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Old 10-04-2012, 06:52 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by houghtam View Post
How dare you.

How.

Dare.

You.



AWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOlickitOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
^ This
AAAWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

In all seriousness though, he looked pretty good on run stuffing and I think had more to do on the near safety then fontaine is giving him credit for.

I don't think he was a stand out but I don't think he had any sort of lack of performance warranting a thread.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:59 AM   #52
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Dont'a Hightower is looking pretty good. I'm not sayin'...
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:13 AM   #53
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6 point yep our hole D sucked....
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:13 AM   #54
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The last Defensive Tackle to generate any pass rush in a Broncos uniform was...?
Maa Tanuvasa?
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:14 AM   #55
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Dont'a Hightower is looking pretty good. I'm not sayin'...
3-4 LB vs a 4-3 DT/DE?
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:48 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by fontaine View Post
Thanks, I must have missed that thread, will check it out.

Relentless is fine. What gets you penetration and collapsing the pocket inside is a great first step that allows the DT to get good leverage and then use his technique/bull rush etc.

I just didn't see that against Oakland. Because he was slower off the snap, OL got under his pads and didn't let him get free.

I'll rewatch the Pats game (unless we get completely massacred) to see if plays different.
Wolfe was never the quickest off the snap, it was the same in college. I tried to keep an eye on him in the Atlanta game and I liked what I saw from him in that game, he wasn't quick off the snap but he had good control of the offensive line and I noticed that they double teamed him on many occations when he was on the inside. He does struggle with double teams in passing situations and gets completely locked down.

I think Wolfe will end up playing full time inside at some point, I think his tenacity and effort will go a long way and his pure physical power is not to be underestimated. If Del Rio and Nunnely can coach up his first step so he gets more quickness I think he can be a stud.

I must admit that secretly the DL I think has the most promise is Malik Jackson - I saw him get several plays on defense against the Raiders and I think he has a ton of promise as a UT or power end - he is a physical specimen like you will rarely see and once he gets some stability and coaching he will be a beast.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:57 AM   #57
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Maa Tanuvasa?
Jumpy Geathers
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:59 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by DBroncos4life View Post
3-4 LB vs a 4-3 DT/DE?
it's a no-win argument here, had we taken anything but a DT we would never hear the end of that either
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:00 AM   #59
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IAOFM's take:

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Wolfe didn’t have a lot of stats against Oakland - in great part because they tended to run their plays away from him - but he redirected the runner or passer on several plays, helping Doom/Miller to gain more pressure. He did add some of his own, and nearly notched a tackle for loss on a Darren McFadden run.
http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...rs-2012-week-4
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:08 AM   #60
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Jumpy Geathers
Jumpy's forklift pass rush move is the stuff of pure ledgend.
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:11 AM   #61
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Wolfe was never the quickest off the snap, it was the same in college. I tried to keep an eye on him in the Atlanta game and I liked what I saw from him in that game, he wasn't quick off the snap but he had good control of the offensive line and I noticed that they double teamed him on many occations when he was on the inside. He does struggle with double teams in passing situations and gets completely locked down.

I think Wolfe will end up playing full time inside at some point, I think his tenacity and effort will go a long way and his pure physical power is not to be underestimated. If Del Rio and Nunnely can coach up his first step so he gets more quickness I think he can be a stud.

I must admit that secretly the DL I think has the most promise is Malik Jackson - I saw him get several plays on defense against the Raiders and I think he has a ton of promise as a UT or power end - he is a physical specimen like you will rarely see and once he gets some stability and coaching he will be a beast.
This is exactly what I have conveyed. I want to see Malik at strong side DE and Wolfe inside!
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:20 AM   #62
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well that sounds familiar
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:29 AM   #63
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What game are you basing this from? Against Oakland Wolfe played more than half of his snaps inside and not at DE.

At times he was lined up at DE against Smith at RT who was a backup to give him a favorable matchup. And he logged the most snaps out of Unrein/Vickerson/Bannan. He wasn't taken off on 3rd downs (unless he was gassed or we switched to a psycho front).

Vickerson generated the most interior pressure and his snaps were limited which I liked. They don't use him as an every down DT and it showed because he was fresh every time he came on the field.
I don't recall seeing him on 3rd downs very much. Maybe I will go back and count, but probably not.

Limiting Wolfe's snaps, where he could be most effective as an inside pass-rusher...was exactly what I had in mind. But, it's probably better for the long term that he is on the field as much as possible. It will help him to gain experience, and to be able to recognize situations that he can turn to his advantage.

