Ok, so let's analyze this one - Page 2 - The Orange Mane

Rabb · 12-03-2012, 10:18 AM

It isn't a classless organization, it's more a reflection on the head coach. It's cheap, gimmicky "look at how tough my team is" crap and it's going to result in an injury and subsequent rule change.

What pisses me off more than anything is, the penalty Von took (thanks Brady) in comparison to crap like this.

WolfpackGuy · 12-03-2012, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic

I think they need to concentrate more on how to prevent victory formations from happening, instead of how to blow up a victory formation.

Yeah, really.

We were hoping to see someone take off down the field and have Manning hit them with a bomb.

jmz313 · 12-03-2012, 10:20 AM

Just line up in a normal formation and kneel it out. they are playing to the end, do the same. if they don't line up on WR, complete the pass.

Rock Chalk · 12-03-2012, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic

I've never seen it done other than TB.

Rutgers did it all the time under Schiano.

fdf · 12-03-2012, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enjolras

I can't be the only one who has absolutely no problem with this. It very nearly worked against the Giants and it gives them at least a shot to win the game. It ain't over until the clock hits zero after all. I never understood why you just have to accept the outcome when the other team takes a knee.

I agree. If they force a fumble, recover and run it back, all it takes is a two point conversion to tie the game. The game isn't over. Why should they quit?

Rock Chalk · 12-03-2012, 10:23 AM

Is this really any different than in basketball teams fouling at the end of the game despite the fact that they are down 3+ scores?

No.

I dont agree with it, but I dont get outraged by it either. There is time on the clock, you keep playing. I always thought the "Victory" formation was stupid anyway. Run a ****ing play pussies.

ColoradoDarin · 12-03-2012, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock Chalk

Is this really any different than in basketball teams fouling at the end of the game despite the fact that they are down 3+ scores?

No.

I dont agree with it, but I dont get outraged by it either. There is time on the clock, you keep playing. I always thought the "Victory" formation was stupid anyway. Run a ****ing play pussies.

It is a play, it's QB rush for -1 yards.

Rock Chalk · 12-03-2012, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColoradoDarin

It is a play, it's QB rush for -1 yards.

Fair enough.

Its a play. And the other team trying to go for a strip is a play.

WTF is the problem?

Beantown Bronco · 12-03-2012, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock Chalk

Fair enough.

Its a play. And the other team trying to go for a strip is a play.

WTF is the problem?

If we want to be technical, we could argue that they're going after the QBs knees, which is illegal. That's exactly what happened to Eli.

Dr. Broncenstein · 12-03-2012, 10:34 AM

Why not kneel down from pistol or shotgun formation? Seems like an easy fix to me, plus it makes them look like a bunch of d!cks.

ColoradoDarin · 12-03-2012, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock Chalk

Fair enough.

Its a play. And the other team trying to go for a strip is a play.

WTF is the problem?

And the NFL instituted a rule that the D couldn't line up over the C on extra points because of player safety. Someone is going to get a knee torn up over this and it will never result in a turnover.

55CrushEm · 12-03-2012, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Broncenstein

Why not kneel down from pistol or shotgun formation? Seems like an easy fix to me, plus it makes them look like a bunch of d!cks.

Exactly. Kneel from the shotgun. Does it matter if the play goes for minus-1 yard, or for minus-7, if all you're doing is killing clock?

gyldenlove · 12-03-2012, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Broncenstein

Why not kneel down from pistol or shotgun formation? Seems like an easy fix to me, plus it makes them look like a bunch of d!cks.

Just have all your blockers do cut blocks, see how many knees you can blow out.... I bet they will stop doing it if they lose someone to a torn ACL every time they try.

teknic · 12-03-2012, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronco Boy

They were trying to win the game. I don't see anything wrong with it.

The problem is that a scrum like that with the lineman has a very high probability for unnecessary injuries. The game is over, stop being a sore loser and taking cheap shots at players.

