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Old 10-03-2012, 09:03 PM   #26
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All I know is after watching the game a second time, and sober this time, this is by far the best overall effort by both the offense & defense so far.

But concerning the defense, I was especially impressed with the constant pressure put on by the Dline. Palmer was able to throw the ball away in the 1st half before pressure got to him, but in the 2nd half, they pounded him mercilessly. There was a reason Dumerville looked like the Dumerville we were waiting for, and that is because the rest of the line, including Wolfe, were doing their job.
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:26 PM   #27
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All I know is after watching the game a second time, and sober this time, this is by far the best overall effort by both the offense & defense so far.

But concerning the defense, I was especially impressed with the constant pressure put on by the Dline. Palmer was able to throw the ball away in the 1st half before pressure got to him, but in the 2nd half, they pounded him mercilessly. There was a reason Dumerville looked like the Dumerville we were waiting for, and that is because the rest of the line, including Wolfe, were doing their job.
Finally an astute comment..

anyone that has expected Wolf to be the total answer to our woeful DL performance since almost forever and are pissing and moaning about need to understand he was not a top ten pick..

the rebuild is on and they are getting long term players that will come to work and do their job and that is to stop the run, put some pressure up the middle and occasionally get a sack or two from the spot he was drafted for BUT not ready to play..

So isolating him only and expecting him to be the total answer is silly at best.. He is a grinder, not a greyhound.. he will always be there beating up on someone.. That was why he was drafted.. to never give up..
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:38 PM   #28
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Wolfe does not have the speed to generate pressure on the QB from the edge, he is not a speed-rusher.

Wolfe is 300 lbs., with quick feet, grappling skills, a non-stop motor, and an ability to collapse the pocket. Why JDR chooses to place him at strongside DE is a mystery to me. Every single one of his sacks in the NFL has came from the UT position.

Derek Wolfe does not have the skills to be a Robert Mathis, he has the skills to be a one-gapping UT in an even front, or a 3-4 DE.

Now, JDR is taking Wolfe out on 3rd down, which is a big mistake. He was specifically drafted to generate pass rush from the interior DL. Both Vickerson and Bannan have ZERO sacks.

Wolfe should be starting UT, and Brooking should be starting MLB. Until then, prepare your anus.
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:42 PM   #29
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Wolfe does not have the speed to generate pressure on the QB from the edge, he is not a speed-rusher.

Wolfe is 300 lbs., with quick feet, grappling skills, a non-stop motor, and an ability to collapse the pocket. Why JDR chooses to place him at strongside DE is a mystery to me. Every single one of his sacks in the NFL has came from the UT position.

Derek Wolfe does not have the skills to be a Robert Mathis, he has the skills to be a one-gapping UT in an even front, or a 3-4 DE.

Now, JDR is taking Wolfe out on 3rd down, which is a big mistake. He was specifically drafted to generate pass rush from the interior DL. Both Vickerson and Bannan have ZERO sacks.

Wolfe should be starting UT, and Brooking should be starting MLB. Until then, prepare your anus.
when did they say they drafted him specifically to pass rush from the interior?
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:48 PM   #30
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BTW...Red Bryant has had little to no statistical impact the way he is currently utilized.

Wolfe is a much better athlete, and slightly outperforming Bryant, but I still wouldn't expect him to speed-rush around an RT.

Hopefully JDR has a plan to generate pressure from the interior DL against the Patriots. Vickerson and Bannan ain't gonna get it done. Sure the DL is good against stopping the run, but the Texans game has already shown that crappy MLB play nullifies any DL advantage we may have gained in the run game.
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:49 PM   #31
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I'm pretty sure the staff don't expect Wolfe to be a speed rusher. He is going to end up as a DT, not much doubt in my mind about that.

I'd imagine the reason he's playing a lot of snaps as a DE is that it's very difficult for a rookie to play as a DT and be effective right away. I'd imagine they're still coaching him up, working on his technique. He'll see less double teams on the outside and should be very stout against the run out there.

