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Old 11-27-2012, 08:35 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Meck77 View Post
I'll have to dig through my archives one of these days and post pics of Jake's first day of training camp. Things were so dark in Denver after the Griese ere you could hardly find a fan wearing a Broncos hat on the streets. That's no BS!

All of you internet haters don't understand how bad it was.

Then in comes Jake Plummer. First day of camp the crowd erupts. The crowd suddenly has playoff aspirations. The collective chant of "Superbowl! Superbowl! Superbowl!" explodes from the crowd! Jake is pumping his arm in the air leading the crowd!

Mile High becomes magical again. Tailgating scene is rocking! Broncos are suddenly thrust into the playoff picture year after year with a climax of the AFC West Championship game.

Screw the haters. The city of Denver, the fans at the Stadium appreciated what Jake brought to our city. It was called winning!


I was high on Plummer too.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:40 AM   #77
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My top fav Broncos QBs:

1. Elway (of course)
2. Manning (HoF QB)
3. Plummer (a bright spot in a mind numbing time for the Broncos)
4. Kubiak (his overall contribution to the Broncos is fantastic)
6. Pretty much everyone else
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:04 AM   #78
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Jake Plummer. Sheesh.

I never had more expectations for a guy than I did Plummer in DEN. Plummer did have all the tools of Joe Montana and he was a lot more mobile. The thing against Jake was he refused to take it seriously. He was extremely talented, but he did not work at it. I truly thought if he got a chance to work with Shanahan to see how good he could be and see how hard the best worked at their craft not only would he get better, he would become better than Steve Young at his peak with SF and approaching that level of play Montana was able to get under Walsh. I was extremely happy he came to DEN.

Then it happened. He just did enough to get by. With no real QB behind him on the roster, he coasted. He gave his all on the field, and he is a natural competitor. However, he was never a winner. He neglected the one thing that makes the difference at that level and that is mental preparation and physical repetitions. While the current DEN QB ate, lived, and breathed Football, Jake was out playing the part. He was active in all kinds of things, but getting better as a player every day. He rarely stayed and threw after practice with the WR's and TE's. He was rarely there late going over film and talking with his coaches. And, he did not take playing QB in this league seriously.

In short, like so many other NFL players with Potential, he wasted the hell out of his talent. And he did it to my team. I took it very personally at the time. I had some great arguments with popps and others over his lack of production in big games. It was one reason I really got interested in doing what I do today.

No one welcomed him more loudly than me, and no one was his worst critic at the end when he showed such utter disdain for the team in my eyes. I wish him the best though, he is a pretty solid dude off the field. I just wish we all could have seen the fruits of his labor if he ever gave it his all instead of his just good enough.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:30 AM   #79
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he was never a winner.
He was 39-15 as a starter for the Broncos. You and I must define "winner" very differently.

Now Brodie Croyle. HE was never a winner.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:33 AM   #80
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He was 39-15 as a starter for the Broncos. You and I must define "winner" very differently.

Now Brodie Croyle. HE was never a winner.

What was his record in the post season for the Broncos?
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:41 AM   #81
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What was his record in the post season for the Broncos?
Different argument. He very specifically said "he was NEVER a winner".

Had he said "his playoff record sucked", then I would've agreed.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:52 AM   #82
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He was 39-15 as a starter for the Broncos. You and I must define "winner" very differently.

Now Brodie Croyle. HE was never a winner.
I totally define it different than you

Winners win big games, winners win championships. Winners win games they should lose based on the stats. In football, winners make the team better and are not caretakers. They make everyone around them better and more self confident that they will win because of that player.

That was Never Jake Plummer in DEN. Instead, we won a lot of games despite him. We lost a lot of games we should have won, because he failed to play well under pressure. He never played well in any playoff game for DEN. Not one. In fact, he severely underperformed.

If he ever mastered the mental part of football, I truly believe he was Hall of Fame bound. However, he never learned how to perform under pressure in DEN. He never did the little things to get better. Mike Never trusted him to read defenses presnap and make audibles. The few times he did, he blew it huge in the red zone and turned the ball over. That is the difference in being mentally prepared like Peyton Manning and not like Plummer.

That team performed well above its natural talent level, but not because their QB was driving it. Jake, like Ben Roethlisberger, gets a good reputation because he had a stellar team effort around him that looks better. Put Ben or Jake on those marginal teams and their Winning % would be around mediocre at best. They are not the drivers of their fate. Look how close those PIT losses are without Ben. The team keeps them in it all game long without him.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:58 AM   #83
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In football, winners make the team better and are not caretakers. They make everyone around them better and more self confident that they will win because of that player.

That was Never Jake Plummer in DEN.
Well, one could argue he actually did all those things. In every measurable way, we were a better performing team with him than we were with the guys before (Griese) and after him (Cutler). Hell, we never even made it to the playoffs with either of those guys. At least we made it there and won one with him.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:58 AM   #84
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What was his record in the post season for the Broncos?
Jake was 2-4 in his first 4 postseasons.

Identical to some other guy who shall remain nameless.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:41 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
Jake Plummer. Sheesh.

I never had more expectations for a guy than I did Plummer in DEN. Plummer did have all the tools of Joe Montana and he was a lot more mobile. The thing against Jake was he refused to take it seriously. He was extremely talented, but he did not work at it. I truly thought if he got a chance to work with Shanahan to see how good he could be and see how hard the best worked at their craft not only would he get better, he would become better than Steve Young at his peak with SF and approaching that level of play Montana was able to get under Walsh. I was extremely happy he came to DEN.