Let's be real, the chance of a fumble is negligible. It has never happened in the history of the NFL. The very small chance at causing a fumble is not worth risking injuries and looking like a douchebag in the process.

Play2win · 12-03-2012, 10:42 AM

Tampa is Thug-central. No surprise there. And their football team is pretty low-class, too.

It would have been hilarious to see a TE slip out, and Manning hit him for a wide open TD.

Kaylore · 12-03-2012, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock Chalk

Is this really any different than in basketball teams fouling at the end of the game despite the fact that they are down 3+ scores?

No.

I dont agree with it, but I dont get outraged by it either. There is time on the clock, you keep playing. I always thought the "Victory" formation was stupid anyway. Run a ****ing play pussies.

This is how I view it. I think the kneel down is ghey. The players play to the whistle. I don't think it's going to ever accomplish anything, but their coach is a big reason the Buccs have turned things around and finishing is something he's put a lot of emphasis on this season.

I actually thought the coach was pretty cool. He spoke with Manning saying he wasn't trying to hurt him and I liked the way he slapped Manning on the helmet during the game when he converted that third down where he basically spiked the ball at Moreno and Moreno caught it. I've never seen an opposing coach do that. And Manning has never had it happen.

That said, I would re-think it. All you're going to do is hurt someone. So it's not worth it, IMO and it pisses a lot of tightly wound coaches off. Fox was kind of "whatever" about it. Coughlin went all "how DARE you, sir!." I would re-think it. It doesn't bother me, but it's probably something that isn't worth the reputation that comes with it and it's barely affecting the game.

Play2win · 12-03-2012, 10:51 AM

Guess what? The modern NFL is ghey...

If they are going to keep the "giving up on a play" QB slide,

Then the NFL should put a rule in for the "giving up on a play" Kneel down.

underrated29 · 12-03-2012, 10:52 AM

I have no problem with it. There is nothing wrong there and it is no more gimmicky or worse then when a team does a random onside kick- aka saints superbowl....yeah. Same thing.

I am sure that if we were in the playoffs against he pats that you guys would not mind us trying it and getting the ball and tying the game or winning. Like everyone has said before, you play til the whistle. Well guess what, you play til the clock strikes 0:00.

Did you see how careful manning had to be to do this? Nerves easily could have had him drop the ball or miss the snap. Plus, in college this has worked a few times. This is a mans sport and top of the line, if you want to win easy watch a different sport. As for me, there is nothing wrong with it.

I would agree it would be nice to see us send a TE or WR out and let them burn those chumps for an easy score to rub it in, but from their side of things I completely get it.

Beantown Bronco · 12-03-2012, 10:54 AM

I'd just alter my victory formation if I were facing these guys.

Go spread: 4 wide, shotgun, with a RB behind Manning just in case of a bad snap. Go silent count, so the defense has nothing to go off of. If anyone's uncovered, you throw it. Otherwise, kneel it down.

ZONA · 12-03-2012, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enjolras

I can't be the only one who has absolutely no problem with this. It very nearly worked against the Giants and it gives them at least a shot to win the game. It ain't over until the clock hits zero after all. I never understood why you just have to accept the outcome when the other team takes a knee.

Wrong - it did NOT nearly work against the Giants. Who cares if the QB falls down because of the surge. The center to QB snap is over with in less then a second. The defense has absolutely NO chance at causing a fumble, especially if you make it a weekly thing and teams know that you're going to try that crap. The QB has the ball securely in in hand before the defense even reacts to the snap. There is a reason why why it has become normal in the NFL for the kneel down and the defense respecting it. The ONLY thing that will happen is injuries. I seriously hope the lose somebody to an injury while doing this and then maybe that lame ass HC will learn something about the NFL.

ZONA · 12-03-2012, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by underrated29

I have no problem with it. There is nothing wrong there and it is no more gimmicky or worse then when a team does a random onside kick- aka saints superbowl....yeah. Same thing.

I am sure that if we were in the playoffs against he pats that you guys would not mind us trying it and getting the ball and tying the game or winning. Like everyone has said before, you play til the whistle. Well guess what, you play til the clock strikes 0:00.

