So who are you voting for? (President)

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

Originally Posted by Meck77

That about sums it up. People think they really have a choice of soft drinks but when you got to McDonalds or Burger King you get coke or pepsi which is the same poison. Same with the election.

so true why cant we wont we vote 3rd party i voted for romney btw but then people will vote for enough democrats to keep romney from doing anything then elect a democrat then vote enough republicans to keep the democrat president from doing anything bottom line the voters are skitzo

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by Drek

I could go on. But ask why he won't outline a single part of his economic and tax policies. He literally can't even name the low hanging fruit that everyone should be able to see. He refuses to raise taxes from the current level period, on anybody, ever, despite the fact that our current model grossly favors investors over REAL WORK.

He's a con man. A lying piece of **** used car salesman. Party ideology is the only reason why people are buying his ****. Do your own research and see that the only thing Mitt Romney really believes is that he deserves to be POTUS. Everything else is fluid. There is nothing there to rely on other than the accumulation of his own power and the protection of his own wealth.

Amen. So true. And anyone who's been paying attention knows this. Anyone watching the debate right now, who actually understands some of the issues, knows this. Romney has no substance and constantly lies and shape-shifts. He's shifted his foreign policy tonight, moderating from his stance during the primaries, just as he's done with his economic policy. He cannot be trusted.

From Sullivan's live blog of tonight's debate:

9.31 pm. Romney went very soft on Israel; some difference that "existed" - past tense - was merely "unfortunate." Watching this man shape-shift in front of your eyes is staggering. I'm fascinated by the purity of the cynicism. Seriously, I've never seen any human being up close like this - a mechanical, unstoppable machine of say anything, forget everything in the past, refuse to take any responsibility for anything he has said in the past, and just smile and golly-gee smile his way along. There's a a machine-like quality that chills me. I have no idea what he would do in office on anything. I believe nothing he says.

9.39 pm. "Where are you going to get the money?" The best question yet in all four debates. And Romney cannot answer. Because he has no answer. Notice how he keeps talking because he knows he's lying but has to keep up the pretense of actually having a sane fiscal policy. Which he doesn't.

9.42 pm. We have just seen the unraveling not of Obama's foreign policy - Romney backs it - but of Romney's mathematics. Romney's claim that he can balance the budget in eight years is another massive lie. Obama has just made a real advance in this debate. By ripping Romney's absurd proposals to build ships just because he thinks we should have more ships was devastating. Obama is exercizing mastery in this debate, and more clearly exposing the shallowness of Romney's grasp on the world.

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast....cy-debate.html

[baja]

Watching the debate it looks like mittens will be the next president. Running a good campaign does not insure a good president. Obama got killed tonight which is not hard when the country is in the shape it is in and the attacker has no track record to attack. Easy for Mitt to say he will fix everything while talking out both sides of his mouth. I am not a fan of Obama but at least we know what we got with him. With Romany not so much.

I am more fearful of the unknown that the known in this all important decision.

[pricejj]

Originally Posted by baja

I am more fearful of the unknown that the known in this all important decision.

If the U.S. continues on the path it's on, we go bankrupt and you know it. The global scene is bad and getting worse. Don't pretend otherwise. Supporting Obama's radical agenda due to a false "fear of the unknown" is lame. I suspect you know that too.

[baja]

Originally Posted by pricejj

If the U.S. continues on the path it's on, we go bankrupt and you know it. The global scene is bad and getting worse. Don't pretend otherwise. Supporting Obama's radical agenda due to a false "fear of the unknown" is lame. I suspect you know that too.

We are bankrupt. The only think keeping us afloat is the dollar for oil policy and our military backing that up. You don't think we went into Iraq for humanitarian or WMD reasons do you?

Any other entity on the planet in the financial position the US government is in would be in receivership.

[pricejj]

Originally Posted by baja

We are bankrupt. The only think keeping us afloat is the dollar for oil policy and our military backing that up. You don't think we went into Iraq for humanitarian or WMD reasons do you?

Any other entity on the planet in the financial position the US government is in would be in receivership.

Of course you're right on the bankruptcy issue, but I hold out hope that the U.S. can be saved, with Constitution intact, to continue as a model for prosperity and freedom throughout the world.

Following Europe down the Socialist Democracy rathole isn't going to solve anything, and in fact, will make things much worse. In a large part, we are already there, but as long as the idea of America exists amongst the majority, at least we have a fighting chance.

It might be getting hotter, but sprinting towards the fire only solidifies your fate.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by baja

We are bankrupt. The only think keeping us afloat is the dollar for oil policy and our military backing that up. You don't think we went into Iraq for humanitarian or WMD reasons do you?

Any other entity on the planet in the financial position the US government is in would be in receivership.

