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Old 09-16-2012, 08:13 PM   #1
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Default QB sliding and getting hit never gets called

Does anyone ever get called for hitting a QB after they go feet first? Why even have the rule? I see Vick go head first, RG3 wasn't sliding today, and now I see Alex Smith go feet first and get a forearm to the face.

Somewhere recently I recall them saying a QB was advised to dive headfirst (maybe RG3 last week?) simply because when you go feet first and get hit, your head smacks into the ground and you have a higher chance of getting hurt. I don't want to see backup QBs playing because they almost always suck so they really need to start enforcing that rule so QBs feel protected enough to slide and make it worth their while.

Kind of a rant but I didn't see a game thread so figured I'd make it one on its own. Am I misinterpreting the rule somehow or am I right in that a clearly important rule is regularly neglected?
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Old 09-16-2012, 08:19 PM   #2
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Yeah, saw it called today in the Vikings game. I think so, at least.

But Smith did just get the old forearm shiver to the dome.
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Old 09-16-2012, 08:21 PM   #3
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it only gets called when you spear them really late or hit them in the head violently or helmet to helmet.

the QB you mention is Christian Ponder. Bill Musgrave told him to slide head first to avoid getting hit.
honestly it also allows you to stretch the ball out and get extra yards. you're considered down once you give yourself up and go feet first and most QB's do so before the first down marker.

Last edited by Lestat; 09-16-2012 at 08:24 PM..
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Old 09-16-2012, 09:00 PM   #4
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it only gets called when you spear them really late or hit them in the head violently or helmet to helmet.

the QB you mention is Christian Ponder. Bill Musgrave told him to slide head first to avoid getting hit.
honestly it also allows you to stretch the ball out and get extra yards. you're considered down once you give yourself up and go feet first and most QB's do so before the first down marker.
Ahh, ok, I knew it was talked about recently. So there's benefits to diving headfirst rather than feetfirst yet diving feetfirst will still get you blasted most of the time. I just think it's bogus.
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Old 09-16-2012, 09:02 PM   #5
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Yeah, saw it called today in the Vikings game. I think so, at least.

But Smith did just get the old forearm shiver to the dome.
I would say over the years, I've probably only seen a player get called for hitting a QB somewhere between a half-dozen and a dozen times. I've probably also seen about that many where a QB slides and doesn't get hit. You'd probably have to Yokozuna drop the guy to actually get a ref to pull out the flag.
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Old 09-16-2012, 09:45 PM   #6
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Vaughn Martin got flagged for it today for hitting Locker late.

Last edited by boltaneer; 09-16-2012 at 09:59 PM.. Reason: Oops, not Ingram.
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Old 09-16-2012, 10:09 PM   #7
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The rule has some verbage about committed defensive players. Most QB's try to milk every yard they can before sliding, and the defenders are already in the middle of making the tackle. Usually it looks a bit worse because they're coming low and end up putting a good lick on the QB. The spirit of the rule is for the QB to get down ahead of immediate danger from the defender and essentially declare himself out of the play.

PFM will routinely slide properly, and he almost never takes a shot because of it.
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Old 09-16-2012, 11:14 PM   #8
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The rule has some verbage about committed defensive players. Most QB's try to milk every yard they can before sliding, and the defenders are already in the middle of making the tackle. Usually it looks a bit worse because they're coming low and end up putting a good lick on the QB. The spirit of the rule is for the QB to get down ahead of immediate danger from the defender and essentially declare himself out of the play.

PFM will routinely slide properly, and he almost never takes a shot because of it.
This.

The more athletic QBs will push for yardage and then eat a hit when they slide.

Peyton Manning slides well before the defender is even close enough to tackle; that is the purpose of the move.

Alex Smith's hit could have been a flag for striking the head -- but it's kind of an awkward thing anyway involving a defender starting low and an offensive player following, much like Moore's helmet to helmet call week one.
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Old 09-16-2012, 11:34 PM   #9
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The rule has some verbage about committed defensive players. Most QB's try to milk every yard they can before sliding, and the defenders are already in the middle of making the tackle. Usually it looks a bit worse because they're coming low and end up putting a good lick on the QB. The spirit of the rule is for the QB to get down ahead of immediate danger from the defender and essentially declare himself out of the play.

PFM will routinely slide properly, and he almost never takes a shot because of it.
If you're sliding when there's noone around, you could just as easily just take a knee and avoid twisting an ankle or something underneath you.

