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Old 12-25-2012, 12:31 AM   #101
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I've noticed an uptick in quality threads from new/lurker posters. I attribute that uptick to the Broncos actually being one of the NFL's dominant teams. You win, people want to be a part of it, discuss it and have a good time with it. When you are horrible, the fans are generally more dour and doom and gloom. Most people tend to shy away from downers like that.

As for the OP, Elvis and Von are perfect bookends. If Wolfe becomes a good to great inside rusher our pass rush will go from clownshoes strong to redonkulass hercules strong.

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Old 12-25-2012, 12:34 AM   #102
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There are a few teams that would welcome Dumervil as their #1 pass rusher, because his 59 pressures this season are more than anyone on their team. These teams are:

Patriots
Jets
Bills
Steelers
Ravens
Browns
Colts
Jaguars
Chiefs
Raiders
Chargers
Cowboys
Eagles
Giants
Packers
Lions
Bears
Falcons
Saints
Seahawks
Cardinals
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Old 12-25-2012, 01:30 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by maher_tyler View Post
I think many would like to know what exactly a special season for an individual player might be? 11 sacks, 6 forced fumbles and multiple QB pressures. All the while doing a much better job stopping the run and more times than not going up against the other teams best pass protector. If he were the only legit pass rusher we had, im sure he would have more sacks. Not to mention he'd prolly be coming from the right side. He is performing at a pro bowl level.

Merry Christmas to you as well.
First off, Merry Christmas back at ya.

Secondly, to answer your question, to some degree it's perception. But if you look back at the history of the great players in this league, we mostly have go on stats. That's what gets recorded and that's how players are ultimately judged, in the end. If you look at the great QB's in the past, you go by wins, then yards and TD's. That's how QB's are judged. Nobody accounts for the small things they do, such as leadership, and for the things that were not in their control. Let's say QB A had 3 Superbowl victories, 48,000 yards and 400 TD's and QB B had the same amount of Superbowl wins and yards but only had 350 TD's. You would think QB A was the better QB. But if you looked further into it you would see that QB B had 20 dropped TD's passes, 10 TD's called back on penalties not his fault and so on. Those are not kept stats so all you have to go on is what's there. That's why QB A would be considered better. My point is, players are ultimately judged by stats. So for a DE, pressures sure do help your team alot but sacks and tackles are what they are remembered for. Even doing simple things, like taking up 2 blockers to get another guy free, if that's what the coaches asked the player to do, that doesn't show up in the stats. A good player by the defender that helped his team but none the less, nothing in the stats to show that. So if I asked you what year was Richard Dent's best year, you're going to go look up the stats and see how many sacks he had, how many tackles, passes defended, fumbles forced and so on. You won't find pressures, you won't find he held the edge and ran to the sideline giving the RB no room to turn upfield and thus the RB ran out of bounds after a 1 yard gain on 3rd and 5. So if the season ended this last Sunday, the stats as they are, anybody NOT a Broncos fan 10 years from now would look at Dooms stats and say, that was a good season, but not a great season. They're going to want to compare the key stats with what's considered the norm for a great year by a DE. They'll be looking for 16-20 sacks. They won't be looking at the fact Doom held the edge and forced that fast RB inside to the awaiting LB's who got the tackle. So in the end, it's all perception, to some degree.

It's good to debate this but ultimately I'm happy the Broncos are awesome again, playing very good football, winning a ton of games, and have a lagit shot at winning another Superbowl. I'm so ready for that.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:12 AM   #104
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First off, Merry Christmas back at ya.

Secondly, to answer your question, to some degree it's perception. But if you look back at the history of the great players in this league, we mostly have go on stats. That's what gets recorded and that's how players are ultimately judged, in the end. If you look at the great QB's in the past, you go by wins, then yards and TD's. That's how QB's are judged. Nobody accounts for the small things they do, such as leadership, and for the things that were not in their control. Let's say QB A had 3 Superbowl victories, 48,000 yards and 400 TD's and QB B had the same amount of Superbowl wins and yards but only had 350 TD's. You would think QB A was the better QB. But if you looked further into it you would see that QB B had 20 dropped TD's passes, 10 TD's called back on penalties not his fault and so on. Those are not kept stats so all you have to go on is what's there. That's why QB A would be considered better. My point is, players are ultimately judged by stats. So for a DE, pressures sure do help your team alot but sacks and tackles are what they are remembered for. Even doing simple things, like taking up 2 blockers to get another guy free, if that's what the coaches asked the player to do, that doesn't show up in the stats. A good player by the defender that helped his team but none the less, nothing in the stats to show that. So if I asked you what year was Richard Dent's best year, you're going to go look up the stats and see how many sacks he had, how many tackles, passes defended, fumbles forced and so on. You won't find pressures, you won't find he held the edge and ran to the sideline giving the RB no room to turn upfield and thus the RB ran out of bounds after a 1 yard gain on 3rd and 5. So if the season ended this last Sunday, the stats as they are, anybody NOT a Broncos fan 10 years from now would look at Dooms stats and say, that was a good season, but not a great season. They're going to want to compare the key stats with what's considered the norm for a great year by a DE. They'll be looking for 16-20 sacks. They won't be looking at the fact Doom held the edge and forced that fast RB inside to the awaiting LB's who got the tackle. So in the end, it's all perception, to some degree.

