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Old 10-15-2012, 11:37 PM   #1
ZONA
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First off, this is not a negative thread. I was thrilled about the comeback win as much as the next guy.

Simple observation though, this sloppy 1st half play trend still continues. Big halftime deficits, a blunder of all sorts of mistakes (penalties, turnovers, not falling on live balls, tripping over own feet to negate a sure TD, you name it).

As we saw tonight, against teams like the Chargers and Raiders, you have a chance to actually still win the game with a great 2nd half performance. But keep this up, and as we saw in some previous games, you WON'T beat the good teams with this many mistakes.

Honestly I don't know if you blame these players or the coaches. How is it that a very well coached team can avoid these mental blunders, at least on a much more consistent basis. They have rookies, retreads, etc as well. So how is it that this many mistakes continue to find their way to the field for us. I was never really big on blaming coaching for mental mistakes like turnovers and penalties but with this many, I am starting to lean a little to believing coaching has more to do with this then I had thought.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:38 PM   #2
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Eh... I don't think our Returners will ****up that bad ever again.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:39 PM   #3
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There's no point to this thread. It sucks!
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:40 PM   #4
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Theres no "lesson" to really be learned. Fumbles are unfortunate and (maybe) careless, not the result of mental errors. Either is tripping over your own feet on the way to the endzone.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:52 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by maven View Post
There's no point to this thread. It sucks!
You must be a retard. Read again. Maybe a 3rd or 4th time for somebody like you, before you discover the meaning.


SonOfLe-loLang: I don't agree. While not all turnovers are mental mistakes, some are. And it wasn't just the turnovers. As I said, the types of penalties (unnecessary roughness, false starts, etc - these are all drive killers). How about that kick off where we didn't even field it. It's not a punt, you HAVE to field a kick off, we got lucky there. Those ARE things that are "learned" as you say. How about recovering the loose ball. Kudos for Carter for his scoop but as you saw Leonard try it, he cost the team a turnover by not securing the ball.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:56 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by ZONA View Post
You must be a retard. Read again. Maybe a 3rd or 4th time for somebody like you, before you discover the meaning.


SonOfLe-loLang: I don't agree. While not all turnovers are mental mistakes, some are. And it wasn't just the turnovers. As I said, the types of penalties (unnecessary roughness, false starts, etc - these are all drive killers). How about that kick off where we didn't even field it. It's not a punt, you HAVE to field a kick off, we got lucky there. Those ARE things that are "learned" as you say. How about recovering the loose ball. Kudos for Carter for his scoop but as you saw Leonard try it, he cost the team a turnover by not securing the ball.
Your thread ****ing sucks you ****ing retard. For such a great night you want to rain on the ****ing parade. Eat ****.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:00 AM   #7
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Your thread ****ing sucks you ****ing retard. For such a great night you want to rain on the ****ing parade. Eat ****.
Oh shut up you stupid homer. Nobody's raining on any parade. Clearly you missed the very first line in my post. As I said, maybe you need to read again, this time try like 7 times.....and focus on the 1st line. Here, I'll help you, it looks a little something like this

"First off, this is not a negative thread. I was thrilled about the comeback win as much as the next guy."
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:02 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by ZONA View Post
Oh shut up you stupid homer. Nobody's raining on any parade. Clearly you missed the very first line in my post. As I said, maybe you need to read again, this time try like 7 times.....and focus on the 1st line. Here, I'll help you, it looks a little something like this

"First off, this is not a negative thread. I was thrilled about the comeback win as much as the next guy."
Look at your thread title a-hole. Enjoy the ****ing comeback win. We have two weeks to discuss.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:12 AM   #9
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Look at your thread title a-hole. Enjoy the ****ing comeback win. We have two weeks to discuss.
Ok, so next time don't just read the thread title. Try reading the post as well. And don't be such a homer. Obviously I loved that we won, I clearly said it very first thing. What, you don't think it's alarming on how many mistakes we are making and you don't think it's a relevant topic? Sure we're all stoked about the win dude. But put the pom pom's down for a second and give somebody some slack will ya.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:13 AM   #10
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Great time for the bye now then i guess. Sort out ball security, we've got two weeks to do it. Then come back in and wipe the floor with the remaining schedule.

On the flipside, if we're this good while making a veritable ****ton of mistakes, imagine how good we'll be when they dry up. This team has zero complete performances in 6 weeks and is 3-3. If we got our **** together we could be the best team in the AFC, legit.

Last edited by spiralism; 10-16-2012 at 12:28 AM..
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:40 AM   #11
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Meh.

Nobody was happy with the first half.

Everyone was happy with the second.

Enjoy your drunken stupers (I KNOW I AM! WOOO WHISKEY YAHOO #DRUNJ) and realize there's plenty of blame and kudos to go around.

