be that same because the original was based around Social Statements of their times. Now it's about eye candy and action sequences.

now speaking of eye candy....

***WARNING**** (star fap)
http://johneaves.files.wordpress.com...nny-trek-2.jpg

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Old 01-02-2013, 12:03 PM   #48
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I actually liked Spock better than Kirk in the new one.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:05 PM   #49
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now speaking of eye candy....

***WARNING**** (star fap)
http://johneaves.files.wordpress.com...nny-trek-2.jpg
I prefer this one:

http://www.eonline.com/photos/5910/s...-aliens/212872
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:54 PM   #50
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I'm a huge trek nerd and loved the new one. I'm a fan first of the original series. Kirk was one of my heroes as a kid. TNG - has its moments. Never cared for the others.

The new one was a "re-boot" so that gave license for revisionist history. In fact, the whole premise was playing out what Kirk and the gang were trying to avoid in City on the Edge of Forever. Changes in the past change the timeline of the future in ways that are certain yet unclear. So it is a bit ironic to me that everyone gets so mad about the changes in the re-boot when it's really just letting us go forward on the "past is altered to the future changes" ride.

Spock and his Vulcan IDIC philosophy (Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations) would also find the whole debate "fascinating", I'm sure.

As to the British actors, I'm with Tyrant and excited as hell to see Cumberbatch. He's top notch. Freeman was GREAT as Bilbo Baggins, spot on. He is very good in The Office as well.
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