It's good to debate this but ultimately I'm happy the Broncos are awesome again, playing very good football, winning a ton of games, and have a lagit shot at winning another Superbowl. I'm so ready for that.
No matter how you look at it, you are wrong. Can imagine sitting across from John Elway, being in a serious discussion, and saying that Dumervil is not that good? Can you imagine telling him you don't think that Dumervil is having that great of a season? What do you think his reaction would be.

Now in regards to your complete jibberish and garbage of a post...it has got to be one of the most insanely, idiotic things... well this guy can say it better than me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0


Last edited by Action; 12-25-2012 at 02:14 AM..
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:16 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by MagicHef View Post
There are a few teams that would welcome Dumervil as their #1 pass rusher, because his 59 pressures this season are more than anyone on their team. These teams are:

Patriots
Jets
Bills
Steelers
Ravens
Browns
Colts
Jaguars
Chiefs
Raiders
Chargers
Cowboys
Eagles
Giants
Packers
Lions
Bears
Falcons
Saints
Seahawks
Cardinals
Yeah...thats 21 teams or 66% of the teams of the league.

This further lays out the evidence than Zona is a complete ______________.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:58 AM   #106
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Doom has been good, not special but good. If you're on the team primarily because you're a "sack specialist" then you probably better have something like 14-16 sacks on the season. Don't think his play deserved a praise thread though. He hasn't been that good.
Come on ... You know how many guys get 14-16 sacks in a season? Maybe 3 or 4 a year on average ... 16 sacks are enough to lead the league sometimes.

Great thread. Elvis has somehow become under-appreciated, how is that possible? This season looks like his 3rd straight Pro Bowl (minus injury year). Elvis led the Broncos in sacks 4 straight years starting as a rookie, then hurt in 2010, Von in 2011. Like I always say, you're either born to sack or you're not ... and he was born to.

Yeah, but what has he done for us lately, right?
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Old 12-25-2012, 03:03 AM   #107
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Just checked the numbers, and it appears that Charles Johnson of the Panthers leads the league with 7 Forced Fumbles, and Elvis Dumervil is tied for #2 with John Abraham and .......... Von Miller!

We're lucky we locked him up long term before his agent started shopping him to 3-4 teams ... he might've set a record free agent contract.
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Old 12-25-2012, 06:40 AM   #108
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Zona reminds of that dad who is never pleased with their kid. Getting into Yale is ok, but Harvard is better. Everyone here giving Zona an overly hard time with his assessment is working out repressed daddy issues.
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Old 12-25-2012, 08:17 AM   #109
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Just checked the numbers, and it appears that Charles Johnson of the Panthers leads the league with 7 Forced Fumbles, and Elvis Dumervil is tied for #2 with John Abraham and .......... Von Miller!

We're lucky we locked him up long term before his agent started shopping him to 3-4 teams ... he might've set a record free agent contract.
You must be talking about DL and LB because I know Charles Tillman leads league in forced fumbles. I think hr tied or has the single season record with 10.
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Old 12-25-2012, 08:40 AM   #110
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We have to remember that a few sacks have been taken from Doom from Miller's ridiculous speed off if the edge.
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Old 12-25-2012, 08:46 AM   #111
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I remember a time around here when we were all fans of the same team and we acted like it. We would discuss our Broncos, have friendly disagreements and joke with one another.It was fun to come here. What happened to that place? I see people here saying things to one another they would never say to someone's face. Have people become so fearful and frustrated that they have to say vile things to one another on a message board because there is no fear of reprise. Really what is it? What happened?



Let he that has no sin cast the first stone......

The difference is clowns put certain players before the team.....and when that player is ripped or criticized, it causes an irrational emotional response by the one who likes/loves said player.