OP was merely trying to get a leg up on the "don't say I didn't tell you" populace. Whoopedy doo.

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Old 10-16-2012, 01:29 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by ZONA View Post
Oh shut up you stupid homer. Nobody's raining on any parade. Clearly you missed the very first line in my post. As I said, maybe you need to read again, this time try like 7 times.....and focus on the 1st line. Here, I'll help you, it looks a little something like this

"First off, this is not a negative thread. I was thrilled about the comeback win as much as the next guy."


Agree with your first comments.....but hold on the ass clowns accusing you of not being a real fan are about to jump all over you.

BUT YOU ARE CORRECT.
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:24 AM   #13
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Eh... I don't think our Returners will ****up that bad ever again.
Its always something with this team though.

The reality here is that this team has a handful of very good players and then a handful of guys who aren't even starter quality. The talent disparity is huge on this club.

Our LBs outside of Miller are one dimensional run stoppers who aren't even particularly good at stopping the run.

Our DL is a one dimensional pass rusher (Doom), a solid starter type who's a rookie (Wolfe), and then guys who are only good at stuffing the run and get no real pass rush.

Our CBs are good, but our safeties are inconsistent and can't man up on hardly anyone.

Our OL runs hot and cold which really means that they just can't handle elite pass rushers as those are the guys who always seem to make our OL look bad.

Our TEs are a mixed back. Dreessen is well rounded but unspectacular. Tamme is basically a big, slow WR. He can't block at all.

Our WRs only go three deep with Thomas, Decker, and Stokley. This is an offense that needs 4 deep WRs. Not studs but guys who can do their jobs. Matt Willis showed us why he doesn't belong on this team last night. In a simpler offense his limited reps could be enough, but in this offense he's never going to catch up mentally.

Our RBs really are McGahee and a bunch of JAGs, and McGahee is solid but not explosive. Hillman has potential to be something but he's not there yet.

Then we get to the rest of our depth which is just outright non-existent.

This is the result of putting all our eggs in the Peyton Manning basket over the off-season. Even though we won the bidding we left ourselves exposed at MLB, RB, etc.. Picture how different this team would be if we had outbid the Ravens for Jameel McClain and also signed Mike Tolbert to give us another proven ball carrier. That's just two easy moves that were well within our grasp, not even something like giving real money to Paul Soliai.
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:35 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by ZONA View Post
First off, this is not a negative thread. I was thrilled about the comeback win as much as the next guy.

Simple observation though, this sloppy 1st half play trend still continues. Big halftime deficits, a blunder of all sorts of mistakes (penalties, turnovers, not falling on live balls, tripping over own feet to negate a sure TD, you name it).

As we saw tonight, against teams like the Chargers and Raiders, you have a chance to actually still win the game with a great 2nd half performance. But keep this up, and as we saw in some previous games, you WON'T beat the good teams with this many mistakes.

Honestly I don't know if you blame these players or the coaches. How is it that a very well coached team can avoid these mental blunders, at least on a much more consistent basis. They have rookies, retreads, etc as well. So how is it that this many mistakes continue to find their way to the field for us. I was never really big on blaming coaching for mental mistakes like turnovers and penalties but with this many, I am starting to lean a little to believing coaching has more to do with this then I had thought.
I agree, but this is a momentum game. Denver will build from this because they won. Now they have a bye week to work on scoring in the first half. I have always been a 5/8 cup person myself. I see great things ahead.

Last edited by Bacchus; 10-16-2012 at 01:55 PM..
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:57 AM   #15
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Its always something with this team though.

The reality here is that this team has a handful of very good players and then a handful of guys who aren't even starter quality. The talent disparity is huge on this club.

Our LBs outside of Miller are one dimensional run stoppers who aren't even particularly good at stopping the run.
Yes, I agree. Woodyard has had a couple of good games but he's still very much hit and miss, and Mays just takes very bad angles even in run support. At this point he's not even a two down thumper. DJ will have to come back in and start at MLB.

Quote:
Our DL is a one dimensional pass rusher (Doom), a solid starter type who's a rookie (Wolfe), and then guys who are only good at stuffing the run and get no real pass rush.
Well, I think Vickerson is better than people think at collapsing the interior but yes he's not a complete player and really only has a bull rush move.


Quote:
Our OL runs hot and cold which really means that they just can't handle elite pass rushers as those are the guys who always seem to make our OL look bad.
I disagree. We haven't really had a true measure of the interior since Walton/Kuper have been injured. The Tackles have done a great job in pass protection.