Of the 6 players who have played DT for the Broncos this season, Wolfe is the only one to have generated a sack. We need to collapse the pocket against Brady...hopefully JDR figures out a way to do that, without leaving the Defensive backfield vulnerable.
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:31 AM   #64
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Jumpy's forklift pass rush move is the stuff of pure ledgend.
He was terrific the 1996 season, then he had a season/career ending injury in the preseason of the 97 season.
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:35 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Rabb View Post
it's a no-win argument here, had we taken anything but a DT we would never hear the end of that either
The Broncos could have easily selected Hightower at #25, and used the Osweiler pick (plus a 4th) to trade up to select Wolfe at #36.

The 2012 draft was loaded with talent in the first 2 rounds. The Patriots drafted 3 Defensive starters, and the Broncos selected 1. Dropping down, and losing value in trades was not what I had in mind.
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:16 AM   #66
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The NFL's drug testing policies are tougher than previously thought. Still working on a way around it.
Elaborate, please.

Does Wolfe have a history of testing positive?
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:23 AM   #67
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... seriously it took me 30 seconds to figure it out. You know I think you would be a much happier person if you just Let Shanahan go. Just come out thank him for the 2 SBS and wish him the best.

Come on Star, you can do it!!!
actually I have done the thanks riutine in almost every post I make about him.. but past those rings almost 15 years ago and him being a damned fine OC, that was it..

Yet loads of morons still think he walks on water.. just never understood why, after the facts are on the table..

6 of 41 round 1-3 picks resigned most of the rest were cut , allowed to leave in FA because we were out of money or traded by the third TC..

that is for those that are math challenged 15% of what most good to great teams build their foundations of the teams with top one hundred players in each draft..

You can occasionally hit on players after round three that do more than play special teams or make good back up players with.. and All teams do it Brady, most of NYG DL. but for the most part if you look at the super studs in the NFL they are top three picks if not top four.. which still equates to top 125 picks..

but the absolute crap he took on day one and that was 1-3 for most of his career in DEN just set the team back each year just a bit more..

While NE was building after our SB teams, same with BAL and SAN we were regressing because of not having the cash to resign players like heyward and keep pryce, Anderson, atwater, reagor, kennedy, meyers and tehre was one other DL guy about the same time as heyward name escapes me.. We could not keep these guys because because once mikey blew DAFTING Nash, Lelie, foster, middlebrooks, watts, and at least not clarette he had to dumpster dive for washed up, mercenaries that for the most part were not worth 50% of what they got paid..

look at those players and tell me he did not hurt this team every time he touched a player pick..Yes he got lucky a few times with later round picks but most of them were earlier in his career here in DEN..

It took me a few years of defending the moke, until I really looked at what was happening, he'd keep the top 3 picks through 2 Training camps citing injury or they just need more time, during the third camp for most of them he quietly cut them loose.. Most never started on any other team and some never played again in the NFL.. that is not what you expect even though it is a crap shoot, but the good teams are much better than mikeys 15%..

While we won a lot of games while he was here, when it really counted the talent level he kept, just could not compete with playoff teams.

Thus the 1 win in the playoffs without John and company.. and for the most part we got our asses kicked in the other losses, I do not remember a close game in any of them..

SO do you understand my disdain for him? Great OC but lousy at the rest of his job description and frankly not sure that Kubes may have been propping him up those last years as OC..
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:23 AM   #68
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Elaborate, please.

Does Wolfe have a history of testing positive?
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:25 AM   #69
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I think if the Broncos give Brady the 'Carson Palmer treatment' they'll set a league record in fines assessed against them.
Yeah, but it would be worth it to see Brady cry.
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:14 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
The Broncos could have easily selected Hightower at #25, and used the Osweiler pick (plus a 4th) to trade up to select Wolfe at #36.

The 2012 draft was loaded with talent in the first 2 rounds. The Patriots drafted 3 Defensive starters, and the Broncos selected 1. Dropping down, and losing value in trades was not what I had in mind.
Pats NEEDED way more help then Denver did on D.
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:57 PM   #71
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actually I have done the thanks riutine in almost every post I make about him.. but past those rings almost 15 years ago and him being a damned fine OC, that was it..

Yet loads of morons still think he walks on water.. just never understood why, after the facts are on the table..