For instance, we had one poster on here actually call this team classless, and said "F the Broncos", that he was through with them all because he was butt hurt that Tim Tebow might be traded after we signed Peyton Manning.
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Old 12-25-2012, 09:01 AM   #112
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All the good posters being driven away is a pretty big myth.
One still perpetuated by pretty much only Baja.
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Old 12-25-2012, 09:04 AM   #113
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You must be talking about DL and LB because I know Charles Tillman leads league in forced fumbles. I think hr tied or has the single season record with 10.
Sorry, that's why I said "it appears," thought maybe I was missing somebody.

NFL.com's stats have a new geometric display I cpuldn't figure out. Tillman didn't pop up for me because he's not in the top 50 sack leaders where I started. Anyway, here's the correct list:


2 guys in the top 5 looks great, but it hasn't helped us much ... couple weeks ago there was a thread detailing how "unlucky" the Broncos are because we recover the lowest % or near the lowest % of fumbles.
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:39 AM   #114
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! First you need to start with yourself before expecting others to do the same.
One starts with one foot in front of the other. I've started my journey.

I know that many are doomed forever to be, well less than stellar human beings.

Those I can not help other than ignore their childish posts with the IGGY function.

Now how about you, what are you going to do about making this a better place to spend time?
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:43 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81 View Post
I've noticed an uptick in quality threads from new/lurker posters. I attribute that uptick to the Broncos actually being one of the NFL's dominant teams. You win, people want to be a part of it, discuss it and have a good time with it. When you are horrible, the fans are generally more dour and doom and gloom. Most people tend to shy away from downers like that.

As for the OP, Elvis and Von are perfect bookends. If Wolfe becomes a good to great inside rusher our pass rush will go from clownshoes strong to redonkulass hercules strong.

I'm not sure Wolfe has to be great. Just relentless and stop the run consistently while pushing the OL back into the pocket just bit. . Enough to stop the QB from stepping up into it away from Von/Doom.

Getting another guy like him would really help in rotational situations.
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:51 AM   #116
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Yeah...thats 21 teams or 66% of the teams of the league.

This further lays out the evidence than Zona is a complete ______________.
There you go, way to remain classless on Christmas day newbie. Even when somebody uses apologies and tries to take things in a nicer direction, you have guys like yourself that just can't seem to go along. Great work, I'm sure you'll be a lovely addition to this board.

Last edited by ZONA; 12-25-2012 at 10:53 AM..
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:42 AM   #117
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One starts with one foot in front of the other. I've started my journey.

I know that many are doomed forever to be, well less than stellar human beings.

Those I can not help other than ignore their childish posts with the IGGY function.

Now how about you, what are you going to do about making this a better place to spend time?
You continue to put down others in attempt to elevate yourself above them. If you really wanted to actually change and be a grown up and a good Christian, you would apologize to everyone you have pissed on here. Except you aren't a man or adult enough to do that. Never will be.
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:49 AM   #118
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Doom has been good, not special but good. He has improved his run defense but not enough. If you're on the team primarily because you're a "sack specialist" then you probably better have something like 14-16 sacks on the season. Don't think his play deserved a praise thread though. He hasn't been that good.
In today's pass happy NFL, this is inaccurate. A guy who can get to the QB 11+ times consistantly and be passable in the running game will always be in demand. 14 -16 sacks is great on anybodies scale. I actually think his play against the run has improved even though it won't get him a pro bowl.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:15 AM   #119
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I would like to point out this thread is 5 pages long, which proves it in fact was "worth creating a thread about" since it has drawn a lot of people and created a lively discussion.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:44 AM   #120
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I remember a time around here when we were all fans of the same team and we acted like it. We would discuss our Broncos, have friendly disagreements and joke with one another.It was fun to come here. What happened to that place? I see people here saying things to one another they would never say to someone's face. Have people become so fearful and frustrated that they have to say vile things to one another on a message board because there is no fear of reprise. Really what is it? What happened?
Shanahan got fired. It's been a cluster**** ever since. It's kept me away.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:46 AM   #121
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I would like to point out this thread is 5 pages long, which proves it in fact was "worth creating a thread about" since it has drawn a lot of people and created a lively discussion.
By this standard, Hillis is insanely valuable.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:05 AM   #122
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Let he that has no sin cast the first stone......

The difference is clowns put certain players before the team.....and when that player is ripped or criticized, it causes an irrational emotional response by the one who likes/loves said player.

For instance, we had one poster on here actually call this team classless, and said "F the Broncos", that he was through with them all because he was butt hurt that Tim Tebow might be traded after we signed Peyton Manning.
Win.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:09 AM   #123
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By this standard, Hillis is insanely valuable.
go_denethor thinks so.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:12 AM   #124
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By this standard, Hillis is insanely valuable.
Those were the days... all the good threads on this board are gone now.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:13 AM   #125
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Those were the days... all the good threads on this board are gone now.
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