Quote:
Our WRs only go three deep with Thomas, Decker, and Stokley. This is an offense that needs 4 deep WRs. Not studs but guys who can do their jobs. Matt Willis showed us why he doesn't belong on this team last night. In a simpler offense his limited reps could be enough, but in this offense he's never going to catch up mentally.
That's why I want Danny Amendola who's going to be a FA this offseason to run in this offense. He lines up all over the field, is tremendously difficult to cover in shorter routes and has breakaway speed.

Our RBs really are McGahee and a bunch of JAGs, and McGahee is solid but not explosive. Hillman has potential to be something but he's not there yet.

Quote:
Then we get to the rest of our depth which is just outright non-existent.

This is the result of putting all our eggs in the Peyton Manning basket over the off-season. Even though we won the bidding we left ourselves exposed at MLB, RB, etc.. Picture how different this team would be if we had outbid the Ravens for Jameel McClain and also signed Mike Tolbert to give us another proven ball carrier. That's just two easy moves that were well within our grasp, not even something like giving real money to Paul Soliai.
This is where we disagree. Talent is all important, but what get's constantly underestimated is consistency of coaching staff and defensive/offensives schemes.

McClain is a better LBer than Mays, Tolbert is better than Moreno/Ball, but they aren't good enough individually to account for wins.
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:06 AM   #16
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Obviously I loved that we won, I clearly said it very first thing. What, you don't think it's alarming on how many mistakes we are making and you don't think it's a relevant topic? Sure we're all stoked about the win dude. But put the pom pom's down for a second and give somebody some slack will ya.
You are absolutely 100% correct.

There are no more elite teams. Every team has flaws and what is becoming the norm more and more often is that good/great teams don't necessarily dominate others but make less mistakes and the other teams usually beat themselves by making more mistakes.

Take every game we've lost this season and we didn't get mauled, manhandled or blown off the ball. We even managed to come back and keep it close in the end but the underlying difference was that we made one/two mistakes too many.

This is the bottom line in the nfl nowadays. Great QBs give you a chance, but it's the teams that collectively make the least amount of mistakes that capitalize on that chance.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:22 AM   #17
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Its always something with this team though.

The reality here is that this team has a handful of very good players and then a handful of guys who aren't even starter quality. The talent disparity is huge on this club.

Our LBs outside of Miller are one dimensional run stoppers who aren't even particularly good at stopping the run.

Our DL is a one dimensional pass rusher (Doom), a solid starter type who's a rookie (Wolfe), and then guys who are only good at stuffing the run and get no real pass rush.

Our CBs are good, but our safeties are inconsistent and can't man up on hardly anyone.

Our OL runs hot and cold which really means that they just can't handle elite pass rushers as those are the guys who always seem to make our OL look bad.

Our TEs are a mixed back. Dreessen is well rounded but unspectacular. Tamme is basically a big, slow WR. He can't block at all.

Our WRs only go three deep with Thomas, Decker, and Stokley. This is an offense that needs 4 deep WRs. Not studs but guys who can do their jobs. Matt Willis showed us why he doesn't belong on this team last night. In a simpler offense his limited reps could be enough, but in this offense he's never going to catch up mentally.

Our RBs really are McGahee and a bunch of JAGs, and McGahee is solid but not explosive. Hillman has potential to be something but he's not there yet.

Then we get to the rest of our depth which is just outright non-existent.

This is the result of putting all our eggs in the Peyton Manning basket over the off-season. Even though we won the bidding we left ourselves exposed at MLB, RB, etc.. Picture how different this team would be if we had outbid the Ravens for Jameel McClain and also signed Mike Tolbert to give us another proven ball carrier. That's just two easy moves that were well within our grasp, not even something like giving real money to Paul Soliai.
The problem with this "analysis" is that we haven't been getting beat because we don't have enough talent. We've been getting beat because of stupid mistakes and turnovers.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:55 AM   #18
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The problem with this "analysis" is that we haven't been getting beat because we don't have enough talent. We've been getting beat because of stupid mistakes and turnovers.
The stupid mistakes are the result of mediocre to bad players. Matt Willis running the wrong route and causing a pick six is because Willis isn't good enough at reads and route running to play in this offense. Our LBs can't cover because they just aren't smart enough to make the right reads. I could go on. My point is that a lot of these turnovers and mistakes are being done by veteran players. Those guys aren't going to stop making stupid mistakes any more than DJ is going to stop driving drunk. They need to be replaced, andrew not replacing several of them this offs eason has already cost this team wins.

Talent is more than just physical ability. Our team lacks high football IQ players, and that is an important talent gap we need to bridge. Hence why 37 year old Kieth Brooking is now a key part of our D.

Last edited by Drek; 10-16-2012 at 08:59 AM..
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:04 AM   #19
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Of course there were mental errors, when you don't catch the ball on a punt return mental error, but hell the freaking happen and they have happened a lot to this team but we are 3-3 and have the lead in the AFC west (Yes I consider it a lead as we as of now own the tie breaker with SD) and the easiest part of our schedule is to come.

