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Old 10-10-2012, 06:10 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic View Post
Was it winning football? 0-3 is winning? Why do tebow foowers ignore these most important games of that year?
Because they lost. Not much to talk about -- some of us have been watching football long enough to understand this game will break your heart. You take your losses, you take your wins.

Everybody loses. Everybody is capable of losing. Not everybody is capable of winning, and certainly not winning more than they lose.

But more specifically, I thought the first Patriots game was winnable, and turnovers turned the tide. I thought Buffalo was a classic meltdown where the QB becomes an interception machine (it happens to every quarterback, sometimes even later in their careers). And I thought in the KC game Tebow was absolutely frozen, afraid to pull the trigger because he knew they were playing a team that would not score much. He thought he could just hold serve the whole game and win it at the end -- and Elway was right in his diagnosis. Tebow was not "pulling the trigger" in that game. He was tight, causing him to not throw it or throw it late. He fixed that in the Pittsburgh game -- unloaded the ball with courage.

But I know what you're thinking -- excuses, excuses, excuses. And they are. So why do you just ask a rhetorical question about why these games are supposedly "ignored?" They were bad games by the QB, bad games by the team, and they lost. But if you get specifics like I've outline above, you'll think "excuses." Because the only answer you'll accept is "Tebow is a horrible QB, the Broncos shouldn't have drafted him, Coach Fox shouldn't have started him, the Jets shouldn't have traded for him, the Jets shouldn't even be thinking about bringing him in, and when he eventually starts for the Jets, the Jets will be stupid to do that, instead of being a brilliant football mind like me."

All you're looking for is comfort, of confirmation that every jab you've ever taken at Tebow was justified. But unfortunately, you're going to have to hang in there and wonder for a while longer.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:53 AM   #252
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Because they lost. Not much to talk about -- some of us have been watching football long enough to understand this game will break your heart. You take your losses, you take your wins.

Everybody loses. Everybody is capable of losing. Not everybody is capable of winning, and certainly not winning more than they lose.

But more specifically, I thought the first Patriots game was winnable, and turnovers turned the tide. I thought Buffalo was a classic meltdown where the QB becomes an interception machine (it happens to every quarterback, sometimes even later in their careers). And I thought in the KC game Tebow was absolutely frozen, afraid to pull the trigger because he knew they were playing a team that would not score much. He thought he could just hold serve the whole game and win it at the end -- and Elway was right in his diagnosis. Tebow was not "pulling the trigger" in that game. He was tight, causing him to not throw it or throw it late. He fixed that in the Pittsburgh game -- unloaded the ball with courage.

But I know what you're thinking -- excuses, excuses, excuses. And they are. So why do you just ask a rhetorical question about why these games are supposedly "ignored?" They were bad games by the QB, bad games by the team, and they lost. But if you get specifics like I've outline above, you'll think "excuses." Because the only answer you'll accept is "Tebow is a horrible QB, the Broncos shouldn't have drafted him, Coach Fox shouldn't have started him, the Jets shouldn't have traded for him, the Jets shouldn't even be thinking about bringing him in, and when he eventually starts for the Jets, the Jets will be stupid to do that, instead of being a brilliant football mind like me."

All you're looking for is comfort, of confirmation that every jab you've ever taken at Tebow was justified. But unfortunately, you're going to have to hang in there and wonder for a while longer.

I only ask cause its 3 games(full games). The exact amount lost by Orton at the start of the season. Now I hated Orton back in Chicago but its the same amount of games and one set of 3 games gets overlooked while the other scrutinized and the basis of arguments. I really don't need to make any jabs anymore though. The jets and Tebows production do that for me. He showed nothing in the preseason. Nothing. Not even enough for the jets to make a change at QB(one who is ranked at the bottom) if you are looking for him to develop its not goin to happen. He has shown nothing that warrants a promotion this year. Has yet to score even 1 point as a jet. You'd think that would've happened in preseason. He's on the field during punts. That's not good for his progression.

Last edited by Drunken.Broncoholic; 10-10-2012 at 08:26 AM..
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:03 AM   #253
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I only ask cause its 3 games. The exact amount lost by Orton at the start of the season.
...and stopped reading.

What?!
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:12 AM   #254
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I only ask cause its 3 games. The exact amount lost by Orton at the start of the season. Now I hated Orton back in Chicago but its the same amount of games and one set of 3 games gets overlooked while the other scrutinized and the basis of arguments.
If there were a discussion of Orton playing in Dallas over Romo, would you expect anybody to keep bringing up those "3 games" and saying "but Orton lost those three games" and "why is nobody talking about the 3 games Orton lost?" QB's play bad sometimes, teams play bad, games get lost.