Bannan and Vickerson aren't getting sacks and they likely never will but they're doing a great job so far against the run. In time we hope Wolfe can do that too while also adding more of a pass rush, but for now I've no problem with them moving him around and using him in a few different ways.
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:50 PM   #32
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Wolfe does not have the speed to generate pressure on the QB from the edge, he is not a speed-rusher.

Wolfe is 300 lbs., with quick feet, grappling skills, a non-stop motor, and an ability to collapse the pocket. Why JDR chooses to place him at strongside DE is a mystery to me. Every single one of his sacks in the NFL has came from the UT position.

Derek Wolfe does not have the skills to be a Robert Mathis, he has the skills to be a one-gapping UT in an even front, or a 3-4 DE.

Now, JDR is taking Wolfe out on 3rd down, which is a big mistake. He was specifically drafted to generate pass rush from the interior DL. Both Vickerson and Bannan have ZERO sacks.

Wolfe should be starting UT, and Brooking should be starting MLB. Until then, prepare your anus.
as for Wolf playing DT it takes time to learn those skills eventually he will be there.. few if any DT start and excell in their rookie years..

they see his passion for the game and DE happens to be a weak spot as we speak so he is getting time on the field opposed to setting on the bench..

almost any moron can come in at DE and play it fairly well DT is a bit different takes experience and right now they have more experienced guys to play there..

His time will come..
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:00 PM   #33
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I'm pretty sure the staff don't expect Wolfe to be a speed rusher. He is going to end up as a DT, not much doubt in my mind about that.

I'd imagine the reason he's playing a lot of snaps as a DE is that it's very difficult for a rookie to play as a DT and be effective right away. I'd imagine they're still coaching him up, working on his technique. He'll see less double teams on the outside and should be very stout against the run out there.

Bannan and Vickerson aren't getting sacks and they likely never will but they're doing a great job so far against the run. In time we hope Wolfe can do that too while also adding more of a pass rush, but for now I've no problem with them moving him around and using him in a few different ways.
great response considering you beat me to the same conclusion by a minute or so..

I think JDR like his big fat assed DT/NT to stay at home and stop the run and so far even after facing some of the best runners #4,15 and 25 in the NFL we are #9 on run defense..

That is refreshing something that we have been weak at for VERY long time..

and frankly that is without a strong MLB or safety group.. which means it is Almost all up front by the DL defending the LOS.. Not allowing OG/OC to get out to the second level..

Who on here was not afraid of Mc Fadden running the ball up our ass all day on Sunday?.. If anyone says they were not concerned they are lying..
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:03 PM   #34
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I'I'd imagine the reason he's playing a lot of snaps as a DE is that it's very difficult for a rookie to play as a DT and be effective right away. I'd imagine they're still coaching him up, working on his technique. He'll see less double teams on the outside and should be very stout against the run out there.
True, but Wolfe has already shown he can be effective at DT. Time is of the essence. It's Patriots week...the Broncos entire offseason has been in preparation for this game.

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almost any moron can come in at DE and play it fairly well DT is a bit different takes experience and right now they have more experienced guys to play there..

His time will come..
Once again, you're right. I just want to see Brady getting the Carson Palmer treatment, if you know what I mean. By any means necessary.
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:10 PM   #35
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True, but Wolfe has already shown he can be effective at DT. Time is of the essence. It's Patriots week...the Broncos entire offseason has been in preparation for this game.



Once again, you're right. I just want to see Brady getting the Carson Palmer treatment, if you know what I mean. By any means necessary.
Rookies in the middle make mistakes, very few rookie DTs start and those that do are normally top 5 picks.. Huge difference in skill level with them and Wolf..

A year from now hey unless we come up with another alternative to him at DT if he is not playing then hell I'll be concerned..

Sometimes having that guy that can wreak havoc from anywhere on the DL is what I'm hoping for.. that the opposing OC can not game plan from stopping him from one spot alone..

Yes I know it is NE/Brady week. While I want to win this one I think it is going to take more than a rookie DT playing to make a difference..