6 of 41 round 1-3 picks resigned most of the rest were cut , allowed to leave in FA because we were out of money or traded by the third TC..

that is for those that are math challenged 15% of what most good to great teams build their foundations of the teams with top one hundred players in each draft..

You can occasionally hit on players after round three that do more than play special teams or make good back up players with.. and All teams do it Brady, most of NYG DL. but for the most part if you look at the super studs in the NFL they are top three picks if not top four.. which still equates to top 125 picks..

but the absolute crap he took on day one and that was 1-3 for most of his career in DEN just set the team back each year just a bit more..

While NE was building after our SB teams, same with BAL and SAN we were regressing because of not having the cash to resign players like heyward and keep pryce, Anderson, atwater, reagor, kennedy, meyers and tehre was one other DL guy about the same time as heyward name escapes me.. We could not keep these guys because because once mikey blew DAFTING Nash, Lelie, foster, middlebrooks, watts, and at least not clarette he had to dumpster dive for washed up, mercenaries that for the most part were not worth 50% of what they got paid..

look at those players and tell me he did not hurt this team every time he touched a player pick..Yes he got lucky a few times with later round picks but most of them were earlier in his career here in DEN..

It took me a few years of defending the moke, until I really looked at what was happening, he'd keep the top 3 picks through 2 Training camps citing injury or they just need more time, during the third camp for most of them he quietly cut them loose.. Most never started on any other team and some never played again in the NFL.. that is not what you expect even though it is a crap shoot, but the good teams are much better than mikeys 15%..

While we won a lot of games while he was here, when it really counted the talent level he kept, just could not compete with playoff teams.

Thus the 1 win in the playoffs without John and company.. and for the most part we got our asses kicked in the other losses, I do not remember a close game in any of them..

SO do you understand my disdain for him? Great OC but lousy at the rest of his job description and frankly not sure that Kubes may have been propping him up those last years as OC..
Dude. Form a support group, you sound like a jilted high school girl. Im all for being upset in the moment, but you are clearly living in a Denver past that does not exist anymore. Let it go.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:13 PM   #72
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For comparison, here's JJ Watt's stats from his rookie year:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits...r/2011/jj-watt

Here's Wolfe's so far:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits...64/derek-wolfe

I believe Wolfe has some STF's and STFY's (stuffs and stuff yards) that ESPN isn't giving him credit for. I suppose I may be homering here, but Watt's first four games weren't much better than Wolfe's. Heck, after 8 games Watt had 26 tackles and 2 sacks, Wolfe has 10 tackles and a sack after 4 games. Not bad for a rookie that's moving all over the DL.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:15 PM   #73
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Pats NEEDED way more help then Denver did on D.
A playmaker at MLB would be nice right about now. I guess the Broncos can mortgage the 2013 draft to trade up for Teo.

The next elite MLB to come on the scene, and the Broncos better do what it takes to get him. MLB has been a weakness for the Broncos since Al Wilson retired...that was 7 years ago.

Teo and a DT signing (like Soliai) would give the Broncos Defense what they need to compete for a SB.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:15 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
Wolfe was never the quickest off the snap, it was the same in college. I tried to keep an eye on him in the Atlanta game and I liked what I saw from him in that game, he wasn't quick off the snap but he had good control of the offensive line and I noticed that they double teamed him on many occations when he was on the inside. He does struggle with double teams in passing situations and gets completely locked down.

I think Wolfe will end up playing full time inside at some point, I think his tenacity and effort will go a long way and his pure physical power is not to be underestimated. If Del Rio and Nunnely can coach up his first step so he gets more quickness I think he can be a stud.

I must admit that secretly the DL I think has the most promise is Malik Jackson - I saw him get several plays on defense against the Raiders and I think he has a ton of promise as a UT or power end - he is a physical specimen like you will rarely see and once he gets some stability and coaching he will be a beast.
Yeah Jackson was used in half a dozen or so snaps, mostly when we switched to psycho fronts but he also lined up in a standard front some in the 2nd half.

