Rahim Moore is Awful

[Dedhed]

Originally Posted by Mediator12

I hope the kid gets it, but I am not happy with his progress to date.

I don't know how you can make this statement. Given where he was at this time last year, his progress is impressive. He's not to the point of being a Pro Bowler by any means, but his progress in a year's time is undeniable.

Last year he was completely lost. This year he's still occasionally late to react, but he's also been around the ball much more, been out of position much less, and has come close to making game changing plays on a handful of plays.

He was a disappointment last year, but his growth curve has to make you lean towards being optimistic.

[Mediator12]

Originally Posted by Dedhed

I don't know how you can make this statement. Given where he was at this time last year, his progress is impressive. He's not to the point of being a Pro Bowler by any means, but his progress in a year's time is undeniable.

Last year he was completely lost. This year he's still occasionally late to react, but he's also been around the ball much more, been out of position much less, and has come close to making game changing plays on a handful of plays.

He was a disappointment last year, but his growth curve has to make you lean towards being optimistic.

Its not impressive, its minimal. He still blows coverages and arrives late to the play design. He is being more analytical and less reactive so he does not make a mistake. However, by doing so, he is not getting the job done at all. Great, he made the tackle 7 yards down the field on the final third and five. However, not making the tackle before the first down or being in position to make the play on the ball is a missed assignment, if the coverage was truly his. Hard to say, I have not looked at it again.

However, that was representative to his play last night. A half step late and a dollar short of getting the job done. Sure, Tony Carter did his best Roc Alexander impression all night long, but Moore is a starter and he was routinely unable to execute his assignments until after the play was made. that is playing below replacement value for a safety.

That is why I am still disappointed with him. You can not second guess all night long as a safety or you will fail to do your job and make plays. Being in the zipcode or making a tackle 7 yards down the field on third and 5 is just not good enough at this level.

[Dedhed]

Originally Posted by Mediator12

Its not impressive, its minimal. He still blows coverages and arrives late to the play design. He is being more analytical and less reactive so he does not make a mistake. However, by doing so, he is not getting the job done at all. Great, he made the tackle 7 yards down the field on the final third and five. However, not making the tackle before the first down or being in position to make the play on the ball is a missed assignment, if the coverage was truly his. Hard to say, I have not looked at it again.

However, that was representative to his play last night. A half step late and a dollar short of getting the job done. Sure, Tony Carter did his best Roc Alexander impression all night long, but Moore is a starter and he was routinely unable to execute his assignments until after the play was made. that is playing below replacement value for a safety.

That is why I am still disappointed with him. You can not second guess all night long as a safety or you will fail to do your job and make plays. Being in the zipcode or making a tackle 7 yards down the field on third and 5 is just not good enough at this level.

I disagree. He played in a shorthanded secondary that held the Falcons, who have perhaps the best WR tandem in the NFL, and a great TE, to 219 yards passing.

He's made huge strides since last season, and is in his second game within a new scheme. He's no where near a finished product, but he has come a long way in a year's time and shown far greater than "minimal" progress.

[Mediator12]

Originally Posted by Dedhed

I disagree. He played in a shorthanded secondary that held the Falcons, who have perhaps the best WR tandem in the NFL, and a great TE, to 219 yards passing.

He's made huge strides since last season, and is in his second game within a new scheme. He's no where near a finished product, but he has come a long way in a year's time and shown far greater than "minimal" progress.

Hey, I am fine with that analysis. It's based on your facts.

I just believe mine more. Until he becomes functional as FS, he will remain disappointing to me. Being almost good enough to start is still not enough progress for me.

[gyldenlove]

Originally Posted by Mediator12

Its not impressive, its minimal. He still blows coverages and arrives late to the play design. He is being more analytical and less reactive so he does not make a mistake. However, by doing so, he is not getting the job done at all. Great, he made the tackle 7 yards down the field on the final third and five. However, not making the tackle before the first down or being in position to make the play on the ball is a missed assignment, if the coverage was truly his. Hard to say, I have not looked at it again.

However, that was representative to his play last night. A half step late and a dollar short of getting the job done. Sure, Tony Carter did his best Roc Alexander impression all night long, but Moore is a starter and he was routinely unable to execute his assignments until after the play was made. that is playing below replacement value for a safety.

That is why I am still disappointed with him. You can not second guess all night long as a safety or you will fail to do your job and make plays. Being in the zipcode or making a tackle 7 yards down the field on third and 5 is just not good enough at this level.

Moore has been the best safety of the two starters this year against the run, he has made several good form tackles close to the line against the run. On the flipside he is lost in pass coverage and often arrives late or fails to close the gap leaving the reciever to make the reception before he arrives on the scene.

