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Old 09-07-2012, 01:32 PM   #1
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With Saints winning appeal, suspensions are voided as Roger Goodell doesn't have jurisdiction and Stephen Burbank does.

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Old 09-07-2012, 01:34 PM   #2
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Interesting....Ginger Hammer Down!
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:37 PM   #3
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:37 PM   #4
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HELLS YEAH!
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:41 PM   #5
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Cheaters always prosper. Unless you're Tiger Woods.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:43 PM   #6
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Good to see Goodell smacked down.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:44 PM   #7
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I don't ultimately understad the ruling or how dip**** schefter has reported it. So the arbitrator can suspend players but the Commish cannot? That doesn't make sense. Not at all.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:44 PM   #8
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Cheaters always prosper. Unless you're Tiger Woods.
take a look at his sponsorship deals and his wallet. he's prospering just fine
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:45 PM   #9
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Garcia calling Schefter a dip**** is the best pot/kettle scenario we've had on this board in months.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:47 PM   #10
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I don't ultimately understad the ruling or how dip**** schefter has reported it. So the arbitrator can suspend players but the Commish cannot? That doesn't make sense. Not at all.
either has to be conflict of interest due to him being on the NFL side that finds the evidence,administers the judgement and hears the appeal.

or it was found that he didn't have enough evidence to suspend them for the duration that he did.
suspensions should go to a arbitrator anyways. though the dumbass NFLPA should have bargained for that in the CBA. though i wonder if Smith didn't gamble that they could eventually use the legal system if anything crazy broke out due to his legal background.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:51 PM   #11
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either has to be conflict of interest due to him being on the NFL side that finds the evidence,administers the judgement and hears the appeal.

or it was found that he didn't have enough evidence to suspend them for the duration that he did.
suspensions should go to a arbitrator anyways. though the dumbass NFLPA should have bargained for that in the CBA. though i wonder if Smith didn't gamble that they could eventually use the legal system if anything crazy broke out due to his legal background.
I have to agree on the latter.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:54 PM   #12
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I don't ultimately understad the ruling or how dip**** schefter has reported it. So the arbitrator can suspend players but the Commish cannot? That doesn't make sense. Not at all.
Article 14 of the CBA and how it could affect all of the bounty penalties
Posted by whodattn ⋅ Aug 15, 2012 ⋅ 9 Comments

When it comes to the events of Judge Helen G. Berrigan’s courtroom, everyone has been focused on whether or not Jonathan Vilma will get an injunction putting his suspension on hold. While it would be great to see Vilma back with the team and rehabilitating his knee properly, it has gone largely unnoticed how much of an effect Berrigan’s ruling can have.

Much of the talk with regard to who has the power to decide the fate of the players involved centers around Article 14 of the NFL’s Collective Bargaining Agreement. If Berrigan rules that the players took part in a pay-for-performance system rather than pay-to-injure, the discipline would be the responsibility of the system arbitrator, not Commissioner Roger Goodell. As a result, all player suspensions would be immediately wiped out. That’s not the only effect Berrigan’s ruling would have.

Classifying the system in New Orleans as pay-for-performance would mean that the discipline falls under Article 14 of the CBA. The first big change would be that the players can not be suspended at all. Article 14, Section 6, Subsection A deals with the sanctions allowed for violations of the salary cap by players and agents. The most the league could hit the players with is a $500,000 fine and forcing players to surrender whatever money they received as a direct result of the program. So in short the moment Berrigan hands this over to the system arbitrator, the players are back on the field for good. The differences in the players’ sanctions is just the beginning though.

In addition to the changes to the players’ sanctions, Article 14 could be good news for the coaches as well. Well, two of the coaches anyway. As it stands right now, Sean Payton has been suspended for one year with the opportunity to apply for reinstatement at that point and Gregg Williams has been suspended indefinitely with the opportunity to apply for reinstatement after one year. According to Article 14, Section 6, Subsection B (sanctions against clubs and their employees for violations of the salary cap) only allows for a maximum suspension of up to one year and a maximum fine of $500,000. In the case of Sean Payton, this would do away with having to apply for readmission into the league. Technically, the Commissioner couldn’t keep him out according to the CBA. As for Gregg Williams, it would put a definite clock on his time away from the league.

One last thing of interest I came across. Article 14, Section 3 covers System Arbitrator Proceedings. It’s all pretty basic stuff, but it’s the last line of the section that is of particular interest. It reads “Other than as set forth in Article 7, the complaining party shall bear the burden of demonstrating by a clear preponderance of the evidence that the challenged conduct was in violation of such Article.” In other words if Goodell wants punishments handed down, he actually has to prove his case to someone other than himself. Don’t get too excited though because the league’s case will still never see the light of day. According to Article 15, Section 10 which covers confidentiality with regard to the System Arbitrator, nothing other than the decisions will be released to anyone other than the parties involved.

