Richard Nixon: Genocidial Warmonger and President

[SoCalBronco]

You are making the classic mistake of holding firm to form over substance. Hundreds of years of caselaw is to the contrary. Congress authorized the POTUS wide authority to conduct military operations in ALL of SE Asia not just Vietnam, whatever you want to call it (a declaration of war, or just a check to conduct operations), it was given. There is no magic language required anywhere. He's got the authority and is acting pursuant to it. There's no constitutional argument anymore. It's been waived. You can't say "well I didn't specifically say war, so even though we're authorizing billions of dollars for fighting every single year, we didn't actually say war, so get out" Are you for real? Congress ceded its authority and used liberal language and the Youngstown case has become the leading case on this subject. When the POTUS acts pursuant to express or implied aux of Congress, his aux is at its greatest. There's no more constitutional argument. It's over. It's waived, its done. Your problem is with the Congress, not the executive.

[Obushma]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

You are making the classic mistake of holding firm to form over substance. Hundreds of years of caselaw is to the contrary. Congress authorized the POTUS wide authority to conduct military operations in ALL of SE Asia not just Vietnam, whatever you want to call it (a declaration of war, or just a check to conduct operations), it was given. There is no magic language required anywhere. He's got the authority and is acting pursuant to it. There's no constitutional argument anymore. It's been waived. You can't say "well I didn't specifically say war, so even though we're authorizing billions of dollars for fighting every single year, we didn't actually say war, so get out" Are you for real? Congress ceded its authority and used liberal language and the Youngstown case has become the leading case on this subject. When the POTUS acts pursuant to express or implied aux of Congress, his aux is at its greatest. There's no more constitutional argument. It's over. It's waived, its done. Your problem is with the Congress, not the executive.

No Mike, my problem is with sick ****s like you who think the genocide of 600,000 people, is good politik because it serves American interests. It's sick ****s like you who cite the Gulf of Tonkin false flag, as a justifiable reason to murder 600,000 human beings. It's sick ****s like you, who know 9-11 was blowback, but tried to tell us "they hate us for our freedoms", so your ****ing chickenhawk idols, could make $ off a war in Iraq.

I promise you, if there is a hell, Hitler will be ****ing you in the ass Mike.

[SoCalBronco]

You're a real piece of work, dude.

That's all. I'm done. I'm not going to argue with you, anymore. Hitler is going to be ****ing me in the ass in hell? Great counterargument there, man.

[Obushma]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

You're a real piece of work, dude.

That's all. I'm done. I'm not going to argue with you, anymore. Hitler is going to be ****ing me in the ass in hell? Great counterargument there, man.

I dont know how else to explain you justifing the genocide of 600,000 people, it's ****ing sick, satanic even.

If there is a hell, you're going their Mike.

[Obushma]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

You are making the classic mistake of holding firm to form over substance. Hundreds of years of caselaw is to the contrary. Congress authorized the POTUS wide authority to conduct military operations in ALL of SE Asia not just Vietnam, whatever you want to call it (a declaration of war, or just a check to conduct operations), it was given.

You are so full of ****. The logs of the pilots who droped those bombs were changed and doctored, the pilots were sworn to secrecy not to tell their supervisors. Nobody, including top brass, even knew what was going on in Cambodia. It wasn't until the top secret files were released in a Freedom of Information Act request, that people even knew of the genocide committed.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by Obushma

I dont know how else to explain you justifing the genocide of 600,000 people, it's ****ing sick, satanic even.

If there is a hell, you're going their Mike.

A libertarian speaking on morality. Woo!

[Arkie]

Nixon was a gifted politician with moral issues. Just like Cutler is a gifted athlete with character flaws, or like Miami is a successful program with a thug image. Socal likes to see the greatness in others when they're overshadowed by a negative image.

[mhgaffney]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

Ofcourse it was a covert action...yet that hardly makes it illegal, even without the declaration of a war. The language of the Gulf of Tonkin resolution gave the President wide authority not just in Vietnam, but in Southeast Asia. Considering the communists were using bases in Cambodia to launch campaigns and then to retreat back across the border, I have no problem with the US attacking them there in 1970 to try and clear it out, especially given that we had been given the OK by the sovereign at the time.

The only thing worse than a stupid American is a stupid American on steroids.