He needs to trust his athletic ability more and be a little more reckless some times, but he has definitely improved the run stopping aspect of his game as well as his tackling both of which were suspect last year.

[maher_tyler]

Originally Posted by Mediator12

Hey, I am fine with that analysis. It's based on your facts.

I just believe mine more. Until he becomes functional as FS, he will remain disappointing to me. Being almost good enough to start is still not enough progress for me.

Your being a little to critical imo. I see improvement. With how critical you are, you'd think he's been in the league for 4-5 years. He should have at least 2 ints if he could just hold onto the ball. No better way to get better than some OJT...

[Dedhed]

Originally Posted by Mediator12

Hey, I am fine with that analysis. It's based on your facts.

I just believe mine more. Until he becomes functional as FS, he will remain disappointing to me. Being almost good enough to start is still not enough progress for me.

I agree that he's still a below average NFL safety, but I do believe he's functional; he is starting after all. Coming from last year when he looked hopeless, I can't help but to lean towards being optimistic. Particularly given his upside potential.

[yerner]

not one piece of evidence in this thread yet.

[Beantown Bronco]

Originally Posted by yerner

not one piece of evidence in this thread yet.

Probably because people don't spend hours putting together youtube videos of guys NOT making plays.

[lolcopter]

x-quote for relevance

Originally Posted by ColoradoDarin

Marquand Manuel, Marlon McCree

[TheReverend]

I get more bullish on Rahim Moore with each game

[Mediator12]

Originally Posted by maher_tyler

Your being a little to critical imo. I see improvement. With how critical you are, you'd think he's been in the league for 4-5 years. He should have at least 2 ints if he could just hold onto the ball. No better way to get better than some OJT...

I am not being too critical, I am actually trying to give the kid a break. I routinely look for checks when he makes the play and executes his responsibility. Those checks are fewer than need to be when combined with the minuses.

He is still getting way too many minuses, and not enough checks, let alone pluses. He grades out below replacement value, despite the fact that he has made some better plays when he tackles. That is the one area he has made improvement. He is not missing tackles as much as he did last year. However, he is not making tackles that execute the play and keep the offense off the pace. Therefore, those tackles are normal plays and get a check, not a plus in the grade book.

He has improved one area and still is behind in several more. I do not see any growth in the pass coverage area, in fact I see a lot of regression and self doubt. He has to diagnose better and react instinctively to the situation, down, distance, and route in both run and passing games.

[24champ]

Originally Posted by gyldenlove

Moore has been the best safety of the two starters this year against the run, he has made several good form tackles close to the line against the run. On the flipside he is lost in pass coverage and often arrives late or fails to close the gap leaving the reciever to make the reception before he arrives on the scene.

He needs to trust his athletic ability more and be a little more reckless some times, but he has definitely improved the run stopping aspect of his game as well as his tackling both of which were suspect last year.

People really underrate Moore against the run. There was 1-2 times last night, maybe more, where Moore stopped Turner from breaking loose for a huge gain, possible TD. Huge improvement over last year and once he becomes more well rounded, he will be a really good safety for us.

[bpc]

I think it's fair to be critical of Moore. He sat his whole rookie season after screwing up the first couple games. I think the coaches decided, this kid's head is going to way to fast for his body. Call it his redshirt year. This year is his first real playing time so to expect him to be perfect out the gates is simply too hopeful. He's finally starting this year and I think he's performed OK. Obviously, when you watch the guy he flashes playmaking ability and explosiveness we haven't seen before in our secondary for a long time. He has a good build, and great athletic ability. As Med pointed out, he still a step slow. In fact, I think he's several steps slow but his athletic ability allows him to make up ground more quickly than most safeties. If he can get his mind and body working on the same level, the guy is going to be a heck of a player. Time will tell if he gets it. If he does, i think he could be a damn good safety. Lots of room for improvement this year so far, but that's our whole team. Moore's also gone against two of the better QB's in this league the past two weeks and more than held his own in Big Ben and Matt Ryan. He'll be challenged again against Houston but I feel pretty positive that he will get better as the year goes on. If he does, this defense and team are going to be pretty lethal having a safety with his range playing behind Champ and Porter, along with our pass rush.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by maher_tyler

Your being a little to critical imo. I see improvement. With how critical you are, you'd think he's been in the league for 4-5 years. He should have at least 2 ints if he could just hold onto the ball. No better way to get better than some OJT...

Mediator is right, Rahim is a mental midget out there and is constantly out of position. When he's not out of position he's going for the ESPN highlight big hit instead of a tackle.

Without Dawkins holding his hand he's struggling. Last year the Broncos could fall back on Dawkins, this year, it's all Rahim and he's not doing very good.