Berrigan’s ruling could have a much broader effect than is being discussed. While this may have started with one man fighting for his reputation, it could result in a measure of redemption for six.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:56 PM   #13
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either has to be conflict of interest due to him being on the NFL side that finds the evidence,administers the judgement and hears the appeal.
Rumor has it Goodell is changing his last name to Dredd.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:56 PM   #14
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Good to see Goodell smacked down.
this, he thinks he is god.
Everyone including football players should get due process.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:58 PM   #15
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Oh great...... now there will be a big bounty on Manning.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:58 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by El Minion View Post
Article 14 of the CBA and how it could affect all of the bounty penalties
Posted by whodattn ⋅ Aug 15, 2012 ⋅ 9 Comments

When it comes to the events of Judge Helen G. Berrigan’s courtroom, everyone has been focused on whether or not Jonathan Vilma will get an injunction putting his suspension on hold. While it would be great to see Vilma back with the team and rehabilitating his knee properly, it has gone largely unnoticed how much of an effect Berrigan’s ruling can have.

Much of the talk with regard to who has the power to decide the fate of the players involved centers around Article 14 of the NFL’s Collective Bargaining Agreement. If Berrigan rules that the players took part in a pay-for-performance system rather than pay-to-injure, the discipline would be the responsibility of the system arbitrator, not Commissioner Roger Goodell. As a result, all player suspensions would be immediately wiped out. That’s not the only effect Berrigan’s ruling would have.

Classifying the system in New Orleans as pay-for-performance would mean that the discipline falls under Article 14 of the CBA. The first big change would be that the players can not be suspended at all. Article 14, Section 6, Subsection A deals with the sanctions allowed for violations of the salary cap by players and agents. The most the league could hit the players with is a $500,000 fine and forcing players to surrender whatever money they received as a direct result of the program. So in short the moment Berrigan hands this over to the system arbitrator, the players are back on the field for good. The differences in the players’ sanctions is just the beginning though.

In addition to the changes to the players’ sanctions, Article 14 could be good news for the coaches as well. Well, two of the coaches anyway. As it stands right now, Sean Payton has been suspended for one year with the opportunity to apply for reinstatement at that point and Gregg Williams has been suspended indefinitely with the opportunity to apply for reinstatement after one year. According to Article 14, Section 6, Subsection B (sanctions against clubs and their employees for violations of the salary cap) only allows for a maximum suspension of up to one year and a maximum fine of $500,000. In the case of Sean Payton, this would do away with having to apply for readmission into the league. Technically, the Commissioner couldn’t keep him out according to the CBA. As for Gregg Williams, it would put a definite clock on his time away from the league.

One last thing of interest I came across. Article 14, Section 3 covers System Arbitrator Proceedings. It’s all pretty basic stuff, but it’s the last line of the section that is of particular interest. It reads “Other than as set forth in Article 7, the complaining party shall bear the burden of demonstrating by a clear preponderance of the evidence that the challenged conduct was in violation of such Article.” In other words if Goodell wants punishments handed down, he actually has to prove his case to someone other than himself. Don’t get too excited though because the league’s case will still never see the light of day. According to Article 15, Section 10 which covers confidentiality with regard to the System Arbitrator, nothing other than the decisions will be released to anyone other than the parties involved.

Berrigan’s ruling could have a much broader effect than is being discussed. While this may have started with one man fighting for his reputation, it could result in a measure of redemption for six.
ok, Smith is a sneaky little bastard. just the type needed to handle Goodell.
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:17 PM   #17
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Minion View Post
Article 14 of the CBA and how it could affect all of the bounty penalties
Posted by whodattn ⋅ Aug 15, 2012 ⋅ 9 Comments

When it comes to the events of Judge Helen G. Berrigan’s courtroom, everyone has been focused on whether or not Jonathan Vilma will get an injunction putting his suspension on hold. While it would be great to see Vilma back with the team and rehabilitating his knee properly, it has gone largely unnoticed how much of an effect Berrigan’s ruling can have.

Much of the talk with regard to who has the power to decide the fate of the players involved centers around Article 14 of the NFL’s Collective Bargaining Agreement. If Berrigan rules that the players took part in a pay-for-performance system rather than pay-to-injure, the discipline would be the responsibility of the system arbitrator, not Commissioner Roger Goodell. As a result, all player suspensions would be immediately wiped out. That’s not the only effect Berrigan’s ruling would have.

Classifying the system in New Orleans as pay-for-performance would mean that the discipline falls under Article 14 of the CBA. The first big change would be that the players can not be suspended at all. Article 14, Section 6, Subsection A deals with the sanctions allowed for violations of the salary cap by players and agents. The most the league could hit the players with is a $500,000 fine and forcing players to surrender whatever money they received as a direct result of the program. So in short the moment Berrigan hands this over to the system arbitrator, the players are back on the field for good. The differences in the players’ sanctions is just the beginning though.