Did you see how careful manning had to be to do this? Nerves easily could have had him drop the ball or miss the snap. Plus, in college this has worked a few times. This is a mans sport and top of the line, if you want to win easy watch a different sport. As for me, there is nothing wrong with it.

I would agree it would be nice to see us send a TE or WR out and let them burn those chumps for an easy score to rub it in, but from their side of things I completely get it.

It's never worked in the NFL and it may have worked once or twice in college. So if you take the thousands upon thousands of Kneel downs over all those years, the % of a defense causing a fumble is like .000000000000001%. Yeah, let's stop pretending that it's going to work. It won't, it doesn't, it's foolish. When you say Manning could have EASILY got nervous and muffed the snap, I think that % shows you that your FOS.

I think we should have got lined up, make all those defensive players get in their ultra low stance, hold them there for 30 seconds and then take a penalty for delay of game. Do that 5 of 6 times and make their legs just burn for 30 seconds each time. Then take your last kneel down and deal with their BS.

sinuous sausage · 12-03-2012, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

I'd just alter my victory formation if I were facing these guys.

Go spread: 4 wide, shotgun, with a RB behind Manning just in case of a bad snap. Go silent count, so the defense has nothing to go off of. If anyone's uncovered, you throw it. Otherwise, kneel it down.

that's exactly what they want, tho. kinda defeats the purpose of a victory formation.

I say they just hand the ball off on a stretch play or something

sinuous sausage · 12-03-2012, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZONA

It's never worked in the NFL and it may have worked once or twice in college. So if you take the thousands upon thousands of Kneel downs over all those years, the % of a defense causing a fumble is like .000000000000001%. Yeah, let's stop pretending that it's going to work. It won't, it doesn't, it's foolish. When you say Manning could have EASILY got nervous and muffed the snap, I think that % shows you that your FOS.

but the defenses usually don't attempt this tactic

Rabb · 12-03-2012, 11:19 AM

I all but guarantee that if we lost a starter from this, the opinions would be a lot different.

Like I said in my previous post, I don't see how this is a safer play than the crap Von was called for earlier in the game. Be consistent NFL.

broncosteven · 12-03-2012, 11:33 AM

The NFL has been kneeling to ice games for as long as I have been watching football, some 40 years.

For some teams like the Giants back in the late 70's it is hard to do. Snaps can still get fumbled hence the 2 guys behind the QB now. An Ice play still needs to be executed.

I have no problem with a couple kneels at the end of the game to run out clock especially after a team picks up a 1st down to ensure another set of downs that will run out the clock.

I think it goes back to player safety who wants to see an RB or QB get a knee blown out running 3 plays to end a game they are leading and controlling?

I think from a player safety point they will have to make a rule change to prevent this type of play. If you watch it the TB players are just looking to go down fighting. They were no where near Manning nor were they trying to get the ball plus they had guys going out of their way to jump into the pile well after the play ended.

Officals in the mean time can blow a quick whistle once the QB kneels then throw flags for PF's for jumping into the pile. Once the league starts fining guys and it is ineffective it will die.

I think Schaino(?) will be a pretty good HC in the league, no need to ruin his rep by pulling stupid **** the rest of the league doesn't like or want to see.

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12-03-2012, 10:18 AM	#26
Rabb Zombie Slayer Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 5,305 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	It isn't a classless organization, it's more a reflection on the head coach. It's cheap, gimmicky "look at how tough my team is" crap and it's going to result in an injury and subsequent rule change. What pisses me off more than anything is, the penalty Von took (thanks Brady) in comparison to crap like this.

12-03-2012, 10:20 AM	#28
jmz313 Perennial Pro-bowler Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 982	Just line up in a normal formation and kneel it out. they are playing to the end, do the same. if they don't line up on WR, complete the pass.