A loss is unremarkable. Is the default position in life -- it is the outcome that you and I could achieve at quarterback. A winning streak, on the other hand, is something to talk about. And that's why people talk about it -- it's the spark that may show something.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:14 AM   #255
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I really don't need to make any jabs anymore though. The jets and Tebows production do that for me. He showed nothing in the preseason. Nothing.
He did look better in the preseason. He has improved since he was a Bronco last year. May not be enough, but his ability to throw the ball gets better and better. He'll need to work it into his game running an offense, to give the muscle memory a chance to work under fire.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:19 AM   #256
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Romo is on his way out of Dallas. He's nothing more than a journeyman now. Those 2 can battle it out for mediocrity.

The Jets aren't doing him any favors. It's like the aren't even taking him serious as a QB in this league. Inventing new positions for him and gimmick plays. He's turning into a different position before our eyes. Like a Colin kapernick(spell)

I gotta give you credit Jay, you come with substance and a good argument. Instead of the usual name calling you have level headed posts. Refreshing to see someone like tebow and not accuse me of hating religion.

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Old 10-10-2012, 08:23 AM   #257
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Didn't he go 1-4?
1-4 is 4 losses, not 3...
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:25 AM   #258
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1-4 is 4 losses, not 3...
My bad I was counting the game he started but not counting it as a loss since he didnt have a chance to finish it. Should have said 4 since the starter of any game gets the W L if taken out halfway through
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:31 AM   #259
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Didn't he go 1-4?
Comical. Peyton Manning went 1-8 in his first season. Then 2-7.

Dude Sux.

And KO had a whole 2 season's body of work prior to that 1-3 start. Where we got to witness the 3-10 start that led to his first benching. Oh, and that was his 6th year in the league.

Not to mention you have to lump in two playoff games to invent that 1-4 number. WTF?
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:35 AM   #260
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My bad I was counting the game he started but not counting it as a loss since he didnt have a chance to finish it. Should have said 4 since the starter of any game gets the W L if taken out halfway through
Also the remaining premise is flawed.

You ask why we can ignore Tebow's losses and not Orton's at the start of the season without approaching it under the context that Orton's start of the season losses were a continuation of the most futile period in Denver Broncos history. It wasn't just 4 losses... it was 2 full seasons of losses.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:36 AM   #261
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Comical. Peyton Manning went 1-8 in his first season. Then 2-7.

Dude Sux.

And KO had a whole 2 season's body of work prior to that 1-3 start. Where we got to witness the 3-10 start that led to his first benching. Oh, and that was his 6th year in the league.

Not to mention you have to lump in two playoff games to invent that 1-4 number. WTF?
2 playoff games? I said 0-3 last games of the regular season. 1-4 was the start of the season. I made a mistake not counting the SD game as another L. You don't have to tell me about Orton. I was one of his biggest haters since Purdue days.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:39 AM   #262
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Also the remaining premise is flawed.

You ask why we can ignore Tebow's losses and not Orton's at the start of the season without approaching it under the context that Orton's start of the season losses were a continuation of the most futile period in Denver Broncos history. It wasn't just 4 losses... it was 2 full seasons of losses.
I was screaming for Orton to get benched before that season even started. The difference is what happened after. Some people see it as Tebow winning like crazy. I saw it as Marion Barber and Rivers bailing him out.


Ask yourself this, would the playoff berth exist because of Tebows skills? Or did it exist because of Marion Barbers blunders and Rivers beating the raiders? Or was it both? I see it as it would've never happened with Rivers beating the raiders. The KC game was the last straw for me.

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Old 10-10-2012, 08:48 AM   #263
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I was screaming for Orton to get benched before that season even started. The difference is what happened after. Some people see it as Tebow winning like crazy. I saw it as Marion Barber and Rivers bailing him out.
Whether you hated Orton or not doesn't really mean you're not making irrational comparisons. A 3 game losing streak in a QB's first 16 games is more an expectation than an anomaly. Aaron Rodgers closed out his first season 1-5. On a team that went to the NFC Championship the year before.

Sub that out with playing on a team that went 4-14 without you over the prior two seasons and a 3 game losing streak somewhere is a virtual guarantee.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:52 AM   #264
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I was screaming for Orton to get benched before that season even started. The difference is what happened after. Some people see it as Tebow winning like crazy. I saw it as Marion Barber and Rivers bailing him out.
Bailing him out?

None of his teammates could catch a ****ing ball, you have Demaryius watching him take a hit as he turns the corner instead of blocking for his QB, fumbles McGahee was injured, the defense was atrocious, but yes... you must be right and this was just a case of being bailed out.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:52 AM   #265
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Whether you hated Orton or not doesn't really mean you're not making irrational comparisons. A 3 game losing streak in a QB's first 16 games is more an expectation than an anomaly. Aaron Rodgers closed out his first season 1-5. On a team that went to the NFC Championship the year before.