This was my jaw dropping moment in the debate tonight, when Romney kept trying to equate the U.S. with Greece. I'm thinking, if this guy doesn't know the economic difference between the U.S. and Greece, we're in deep **** if he gets elected.

[baja]

Originally Posted by pricejj

Of course you're right on the bankruptcy issue, but I hold out hope that the U.S. can be saved, with Constitution intact, to continue as a model for prosperity and freedom throughout the world.

Following Europe down the Socialist Democracy rathole isn't going to solve anything, and in fact, will make things much worse. In a large part, we are already there, but as long as the idea of America exists amongst the majority, at least we have a fighting chance.

It might be getting hotter, but sprinting towards the fire only solidifies your fate.

Look at it this way if the US goes down we drag the rest of the world down with us. So every country on the planet has to pretend all is well even those that hate us. Unless they are fools like Iraq and Iran, than the military steps in and educates them.

You could say we are the poster child for "to big to fail"

[baja]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

This was my jaw dropping moment in the debate tonight, when Romney kept trying to equate the U.S. with Greece. I'm thinking, if this guy doesn't know the economic difference between the U.S. and Greece, we're in deep **** if he gets elected.

He is like the house wife that keeps tossing strands of spaghetti against the refrigerator until some do stick.

[Willynowei]

Originally Posted by baja

We are bankrupt. The only think keeping us afloat is the dollar for oil policy and our military backing that up. You don't think we went into Iraq for humanitarian or WMD reasons do you?

Any other entity on the planet in the financial position the US government is in would be in receivership.

Funny I just posted about this in the other thread, but what's necessary is necessary. And yes, our military is a tool that was used for hundreds of years and will continue to be used in the foreseeable future to promote our economic interests, whether that's oil, the dollar, or the interests of American companies.

This doesn't affect much the interplay between Romney and Obama's tax and economic policies.

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by Sideburn

Aside from saying "ok" to approve a mission he had nothing to do with planning, what did he do to get bin laden?

This is the stupidest ****ing argument in, well, ever.

Why even have a debate on foreign policy? Why even talk about the military?

Hell, why talk about anything, because the president does not, nor has he ever had, influence over anything. Ever.

Seriously. You're an idiot, and I feel sorry for your parents for giving birth to you.

[Broncojef]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

This was my jaw dropping moment in the debate tonight, when Romney kept trying to equate the U.S. with Greece. I'm thinking, if this guy doesn't know the economic difference between the U.S. and Greece, we're in deep **** if he gets elected.

At some point you just can't keep paying an escalating pile of benefits to everybody. As our debt soars to unprecedented levels we are in the same shape as Greece with no power to help ourselves let alone others. Greece made bad choices and has hard decisions to make, like giving their country away to Germany and other EU powers to get bailouts. I pray America gets a leader of fiscal responsibility before our currency is total trash. I think we are in deep **** now regardless of who the President is.

[Bacchus]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

Poll results are fairly interesting. Including the two leaners choices, it is Romney 21, Obama 12.

Ofcourse the OP did not include an "other" option for those of us who are not voting for either gentleman.

I voted for Romney just to skew the poll.

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by baja

...Obama got killed tonight...

You thought so? I thought Obama clearly won the debate.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by TonyR

You thought so? I thought Obama clearly won the debate.

The public agreed. The CNN poll had it 48% to 40% for Obama, and that was with +8 Republican polling. The CBS flash poll, which was only independents, had it decisively for Obama, 53% to 23%. Of course, we won't know if this results in any poll movement for a few days. My guess is it won't. I don't think people much care about foreign policy right now.

[TonyR]

^ Not bad considering that once again Romney was blatantly and painfully dishonest, and most people don't know the difference.

[JCMElway]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Rho's mouth is so much like a p***Y, straight men can pump it without feeling gay.

This, along with post #99, crosses the line. Take a week off.

FORUM GUIDELINES:

"If your attacks comes with no substance, are vulgar, or it seems that all you add to the forum is attacks on people who disagree with you, you put yourself at risk for a ban period....."

[baja]

Originally Posted by TonyR

You thought so? I thought Obama clearly won the debate.

I should clarify. I thought Romney convinced more people to vote for him (Won) with his platudes and catch phrases and looked better on stage. The whole election process has become a sham. The average American voter is attracted to catch phrases and sound bites, this is where Romney scored points.

Have you ever watched the film Idiocracy? I think that is the direction we are headed.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Broncojef

At some point you just can't keep paying an escalating pile of benefits to everybody. As our debt soars to unprecedented levels we are in the same shape as Greece with no power to help ourselves let alone others. Greece made bad choices and has hard decisions to make, like giving their country away to Germany and other EU powers to get bailouts. I pray America gets a leader of fiscal responsibility before our currency is total trash. I think we are in deep **** now regardless of who the President is.