Of course it was illegal. As we know, the Gulf of Tonkin resolution was the result of an attack that never happened. There was no incident. It was a lie -- made up by the CIA -- who deceived LBJ.

Here is Ray McGovern's analysis about how the CIA lied to LBJ.
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2008/011108a.html

By the way, this overthrows the prevalent but incorrect belief that the CIA was created to provide intel to the president. If that was the purpose - then why did the CIA deceive LBJ?

This case -- and a lot of other evidence -- supports the view that the CIA was created to look after the interests of Wall Street. The CIA started the Viet Nam war in the 1950s -= and ran it until the major troop build up that happened in 1965 -- a direct result of the Tonkin "incident."

Wall Street wanted the Viet Nam war -- because a small group of investment bankers profited immensely. Everyone else lost. The US military killed millions of people and destroyed one of the most important rainforests on the planet -- all paid for by the US taxpayer.

And -- given what is happening today -- we failed to learn our lesson.

[Fedaykin]

Wow, someone has a burr up their ass. Isn't there a policy against threads created solely to call someone out?

[Cito Pelon]

For the hell of it since we're talking geopolitics, let's look at the USA's involvement with Iran.

http://ivl.8m.com/USMI.htm

Arms sales

Iran under the Shah was America’s number one arms customer, accounting for $18.1 billion or 25 per cent of the $71 billion in military orders placed by foreign governments under the Foreign Military Sales program between FY 1950 and FY 1977. Recent sales included 141 Northrop F-SE jet fighters, 160 Hughes TOW missiles. During a May 1972 visit to Iran by the then President Nixon, the Shah was given a virtual carte blanche to purchase anything in the US arsenal except nuclear weapons. Subsequent Iranian purchases reflected the Shah’s ambition to recreate ‘the Great Persian Empire of the Past’, as well as the Nixon-Kissinger policy of relying on ‘friendly’ Third World powers to maintain regional stability in strategic areas. Iranian military purchases rose from $519 million in FY 1972 to a record high for any country of $5.8 billion in FY 1977.

Since his 1972 meeting with Nixon, the Shah consistently sought America’s most advanced and sophisticated weapons. Among his recent purchases are seven Boeing E-3A AWACS (Airborne Warning and Control System) radar patrol planes, a system so sophisticated that CIA director Admiral Stansfield Turner originally testified against its sale on the grounds that US security would be gravely threatened if it fell into the wrong hands. Other advanced arms sold to the Iranians include the Grumman F-14 Tomcat swing-wing jet fighter, the McDonnell-Douglas Harpoon anti-ship missile, the Lockheed P-3C Orion ocean surveillance plane, and the Spruance-class heavy destroyer. Besides these potent arms, the United States also endowed Iran with the capacity to conduct warfare far from its borders. Recent deliveries have included, for instance, twelve Lockheed C-130 Hercules troop-transport planes, thirteen Boeing 707-320L tanker aircraft, 142 McDonnell-Douglas F-4E Phantom deep-strike fighter-bombers and three Tang-class submarines (which cannot even operate in the shallow Persian Gulf). These deliveries have provided Iran with a formidable military arsenal, capable of sustaining conflict at very high levels of violence and at sites far distant from Iranian territorV,[3]

That was a review of the post-Iranian Revolution. Anybody seen the movie Argo? That was a pretty cool movie. Argo **** yourself.

EDIT: Actually that article was written prior to the Iranian Revolution. Jimmy Carter poured a lot of arms into the Shah's iran.

[mhgaffney]

[QUOTE=Cito Pelon;3764490]For the hell of it since we're talking geopolitics, let's look at the USA's involvement with Iran.

http://ivl.8m.com/USMI.htm

Arms sales

Iran under the Shah was America’s number one arms customer, accounting for $18.1 billion or 25 per cent of the $71 billion in military orders placed by foreign governments under the Foreign Military Sales program between FY 1950 and FY 1977. Recent sales included 141 Northrop F-SE jet fighters, 160 Hughes TOW missiles. During a May 1972 visit to Iran by the then President Nixon, the Shah was given a virtual carte blanche to purchase anything in the US arsenal except nuclear weapons. Subsequent Iranian purchases reflected the Shah’s ambition to recreate ‘the Great Persian Empire of the Past’, as well as the Nixon-Kissinger policy of relying on ‘friendly’ Third World powers to maintain regional stability in strategic areas. Iranian military purchases rose from $519 million in FY 1972 to a record high for any country of $5.8 billion in FY 1977.