Not trying to be argumentative as you're probably right on why it isn't how I think it should be but I think it should be pretty akin to the running into the kicker levels. Those guys should be making every effort to avoid the QB once he goes into a slide. As is, there's damn near zero protection afforded by it.
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Old 09-17-2012, 04:20 AM   #10
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The quarterbacks push it by waiting until the last minute to slide. Once you've run it in to traffic, you may as well cover up and go down the normal way. Or wait to be tackled (because they just tee off on you when they can see you going down).

The purpose of the slide rule is just so you can end the play out in space, without taking a cheap shot (because in the NFL you're not down just by going down).
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:13 AM   #11
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If you're sliding when there's noone around, you could just as easily just take a knee and avoid twisting an ankle or something underneath you.

Not trying to be argumentative as you're probably right on why it isn't how I think it should be but I think it should be pretty akin to the running into the kicker levels. Those guys should be making every effort to avoid the QB once he goes into a slide. As is, there's damn near zero protection afforded by it.
When guys who are 250 pounds, 200+ pounds and can run 40 yards in 4.5 seconds, its pretty freakin difficult to ask them to stop when the QB slides a yard away from them.
Like others said, QB's tend to slide late, and then these guys are asked to avoid hitting the QB, which they still do but its a lot less than what they could've done to the QB.
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:23 AM   #12
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I have a hard time calling Alex Smith's flop a clear "feet first slide". At best he was about straight up and down, which I see quite a bit of out of QBs that aren't used to scrambling in the middle of the field, where they can't simply run out of bounds and can't decide between going head first or feet first and kind of do some weird in between awkward dive. A good no call IMO.
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:16 AM   #13
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There was one play last night where Stafford wanted a flag but it was one of the most pathetic 'slide' attempts I've ever seen.

If QB's want the bennies of that rule, they need to do it in time to give the defender a chance to lay up. Half the time they basically slide under a tackle and then want a flag for getting hit.

Dumb rule overall. Wouldn't mind seeing it go away. They call late hits on anyone close enough at this point. This rule just muddies the water.
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:00 AM   #14
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There was one play last night where Stafford wanted a flag but it was one of the most pathetic 'slide' attempts I've ever seen.

If QB's want the bennies of that rule, they need to do it in time to give the defender a chance to lay up. Half the time they basically slide under a tackle and then want a flag for getting hit.

Dumb rule overall. Wouldn't mind seeing it go away. They call late hits on anyone close enough at this point. This rule just muddies the water.
But if you take the kicker example, these guys know that they're only allowed to make contact if the ball is touched. If the ball isn't touched, these 300 lb guys instantly become ballerinas and avoid contact. There is absolutely no consideration given to QBs sliding because they know that there's no downside to making the hit. They know it won't be called.
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:17 AM   #15
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I agree that this tends to happen much more with the running Qb's that push for every yard. Can't really blame them, can't really blame the defender for doing his job.

What about the crap with Stafford getting sacked to one knee, then trying to get up and keep the play going? Then, after the missed call, the Lions had to challenge for the "original" sack location. Blame the refs and Stafford for putting himself in danger on that play.

I have no problem with the Alex Smith hit (other than the forearm straight to the helmet/face). The defender could have laid a clean lick on that play, but went a little cheap.
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:11 AM   #16
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There was one play last night where Stafford wanted a flag but it was one of the most pathetic 'slide' attempts I've ever seen.

If QB's want the bennies of that rule, they need to do it in time to give the defender a chance to lay up. Half the time they basically slide under a tackle and then want a flag for getting hit.

Dumb rule overall. Wouldn't mind seeing it go away. They call late hits on anyone close enough at this point. This rule just muddies the water.
Stafford is a little b****.
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:13 PM   #17
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Dumb rule overall. Wouldn't mind seeing it go away. They call late hits on anyone close enough at this point. This rule just muddies the water.
I think it's a really good rule, and the officials do a really good job of enforcing it. It has a clear difference between simply going down: once you slide feet first you are A) down where you BEGAN the slide and B) down. You don't need to be touched and you don't get extra benefits from taking yourself out of the play.

It's a great way to avoid unnecessary shots without giving the offense an extra advantage.
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:38 PM   #18
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I think it's a really good rule, and the officials do a really good job of enforcing it. It has a clear difference between simply going down: once you slide feet first you are A) down where you BEGAN the slide and B) down. You don't need to be touched and you don't get extra benefits from taking yourself out of the play.

It's a great way to avoid unnecessary shots without giving the offense an extra advantage.
I'd rather they just cut the crap and go to college down/contact rules for the QB if that's what they want. If he's down he's down.

Then there's no need for him to prostrate himself in some ridiculous position that only makes him more vulnerable.
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