In addition to the changes to the players’ sanctions, Article 14 could be good news for the coaches as well. Well, two of the coaches anyway. As it stands right now, Sean Payton has been suspended for one year with the opportunity to apply for reinstatement at that point and Gregg Williams has been suspended indefinitely with the opportunity to apply for reinstatement after one year. According to Article 14, Section 6, Subsection B (sanctions against clubs and their employees for violations of the salary cap) only allows for a maximum suspension of up to one year and a maximum fine of $500,000. In the case of Sean Payton, this would do away with having to apply for readmission into the league. Technically, the Commissioner couldn’t keep him out according to the CBA. As for Gregg Williams, it would put a definite clock on his time away from the league.

One last thing of interest I came across. Article 14, Section 3 covers System Arbitrator Proceedings. It’s all pretty basic stuff, but it’s the last line of the section that is of particular interest. It reads “Other than as set forth in Article 7, the complaining party shall bear the burden of demonstrating by a clear preponderance of the evidence that the challenged conduct was in violation of such Article.” In other words if Goodell wants punishments handed down, he actually has to prove his case to someone other than himself. Don’t get too excited though because the league’s case will still never see the light of day. According to Article 15, Section 10 which covers confidentiality with regard to the System Arbitrator, nothing other than the decisions will be released to anyone other than the parties involved.

Berrigan’s ruling could have a much broader effect than is being discussed. While this may have started with one man fighting for his reputation, it could result in a measure of redemption for six.
The suspension was overturned because it wasn't clear that it was handed down for conduct detrimental to the game.

Goodell and the NFL have to make a clearer ruling outlining exactly what acts are being punished and why these acts are being punished the way they are. I imagine Goodell will find the suspension is handed out in part because of lack of cooperation with the leagues investigations and in part because partaking in such a system is detrimental to the reputation of the league and could lead to liability for injuries incurred.

I suspect a new set of suspensions is going to be handed down pretty quickly (I would guess before Vilma is back from his injury).
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:27 PM   #19
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Good to see Goodell smacked down.

Agree
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:53 PM   #20
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The suspension was overturned because it wasn't clear that it was handed down for conduct detrimental to the game.

Goodell and the NFL have to make a clearer ruling outlining exactly what acts are being punished and why these acts are being punished the way they are. I imagine Goodell will find the suspension is handed out in part because of lack of cooperation with the leagues investigations and in part because partaking in such a system is detrimental to the reputation of the league and could lead to liability for injuries incurred.

I suspect a new set of suspensions is going to be handed down pretty quickly (I would guess before Vilma is back from his injury).
yes but the issue is was it a salary cap violation or a player safety one? pay for performance is a salary cap violation and what is found in all the evidence shown, hence why so many people who look it over say it's extreme punishment.

pay for injury would allow him to dole out the suspensions he originally did and uphold them. problem is the evidence most have seen doesn't fully support that and it shows in the verdict, the NFLPA supporting the Saints players and the former and current players who have less issues with the Saints than originally thought by the public at large.
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:54 PM   #21
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Posted by Mike Florio on September 7, 2012, 3:40 PM EDT

In the end, Judge Berrigan didn’t have to issue a ruling at all.

An internal appeals panel has overturned the bounty suspensions imposed on the players, a source with knowledge of the decision tells PFT. The development was first reported by Jim Trotter of SI.com.

“Victory is mine!!!!” Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma said, via Twitter.

Indeed it is. Unlike any ruling that may have been issued by Judge Berrigan, the ruling from the internal appeals panel, which overturned a prior decision from arbitrator Richard Burbank, is final and binding. The league has no recourse — unless the league chooses to file a lawsuit attacking the outcome of the internal arbitration. (Which is what the players had been trying to do before Judge Berrigan.)

As to Judge Berrigan, she may still issue a ruling adopting and enforcing the outcome of the internal appeal, giving federal credibility to the decision of the panel.

What it means, in a nutshell, is that any discipline will be imposed under Article 14 of the CBA.
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:55 PM   #22
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Good to see Goodell smacked down.
Really? You're just mad because he suspended DJ - and legitimately I might add.

I do agree, in principle, that the idea of players having to appeal the commissioner's decision to the commissioner is beyond asinine, though. If this leads to a truly fair appeals process, then I am "happy he got smacked" down.
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:58 PM   #23
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so is DJ still suspended?
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Old 09-07-2012, 04:03 PM   #24
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Good! Now the coaches should file an appeal.
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Old 09-07-2012, 04:12 PM   #25
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meh, I'm not sure how the judge came to the conclusion that this was a pay for performance thing and not a pay to injure thing. The contracts already have performance based incentives so why do they need more performance based incentives? Doesn't that somehow lessen the effectiveness of the contracts already in place? That is, if a player already has performanced based incentives, how can the players involved not be violating the spirit of their current contracts with the team by putting equal to more value on these side bets?

These players were trying to knock other players out of games, how is that not a pay for injury incentive?
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