12-03-2012, 10:23 AM	#31
Rock Chalk Cheeky Bastards Laus Deo Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Backside of the Internet Posts: 29,942 Adopt-a-Bronco: Chris Harris	Is this really any different than in basketball teams fouling at the end of the game despite the fact that they are down 3+ scores? No. I dont agree with it, but I dont get outraged by it either. There is time on the clock, you keep playing. I always thought the "Victory" formation was stupid anyway. Run a ****ing play pussies.

12-03-2012, 10:34 AM	#35
Dr. Broncenstein Oldeskool Homeskool Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Sterile Fields Posts: 11,848 Adopt-a-Bronco: Wesley Woodyard	Why not kneel down from pistol or shotgun formation? Seems like an easy fix to me, plus it makes them look like a bunch of d!cks.

12-03-2012, 10:42 AM	#40
Play2win Ring of Famer Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 9,611 Adopt-a-Bronco: The Duke	Tampa is Thug-central. No surprise there. And their football team is pretty low-class, too. It would have been hilarious to see a TE slip out, and Manning hit him for a wide open TD.

12-03-2012, 10:51 AM	#42
Play2win Ring of Famer Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 9,611 Adopt-a-Bronco: The Duke	Guess what? The modern NFL is ghey... If they are going to keep the "giving up on a play" QB slide, Then the NFL should put a rule in for the "giving up on a play" Kneel down.

12-03-2012, 10:52 AM	#43
underrated29 10-6 baby. Cutler doesnt suck Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,870 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	I have no problem with it. There is nothing wrong there and it is no more gimmicky or worse then when a team does a random onside kick- aka saints superbowl....yeah. Same thing. I am sure that if we were in the playoffs against he pats that you guys would not mind us trying it and getting the ball and tying the game or winning. Like everyone has said before, you play til the whistle. Well guess what, you play til the clock strikes 0:00. Did you see how careful manning had to be to do this? Nerves easily could have had him drop the ball or miss the snap. Plus, in college this has worked a few times. This is a mans sport and top of the line, if you want to win easy watch a different sport. As for me, there is nothing wrong with it. I would agree it would be nice to see us send a TE or WR out and let them burn those chumps for an easy score to rub it in, but from their side of things I completely get it.

12-03-2012, 10:54 AM	#44
Beantown Bronco Athletic Supporter Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mass Posts: 19,111 Adopt-a-Bronco: Matt Prater	I'd just alter my victory formation if I were facing these guys. Go spread: 4 wide, shotgun, with a RB behind Manning just in case of a bad snap. Go silent count, so the defense has nothing to go off of. If anyone's uncovered, you throw it. Otherwise, kneel it down.

12-03-2012, 11:19 AM	#49
Rabb Zombie Slayer Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 5,305 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	I all but guarantee that if we lost a starter from this, the opinions would be a lot different. Like I said in my previous post, I don't see how this is a safer play than the crap Von was called for earlier in the game. Be consistent NFL.

12-03-2012, 11:33 AM	#50
broncosteven The Kranz Dictum MWA: Flight Director Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Tranquility Base Posts: 29,307 Adopt-a-Bronco: MONEYBALL #38	The NFL has been kneeling to ice games for as long as I have been watching football, some 40 years. For some teams like the Giants back in the late 70's it is hard to do. Snaps can still get fumbled hence the 2 guys behind the QB now. An Ice play still needs to be executed. I have no problem with a couple kneels at the end of the game to run out clock especially after a team picks up a 1st down to ensure another set of downs that will run out the clock. I think it goes back to player safety who wants to see an RB or QB get a knee blown out running 3 plays to end a game they are leading and controlling? I think from a player safety point they will have to make a rule change to prevent this type of play. If you watch it the TB players are just looking to go down fighting. They were no where near Manning nor were they trying to get the ball plus they had guys going out of their way to jump into the pile well after the play ended. Officals in the mean time can blow a quick whistle once the QB kneels then throw flags for PF's for jumping into the pile. Once the league starts fining guys and it is ineffective it will die. I think Schaino(?) will be a pretty good HC in the league, no need to ruin his rep by pulling stupid **** the rest of the league doesn't like or want to see.