Then it happened. He just did enough to get by. With no real QB behind him on the roster, he coasted. He gave his all on the field, and he is a natural competitor. However, he was never a winner. He neglected the one thing that makes the difference at that level and that is mental preparation and physical repetitions. While the current DEN QB ate, lived, and breathed Football, Jake was out playing the part. He was active in all kinds of things, but getting better as a player every day. He rarely stayed and threw after practice with the WR's and TE's. He was rarely there late going over film and talking with his coaches. And, he did not take playing QB in this league seriously.

In short, like so many other NFL players with Potential, he wasted the hell out of his talent. And he did it to my team. I took it very personally at the time. I had some great arguments with popps and others over his lack of production in big games. It was one reason I really got interested in doing what I do today.

No one welcomed him more loudly than me, and no one was his worst critic at the end when he showed such utter disdain for the team in my eyes. I wish him the best though, he is a pretty solid dude off the field. I just wish we all could have seen the fruits of his labor if he ever gave it his all instead of his just good enough.
/end thread. REP
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:48 AM   #86
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What was his record in the post season for the Broncos?
Just list the scores of his play off losses, that should tell the story.

Then if people still think he got screwed by Shanny they need to read P.231-232 of "A Few Seconds of Panic"
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:02 AM   #87
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Just list the scores of his play off losses, that should tell the story.

Then if people still think he got screwed by Shanny they need to read P.231-232 of "A Few Seconds of Panic"
Please tell me which NFL QB was going to knock out PFM throwing 5 TDs with an 85% completion rate while we kept lining up The Rock 1 on 1 v Reggie Wayne.
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:48 PM   #88
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I suspect you aphave selective memory.

While Jake did not have a stellar game. Having an OL that could not block for the running game, which had all year opened up the passing game with play fakes.

I remember seeing the Blitzers in the backfield sometimes before Jake had a chance to get there himself.

I remember Ben setting a record during the game for 3rd down conversions.

I remember PIT Having almost a 14 minute TOP advantage.

I remember PIT coaches completely out coaching the mastermind.

I remember Jake almost being the rushing leader that day and getting sacked and harassed all day.

I remember about the only player on O that was still trying to win the game late in the game was Jake.

Dick Leabuea kicked Mikey's ass that day and mikey had no adjustments to counter with.


But hey for you cutlet fans I'm sure you forgot some of those things.
just about how i remember it too.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:19 AM   #89
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I LOVE YOU JAKE
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:08 AM   #90
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10 comebacks, as a Bronco...just as many, in Arizona...


http://www.pro-football-reference.co...layer=PlumJa00
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:10 AM   #91
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It's been awhile since we had a Plummer thread go more than three pages.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:11 AM   #92
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It's been awhile since we had a Plummer thread go more than three pages.
It kind of makes a person misty-eyed for OM nostalgia...
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:19 AM   #93
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10 comebacks, as a Bronco...just as many, in Arizona...


http://www.pro-football-reference.co...layer=PlumJa00
Thank you for that link and look at why they needed comebacks. Jeez, Plummer was Tebow before Tebow was Tebow!

In only one of those games did the other team score 20 points either! Jake, JAKE!
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:29 AM   #94
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Thank you for that link and look at why they needed comebacks. Jeez, Plummer was Tebow before Tebow was Tebow!

In only one of those games did the other team score 20 points either! Jake, JAKE!
I think that was also the dig on the original Broncos comeback kid back in the late 80's/early 90's wasn't it?

"If only he played that way all 4 quarters" they used to say.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:29 AM   #95
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What was his record in the post season for the Broncos?
Well, two of the years he ran into the buzzsaw that was Peyton. I'm not sure it mattered who was QB'ing for us those games. If you want to hold the Pitt game against him, fine, but im not sure that's enough to say he didnt win.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:32 AM   #96
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Well, two of the years he ran into the buzzsaw that was Peyton. I'm not sure it mattered who was QB'ing for us those games. If you want to hold the Pitt game against him, fine, but im not sure that's enough to say he didnt win.
We couldn't get off the field on third down in that Pittsburg game either.

It was a team loss.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:33 AM   #97
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Well, two of the years he ran into the buzzsaw that was Peyton. I'm not sure it mattered who was QB'ing for us those games. If you want to hold the Pitt game against him, fine, but im not sure that's enough to say he didnt win.
This. All of Plummer's reputation since has really hinged on that one poor performance. But he's one of the only QBs I can remember that went from a disappointing performance in an AFC Championship one season to the bench the next.

Most QBs get more than one shot to write that narrative.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:38 AM   #98
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This. All of Plummer's reputation since has really hinged on that one poor performance. But he's one of the only QBs I can remember that went from a disappointing performance in an AFC Championship one season to the bench the next.

Most QBs get more than one shot to write that narrative.
Didn't trent dilfer go from super bowl champ to bench or cut? Or am i remembering that incorrectly?
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:39 AM   #99
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Well, two of the years he ran into the buzzsaw that was Peyton. I'm not sure it mattered who was QB'ing for us those games. If you want to hold the Pitt game against him, fine, but im not sure that's enough to say he didnt win.
Do not forget the NE peformance at home. He sucked pretty bad that day too. If the Defense and ST's did not acrue 5 TO's against NE we do not even get the lone win he did register in the playoffs. Also, INDY's defense was nothing special in those game either. And Jake threw a pick six to open the scoring for INDY that first year as well.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:43 AM   #100
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It's been awhile since we had a Plummer thread go more than three pages.
I miss the bootlegs.
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