Since his 1972 meeting with Nixon, the Shah consistently sought America’s most advanced and sophisticated weapons. Among his recent purchases are seven Boeing E-3A AWACS (Airborne Warning and Control System) radar patrol planes, a system so sophisticated that CIA director Admiral Stansfield Turner originally testified against its sale on the grounds that US security would be gravely threatened if it fell into the wrong hands. Other advanced arms sold to the Iranians include the Grumman F-14 Tomcat swing-wing jet fighter, the McDonnell-Douglas Harpoon anti-ship missile, the Lockheed P-3C Orion ocean surveillance plane, and the Spruance-class heavy destroyer. Besides these potent arms, the United States also endowed Iran with the capacity to conduct warfare far from its borders. Recent deliveries have included, for instance, twelve Lockheed C-130 Hercules troop-transport planes, thirteen Boeing 707-320L tanker aircraft, 142 McDonnell-Douglas F-4E Phantom deep-strike fighter-bombers and three Tang-class submarines (which cannot even operate in the shallow Persian Gulf). These deliveries have provided Iran with a formidable military arsenal, capable of sustaining conflict at very high levels of violence and at sites far distant from Iranian territorV,[3]

That was a review of the post-Iranian Revolution. Anybody seen the movie Argo? That was a pretty cool movie. Argo **** yourself.

EDIT: Actually that article was written prior to the Iranian Revolution. Jimmy Carter poured a lot of arms into the Shah's iran.[/QUOTE]

Carter inherited a failed Iran policy -- and should have completely overhauled it. But, of course, it never happened -- and this failed policy wrecked his presidency.

[Cito Pelon]

The Iranian Revolution was a bigtime ****up all across the board. I was in the Army at the time, we had a HF radio shot to our Army base outside Mehrabad and I talked to those guys all the time. Prior to the Shah's flying to the USA our Army communications base there was ringed by protestors and ringed by Iranian Army tanks protecting the base. The Iranian Army machine-gunned the protesters. True story. Imagine what happened to those poor slobs in the Iranian Army following orders to machinegun their own people.

Our Army guys were in bad shape at that point, there was only a few hundred of them, the civilian contractors all bailed as fast as they could. We had two satellite shots into that base, one from Andrews AFB in Maryland, and one from my base in Germany, but both had to go through the Iranian telephone company, they weren't under US military control. Both satellite shots were cut by the Iranian telephone company prior to the Shah's defection.

Those poor slobs at our Army base had one communication avenue to the rest of the world, an HF shot to Germany. We did airlift a portable satellite comm station to them before the Shah was deposed, did it on the first try, they were very relieved to have that, it was a nice operation. I don't know where the Air Force flew from, but they flew into Iran and dropped that field satellite station right on the money into our Army base. They immediately set up a satellite link to Andrews AFB.

Those Army personnel actually had to stay there after the Shah was deposed, the Ayatollah let them leave unscathed after he took control of Iran. That was before the Embassy takeover. I figure this is declassified now so I can talk about it.

[Arkie]

^ It's all blowback from our foreign policy beginning in 1953 with the CIA replacing Iran's democracy with a more "US friendly" dictator.

[Cito Pelon]

I have a good story about Jimmy Carter's visit to Poland in 1977, but I think that is definitely still classified, or maybe just redacted from the official papers. Too bad for you guys, it's a good story. Until I see it from another source I'm not gonna tell it. I googled it looking for the story, but nothing.

[Cito Pelon]

The Air Force flew a lot of missions into Iran in that crisis period before the Shah was deposed. They airlifted all the supplies to our Army base, food, fuel, everything. They must have had massive fighter support to protect those transport planes.

[IHaveALight]

Genocide is genocide. Who the hell argues that killing 600,000 people is justifiable because of our special interests?

[barryr]

Originally Posted by Cito Pelon

I have a good story about Jimmy Carter's visit to Poland in 1977, but I think that is definitely still classified, or maybe just redacted from the official papers. Too bad for you guys, it's a good story. Until I see it from another source I'm not gonna tell it. I googled it looking for the story, but nothing.

I googled and I found a story about Carter's translator while giving a speech botching some translations and making Carter sound like he said some embarrassing things. Is this what you mean or there's even more?

http://www.time.com/time/specials/pa...880227,00.html