This thread sucks.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:05 AM   #20
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The Chargers ARE a good team.

Let's not go lumping them in with the Raiders.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:11 AM   #21
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The Chargers ARE a good team.

Let's not go lumping them in with the Raiders.
THIS...

The Chargers will win several more games, and make us sweat out the AFC West...again....
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:14 AM   #22
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The Chargers ARE a good team.

Let's not go lumping them in with the Raiders.
Exactly. Even with their injuries. I think they've gotten worse at WR but still THE threat in the west. Gruden said it best that he thinks the west will come down to the wire
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:15 AM   #23
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As far as this game, the officiating was dreadful.

1st fumble ( punt return), there was clear interference with the catch ( Rule is there must be a 2 yard buffer zone around a player when a fair catch is called for. SD had a player within 1 yard on the catch, but no flag was dropped.

2nd fumble...short kickoff should have been covered better , then Bolden did screw up and drop the ball when hit after picking it up. However, he clearly fell on the ball and was on top of it with NO SD players on the ground. He was touched down THEN 2 SD players jumped on top of him and wrestled it away in the pile. The whistle should have blown before then. Almost like the replacement ref game in Atlanta the Refs allowed the ball to be stolen in the pile.

The false starts on Rivers in the first half were really pretty bad also and we were given gifts there. But it was made up for by the bogus PI on Decker in the 4th that took away a chance for PM to finish the win on offense. Like the refs were determined to give Rivers another chance to get back in the game, because it makes for "good tv". The non holding calls that Doom has to put up with continuously are also pretty disgusting.

At any rate a lot of our "mistakes" were exacerbated by an inconsistent and poor job by the officials. If we did not have PM in our backfield a lot more calls would be going against us, because the officials seem to favor the league "favorites" in WAY too many instances ( see Brady, Tom) .
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:21 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Drek View Post
Its always something with this team though.

The reality here is that this team has a handful of very good players and then a handful of guys who aren't even starter quality. The talent disparity is huge on this club.

Our LBs outside of Miller are one dimensional run stoppers who aren't even particularly good at stopping the run.

Our DL is a one dimensional pass rusher (Doom), a solid starter type who's a rookie (Wolfe), and then guys who are only good at stuffing the run and get no real pass rush.

Our CBs are good, but our safeties are inconsistent and can't man up on hardly anyone.

Our OL runs hot and cold which really means that they just can't handle elite pass rushers as those are the guys who always seem to make our OL look bad.

Our TEs are a mixed back. Dreessen is well rounded but unspectacular. Tamme is basically a big, slow WR. He can't block at all.

Our WRs only go three deep with Thomas, Decker, and Stokley. This is an offense that needs 4 deep WRs. Not studs but guys who can do their jobs. Matt Willis showed us why he doesn't belong on this team last night. In a simpler offense his limited reps could be enough, but in this offense he's never going to catch up mentally.

Our RBs really are McGahee and a bunch of JAGs, and McGahee is solid but not explosive. Hillman has potential to be something but he's not there yet.

Then we get to the rest of our depth which is just outright non-existent.

This is the result of putting all our eggs in the Peyton Manning basket over the off-season. Even though we won the bidding we left ourselves exposed at MLB, RB, etc.. Picture how different this team would be if we had outbid the Ravens for Jameel McClain and also signed Mike Tolbert to give us another proven ball carrier. That's just two easy moves that were well within our grasp, not even something like giving real money to Paul Soliai.
Ok...so in your great plan of picking up McClain/Tolbert (and not entering the Manning sweepstakes), who is playing quarterback for the Denver Broncos?
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:22 AM   #25
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The stupid mistakes are the result of mediocre to bad players. Matt Willis running the wrong route and causing a pick six is because Willis isn't good enough at reads and route running to play in this offense. Our LBs can't cover because they just aren't smart enough to make the right reads. I could go on. My point is that a lot of these turnovers and mistakes are being done by veteran players. Those guys aren't going to stop making stupid mistakes any more than DJ is going to stop driving drunk. They need to be replaced, andrew not replacing several of them this offs eason has already cost this team wins.

Talent is more than just physical ability. Our team lacks high football IQ players, and that is an important talent gap we need to bridge. Hence why 37 year old Kieth Brooking is now a key part of our D.
The three interceptions against the Falcons is because our players aren't good enough? The fumbles McGahee has had are because he isn't good enough? DT's fumbles? You do realize he's our most physically gifted receiver right? Come on now. Our turnover differential issues have very little to do with a lack of talent. Your "analysis" is a joke.
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