Sub that out with playing on a team that went 4-14 without you over the prior two seasons and a 3 game losing streak somewhere is a virtual guarantee.
I'm saying those last 3 games were the most important of the year. And Tebows performance steadily dropped in those games. 1st one i said no big deal pats are tough to beat. 2nd game started to worry me cause buffalo was a shaky team. 3rd game was it for me. Losing to KC 7-3 with one of the worst QB performances I've seen just didnt sit we'll back then. Those were 3 chances to show he can lead them to a berth. It didnt happen.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:53 AM   #266
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I'm saying those last 3 games were the most important of the year. And Tebows performance steadily dropped in those games. 1st one i said no big deal pats are tough to beat. 2nd game started to worry me cause buffalo was a shaky team. 3rd game was it for me. Losing to KC 7-3 with one of the worst QB performances I've seen just didnt sit we'll back then. Those were 3 chances to show he can lead them to a berth. It didnt happen.
Wtf are you talking about? Are you on drugs?
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:54 AM   #267
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Bailing him out?

None of his teammates could catch a ****ing ball, you have Demaryius watching him take a hit as he turns the corner instead of blocking for his QB, fumbles McGahee was injured, the defense was atrocious, but yes... you must be right and this was just a case of being bailed out.
What would you call KC scoring a total of 7 points? What if Rivers lost to the raiders that afternoon?
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:55 AM   #268
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Wtf are you talking about? Are you on drugs?
They would've clinched a playoff berth winning one of those 3 games = most important of the year.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:01 AM   #269
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I'm saying those last 3 games were the most important of the year. And Tebows performance steadily dropped in those games. 1st one i said no big deal pats are tough to beat. 2nd game started to worry me cause buffalo was a shaky team. 3rd game was it for me. Losing to KC 7-3 with one of the worst QB performances I've seen just didnt sit we'll back then. Those were 3 chances to show he can lead them to a berth. It didnt happen.
Yeah. I get it. Eli Manning was handed the keys to a 5-4 team his first season. Then lost 6 out of the last 7. Totally obvious that guy could never lead anyone to a berth.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:04 AM   #270
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They would've clinched a playoff berth winning one of those 3 games = most important of the year.
They would've clinched a playoff berth with ANY of the others too...

I'll be exiting this conversation now. Definitely don't think your POV on this matter even slightly approaches the reality of taking a 1-4 team that just picked #2 overall to the playoffs and eviscerating the #1 defense in the league.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:04 AM   #271
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Yeah. I get it. Eli Manning was handed the keys to a 5-4 team his first season. Then lost 6 out of the last 7. Totally obvious that guy could never lead anyone to a berth.
You aren't comparing Eli's mechanics with Tebow's are you? I don't think they ever put Eli in punt protection.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:06 AM   #272
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They would've clinched a playoff berth with ANY of the others too...
Ya they could've. But they didnt. Making the last 3 games the most important. It's not hard to see that. Had they won any game before those 3, those 3 games become meaningless. Since they didnt, they become important. Get it?


Are there any "must win" games in September? Sure all games are important, but "must win" games are MOST important.

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Old 10-10-2012, 09:08 AM   #273
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You aren't comparing Eli's mechanics with Tebow's are you? I don't think they ever put Eli in punt protection.
Mechanics are nice and all, but that first season's QBR of 55 tells you what you need to know. Eli sucked balls his first season. Badly.

And he'd get ragdolled in punt protection. It'd be nice to have a backup QB athletic enough to contribute. But I forget. Brock gettin' pine splinters in his ass is the best thing that ever happened to the Denver Broncos.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:09 AM   #274
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Ya they could've. But they didnt. Making the last 3 games the most important. It's not hard to see that. Had they won any game before those 3, those 3 games become meaningless. Since they didnt, they become important. Get it?
Those games only become "important" in your eyes because of his win streak before hand.

This "important" BS is something 100% subjective that YOU are injecting into the discussion.

Again, I'm leaving. You're neither worth my time nor intelligent and just want to hate who you want to hate.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:10 AM   #275
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Those games only become "important" in your eyes because of his win streak before hand.

This "important" BS is something 100% subjective that YOU are injecting into the discussion.

Again, I'm leaving. You're neither worth my time nor intelligent and just want to hate who you want to hate.
Nobody is telling you to converse with me. I'm not holding you back from leaving. Yet you keep posting. Nothing worse than seeing someone announce an exit more than once.
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