Hopefully he will be just one piece to the puzzle..
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:16 PM   #36
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Wolfe does not have the speed to generate pressure on the QB from the edge, he is not a speed-rusher.

Wolfe is 300 lbs., with quick feet, grappling skills, a non-stop motor, and an ability to collapse the pocket. Why JDR chooses to place him at strongside DE is a mystery to me. Every single one of his sacks in the NFL has came from the UT position.

Derek Wolfe does not have the skills to be a Robert Mathis, he has the skills to be a one-gapping UT in an even front, or a 3-4 DE.

Now, JDR is taking Wolfe out on 3rd down, which is a big mistake. He was specifically drafted to generate pass rush from the interior DL. Both Vickerson and Bannan have ZERO sacks.

Wolfe should be starting UT, and Brooking should be starting MLB. Until then, prepare your anus.
They place him at DE in running situations. On running downs you would rather have Bannan and Vickerson in the middle. He is placed at DE so he can be a great run stopping DE. But yes, in passing situations it is better if he is at DT.
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:20 PM   #37
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Denver is always the worst with this. Shanahsn too. It's always -" lets try and get a steal to prove how smart we are" instead of just taking the best player available. They think- lets take the undersized / motor guy instead of the immature specimen. It's cost us.

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Old 10-03-2012, 10:21 PM   #38
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True, but Wolfe has already shown he can be effective at DT. Time is of the essence. It's Patriots week...the Broncos entire offseason has been in preparation for this game.



Once again, you're right. I just want to see Brady getting the Carson Palmer treatment, if you know what I mean. By any means necessary.
I think if the Broncos give Brady the 'Carson Palmer treatment' they'll set a league record in fines assessed against them.
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:24 PM   #39
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Denver is always the worst with this. Tanahan too. It's always -" lets try and get a steal to prove how smart we are" instead of just taking the best player available.
Fixed that for you..

but in defense of him, after he fubared a couple of drafts and then a few more high profile UFA.. that was when he went into full court DAFTS..

the last guy he drafted that was BPA was Wilson.. IMO

everyone else after him pretty much was Dafted because of need..
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:30 PM   #40
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Fixed that for you..

but in defense of him, after he fubared a couple of drafts and then a few more high profile UFA.. that was when he went into full court DAFTS..

the last guy he drafted that was BPA was Wilson.. IMO

everyone else after him pretty much was Dafted because of need..
How old are you? You must be pretty old. I just can't see someone who has reached his 30's. 40's and 50's constantly changing all their posts to read. Tanahan

I mean, that is a lot of work. We get it you don't like Shanahan but you are borderline stalker on the issue.
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:58 PM   #41
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How old are you? You must be pretty old. I just can't see someone who has reached his 30's. 40's and 50's constantly changing all their posts to read. Tanahan

I mean, that is a lot of work. We get it you don't like Shanahan but you are borderline stalker on the issue.
Actually only takes a second or two.. and it is tan (DarkOrange) not brown..

but good try.. ahahahahaha

BTW the stalkers are named dream, reQuim and LABF..
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:07 PM   #42
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Actually only takes a second or two.. and it is tan (DarkOrange) not brown..

but good try.. ahahahahaha

BTW the stalkers are named dream, reQuim and LABF..
... seriously it took me 30 seconds to figure it out. You know I think you would be a much happier person if you just Let Shanahan go. Just come out thank him for the 2 SBS and wish him the best.

Come on Star, you can do it!!!
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:12 PM   #43
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:32 PM   #44
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when did they say they drafted him specifically to pass rush from the interior?
The last Defensive Tackle to generate any pass rush in a Broncos uniform was...?

After the season, John Fox said that the area that needed the most improvement for the Broncos was pass rush from the interior DL.

Derek Wolfe had 9.5 sacks as a DT last year, and was the Broncos first pick in the draft.

Throughout preseason, and before Warren was hurt, Wolfe played UT in obvious passing situations.