Too little a sample size to tell much but it's encouraging that he's even on the active roster and getting at least some playing time.
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:58 PM   #75
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1st drive:
1. RDT - double-teamed, play went opposite way
2. RDE - slight penetration, play went opposite way
3. LDT - got past his man, converging on QB before the throw
4. RDE - bull-rushed LT straight towards QB, collapsing pocket made Palmer rush his throw
5. LDE - effectively sealed the edge on a run play that went up the middle
6. RDT - 3rd and 5 - double-teamed, Palmer had to throw the ball away from pressure by Dumervil

2nd drive:
1. RDE - unblocked, play went to the other side
2. RDT - screen pass Wolfe only DL in pursuit of ball carrier
3. RDT - triple-teamed
4. LDE - double-teamed, gets penetration into the backfield forcing McFaddon cut-back, holding called on LG
5. RDT - ballcarrier runs directly through gap between Wolfe and Miller, Woodyard missed the tackle on the LOS
6. LDT - double-teamed, allowing Mike Adams to come untouched around the left-side, resulting in long bomb incompletion where Denaryius Moore had Bailey beat
7. 3rd and 12 (Wolfe not in) - Psycho front blitz

3rd drive:
1. LDT - Wolfe beats the RT, and makes contact with the ballcarrier 3 yards behind the LOS (on the 1/2 yard line)...tackling him in the endzone
2. RDT - LT is effective in stopping Wolfe
3. LDT - 3rd and 2 - complete jailbreak by the Defense...ballcarrier almost picks up 1st down after dodging entire Broncos D.

4th drive:
1. LDE - run to opposite side
2. RDE - double-teamed, Palmer is pressured by Dumervil
3. RDE - 3rd and 2 - double-teamed, play-action fake where Palmer rolls out to the right...being belted by Dumervil, leaving his arm bloody
4. LDE - double-teamed driving both OL into the backfield 3 yards, causing McFaddon to cut back for 1 yard-gain
5. RDT - slight driving penetration, Palmer completes 37 yard bomb with perfect coverage by Porter
6. LDE - Audible by Palmer in I-formation to run over LG. I think he changed it to run away from Wolfe. Minimal gain.
7. (Wolfe not in)
8. 3rd and 3 - (Wolfe not in)

End of Half

5th drive:
1. RDT - slight outside pressure, Palmer throws it away with perfect coverage by Bailey
2. RDT - run play away from Wolfe, over right side, picks up 5 yards
3. RDT - 3rd and 5 - double-teamed, slight inside pressure, with pocket collapsing, completion short of 1st down

6th drive:
1. RDT - double-teamed, screen pass is snuffed out to the right for a loss of 4
2. RDT - triple-teamed, still manages to pressure Palmer, forcing a long incompletion
3. 3rd and 14 (Wolfe not in) - Palmer calls a time-out facing psycho front
4. 3rd and 14 (Wolfe not in) - Adams drops sure int
5. blocked punt

7th drive:
1. LDT (in 5 front) - running play over LG for minimal gain
2. RDT - running play over RT for 5
3. RDT - 3rd and 2 - double-teamed, jail-break on left side, Miller tackles runner for a loss

8th drive:
1. RDT - Wolfe beats the LG on the outside forcing Palmer to step up and shovel pass for a 1-yard loss
2. RDT - triple-teamed (actually beats it), but Unrein is allowed to run free towards Palmer, causing him to throw the ball into the ground.
3. 3rd and 11 (Wolfe not in) - Psycho front, delay of game on Offense.
4. 3rd and 16 (Wolfe not in) - Psycho front, incompletion

9th drive:
1. RDT - Wolfe get's good pressure as entire pocket collapses around Palmer resulting in incompletion
2. RDT - double-teamed, Palmer gets 1st first down of 2nd half
3. RDT - double-teamed, Woodyard also slips double-team for the sack
4. (Wolfe not in) - Psycho front, Palmer hog-tied and body slammed by Von Miller
5. LDE - 3rd and 12 - Psycho front, Wolfe rushes up the middle, screen play for a loss

10th drive:
1. RDT - double-teamed, Palmer hit again by Miller
2. RDT - Psycho front, his assignment is to stay back and play the middle of the field
3. RDT - 3rd and 10 - double-teamed
4. LDT - 4th down - double-teamed, blitz, Palmer hit again
5. LDT - double-teamed, run for 13
6. LDT - forces false start of RG
7. (Wolfe not in) - Psycho front, pressured, Palmer throws it away
8. (Wolfe not in) - Psycho front, 1st down
9. (Wolfe not in) - Psycho front, incomplete, roughing the passer Ayers
10. RDE - Psycho front, Wolfe drops back into coverage
11. RDE - double-teamed, Dumervil has a strip sack of Palmer from the left side
12. RDT - 3rd and 18 - pass no gain
13. (Wolfe not in) - 4th down...game over

Last edited by pricejj; 10-04-2012 at 10:19 PM..
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