[24champ]

Jack Del Rio has been quoted saying Moore is on the right track, doing the right things and that he covers a lot of the field. Obviously the coaches think he's making the progression on the field.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by 24champ

Jack Del Rio has been quoted saying Moore is on the right track, doing the right things and that he covers a lot of the field. Obviously the coaches think he's making the progression on the field.

perhaps, but rarely will a coach speak ill of a player to the press. If there is an issue it will be handled in the film room and on the practice field.

[24champ]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

Mediator is right, Rahim is a mental midget out there and is constantly out of position. When he's not out of position he's going for the ESPN highlight big hit instead of a tackle.

Without Dawkins holding his hand he's struggling. Last year the Broncos could fall back on Dawkins, this year, it's all Rahim and he's not doing very good.

Well...that's completely inaccurate.

He's doing a lot better this year, especially with a full off season which he did not have last year. He's getting better every game. His play against the run has vastly improved, and he's getting really close to making plays, just need to capitalize on them.

You'd think with the pathetic posts in this thread, that Moore got Roc Alexander'd last night.

[24champ]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

perhaps, but rarely will a coach speak ill of a player to the press. If there is an issue it will be handled in the film room and on the practice field.

JDR calls out players when they need to be called out. See: Robert Ayers.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by 24champ

Well...that's completely inaccurate.

He's doing a lot better this year, especially with a full off season which he did not have last year. He's getting better every game. His play against the run has vastly improved, and he's getting really close to making plays, just need to capitalize on them.

You'd think with the pathetic posts in this thread, that Moore got Roc Alexander'd last night.

I've been a "wait and see" poster when it comes to Moore and I'm hopeful he does got better. I think you are right in that he's playing the run aggressively which is great. But I also think he's making a lot of mistakes in coverage. Fact is, it will probably take him much longer to learn coverages and be comfortable with his assignments.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by 24champ

JDR calls out players when they need to be called out. See: Robert Ayers.

I remember he praised Hunter more than he openly criticized Ayers. His glowing remarks about Hunter compared to his luke warm remarks about Ayers is what suprised many people but point taken.

[Bmore Manning]

He's a starter in the NFL, he will be held to a higher standard despite his youth. Sure he has great athleticism and has improved in run support. But on a critical third down, the game is on the line a first down is needed. Yet Moore was not in a position to play for stopping the first down. That's the ball game, the QB isn't going down the field in that situation, that rarely happens! The high percentage play is to get the first or end up punting and killing more clock, not taking a shot down the field risking and incompletion or int. having said that Moore should have driven to anything developing in front of him, yet he was a little late, which is how his play was all night as Med also pointed out.

And this defense that everyone thinks played great, time after time could not get off the field on third down and could not generate pressure.

[Action]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

He's a starter in the NFL, he will be held to a higher standard despite his youth. Sure he has great athleticism and has improved in run support. But on a critical third down, the game is on the line a first down is needed. Yet Moore was not in a position to play for stopping the first down. That's the ball game, the QB isn't going down the field in that situation, that rarely happens! The high percentage play is to get the first or end up punting and killing more clock, not taking a shot down the field risking and incompletion or int. having said that Moore should have driven to anything developing in front of him, yet he was a little late, which is how his play was all night as Med also pointed out.

And this defense that everyone thinks played great, time after time could not get off the field on third down and could not generate pressure.

We are really blaming that last play on Rahim Moore....

It's just sad what some Broncos fans see when they watch games.

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by Action

We are really blaming that last play on Rahim Moore....

It's just sad what some Broncos fans see when they watch games.

It's sad what some don't see.. Take the orange glasses off. I DVR every game and watch play after play.. Who would you like to put the blame on? It was a blown coverage, with confusion off the line of scrimmage after a timeout. Moore was floating around to deep to make a play on anyone pushing for the yard marker. While sole blame does not fall on him, your kidding yourself to think a better safety doesn't drive on the ball and make that play. As I pointed out Ed Reed earlier, there are plenty of safeties who drive to the ball and make the stick.

[Action]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

It's sad what some don't see.. Take the orange glasses off. I DVR every game and watch play after play.. Who would you like to put the blame on? It was a blown coverage, with confusion off the line of scrimmage after a timeout. Moore was floating around to deep to make a play on anyone pushing for the yard marker. While sole blame does not fall on him, your kidding yourself to think a better safety doesn't drive on the ball and make that play. As I pointed out Ed Reed earlier, there are plenty of safeties who drive to the ball and make the stick.

If you can't figure out who the blown coverage was on, then your analysis of anything, let alone Moore being the problem on that play, is completely invalid.

Does a better safety make the play? MAYBE. But no one is saying Moore is an elite Safety.

So if you need to use someone like Ed Reed to make your point, you obviously are completely missing the point of what people are saying.