Connect the dots.
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:39 AM   #45
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well in actuallity he did not say teh sky was falling..

he said

IMO that sounds like chicken little..
I don't really care about opinions. Yours or what you think of mine.

I'm looking for what the film in the trenches tells me. I didn't watch him specifically in the first three weeks and wanted to know what others saw based on his play.
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:47 AM   #46
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Fontaine, thank you for the observations and the write up. It's ashame you can't share your thoughts and have a constructive talk on here, without being told this is a sky is falling thread.

I posted a thread a few weeks ago called problems and solutions and offered a very similar analysis. Wolfe is not explosive off his first step, he doesn't have great technique yet.. But he is relentless! I understand the importance of having a run stopping DE on the strong side. This allows Miller to come off the edge in our 4-3 Under Look. He has the Red Bryant DE role from Seattle in their similar scheme. Understanding our scheme and player roles, I would rather see Malik play that DE role. He is stout against the run and more explosive as a pass rusher as evidence from pre season, Jackson seemed to be everywhere!

I could understand Ayers in a rotation with Jackson to get him accommodated to the speed of the game and transition him to an NFL player. Wolfe would be better suited to play UT with an impressive Vickerson playing the NT. Wolfe's relentlessness would allow him to use his natural abilities from the interior, and his weaknesses would not be exposed as they are on the edge.
Thanks, I must have missed that thread, will check it out.

Relentless is fine. What gets you penetration and collapsing the pocket inside is a great first step that allows the DT to get good leverage and then use his technique/bull rush etc.

I just didn't see that against Oakland. Because he was slower off the snap, OL got under his pads and didn't let him get free.

I'll rewatch the Pats game (unless we get completely massacred) to see if plays different.

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Old 10-04-2012, 02:51 AM   #47
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Wolfe does not have the speed to generate pressure on the QB from the edge, he is not a speed-rusher.

Wolfe is 300 lbs., with quick feet, grappling skills, a non-stop motor, and an ability to collapse the pocket. Why JDR chooses to place him at strongside DE is a mystery to me. Every single one of his sacks in the NFL has came from the UT position.

Derek Wolfe does not have the skills to be a Robert Mathis, he has the skills to be a one-gapping UT in an even front, or a 3-4 DE.

Now, JDR is taking Wolfe out on 3rd down, which is a big mistake. He was specifically drafted to generate pass rush from the interior DL. Both Vickerson and Bannan have ZERO sacks.

Wolfe should be starting UT, and Brooking should be starting MLB. Until then, prepare your anus.
What game are you basing this from? Against Oakland Wolfe played more than half of his snaps inside and not at DE.

At times he was lined up at DE against Smith at RT who was a backup to give him a favorable matchup. And he logged the most snaps out of Unrein/Vickerson/Bannan. He wasn't taken off on 3rd downs (unless he was gassed or we switched to a psycho front).

Vickerson generated the most interior pressure and his snaps were limited which I liked. They don't use him as an every down DT and it showed because he was fresh every time he came on the field.

Last edited by fontaine; 10-04-2012 at 03:02 AM..
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:16 AM   #48
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When it's all said and done, I guess the conclusion is that Wolfe is a rookie, and plays like one at times. Clearly, he hasn't figured out some of the stunts and techniques he will need to provide a push from the interior. Still, the skill and energy seems evident and I think everyone has very high hopes for this guy. Just one opinion, but I think he will turn out to be the best defensive pick for the Broncos in a long, long time.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:01 AM   #49
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Thanks, I must have missed that thread, will check it out.

Relentless is fine. What gets you penetration and collapsing the pocket inside is a great first step that allows the DT to get good leverage and then use his technique/bull rush etc.

I just didn't see that against Oakland. Because he was slower off the snap, OL got under his pads and didn't let him get free.

I'll rewatch the Pats game (unless we get completely massacred) to see if plays different.
I agree with your analysis but am cautiously hopeful that some of this is due to the learning curve of DL play.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:45 AM   #50
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