Greece's economy is smaller than Maryland's. The U.S. is a 15 trillion dollar economy. Most of the deficit, we owe to ourselves. Once the economy gets going and Americans get back to work, that deficit gets resolved very quickly. Greece doesn't have that option. They can neither produce, nor work their way out of the fix they are in.

The reason our safety net became a problem is because we had politicians who planned this out. This has been the Grover Norquist plan since the 80s: Reduce taxes until the country can no longer fund the programs the Right Wing doesn't like, then claim the programs are a failure and end them. The Right Wing realized they could never go after Medicare and SS head on, so they landed on the creative idea that if they could erode the funding out from under them, the programs would die on their own. If we shifted the tax code back to pre-Reagan, this stuff would clear up pretty quickly.

Much or our problems came from too many tax cuts and too much deregulation. The tax cuts were a direct result of the Right pursuing a mission to starve the government and bring it down, which worked. The deregulation was a direct result of the lobbying of crooks like Phil Gramm, working in the interests of banksters and Wall Street, to free them from the right and proper regulatory functions of government. We can all see where that got us.

You could easily argue that we have legislated our way into this mess. We could turn that around at any time, except that we have an obstructionist Right Wing in Congress still pursuing the agenda of Grover Norquist, rather than their constitutional function of ensuring the general welfare of the American people.

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by baja

I should clarify. I thought Romney convinced more people to vote for him (Won) with his platudes and catch phrases and looked better on stage. The whole election process has become a sham. The average American voter is attracted to catch phrases and sound bites, this is where Romney scored points.

I agree with much of this. Most voters are low info voters so it's more about perception and performance than substance. But I don't agree that Romney "looked better" last night. I thought Romney looked flustered more often, and Obama exposed him more often.

[baja]

Originally Posted by TonyR

I agree with much of this. Most voters are low info voters so it's more about perception and performance than substance. But I don't agree that Romney "looked better" last night. I thought Romney looked flustered more often, and Obama exposed him more often.

Unfortunately white and handsome will influence way to many voting citizens


"Oh look George isn't Mitt handsome, he looks like a president, the guy we got now just doesn't look the part".

"Right Martha"

Not saying everyone is that shallow but I do believe an alarming number are, enough to throw the election to Romney. He is playing the part well.

Sad state of affairs really. And if you think I am over reacting or misjudging just look at the substance of the ads both sides are spending millions on.

Those ads are the way the are because they work.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by TonyR

I agree with much of this. Most voters are low info voters so it's more about perception and performance than substance. But I don't agree that Romney "looked better" last night. I thought Romney looked flustered more often, and Obama exposed him more often.

Not to mention that those who are ill-informed think this economy can be fixed overnight and wonder why Obama hasn't done it yet. I'm astounded that any American would not just look at the numbers of the last thirty years and not realize what is going on. It's right there in black and white. The incomes of the rich have climbed exponentially while the income of working Americans has been a flat line. They're getting screwed and don't know it. This is the result of policy. Romney champions that kind of unfair policy. He benefits massively from that policy. That policy does not create jobs. It does not create economic activity. It simply redistributes the wealth of the nation upward into fewer and fewer hands while we find ourselves unable to carry out the basic functions of society, like education and infrastructure. The idea that Americans would vote, during a depression, for the first candidate who is hiding wealth offshore is mind-boggling. It simply proves that a great number of people really have no clue what is going on.

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

...It's right there in black and white...

But...but...but...Communism! Socialism! Marxism! Um, or something!

I'm always glad to see that some other people get it. Sadly, there aren't enough who do. Obama has been a disappointment, and we're not happy with him. But the alternative is a catastrophe waiting to happen.

[baja]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Not to mention that those who are ill-informed think this economy can be fixed overnight and wonder why Obama hasn't done it yet. I'm astounded that any American would not just look at the numbers of the last thirty years and not realize what is going on. It's right there in black and white. The incomes of the rich have climbed exponentially while the income of working Americans has been a flat line. They're getting screwed and don't know it. This is the result of policy. Romney champions that kind of unfair policy. He benefits massively from that policy. That policy does not create jobs. It does not create economic activity. It simply redistributes the wealth of the nation upward into fewer and fewer hands while we find ourselves unable to carry out the basic functions of society, like education and infrastructure. The idea that Americans would vote, during a depression, for the first candidate who is hiding wealth offshore is mind-boggling. It simply proves that a great number of people really have no clue what is going on.

Actually "flat line" would be an improvement over what exists now.

This is why I say Mittens won the debate last night because he's cute. It's almost come down to that .


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by baja

Actually "flat line" would be an improvement over what exists now.

This is why I say Mittens won the debate last night because he's cute. It's almost come down to that .


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy

I've got to see that movie.