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Old 08-23-2012, 09:08 PM   #1
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Default Really hate it when the French are right

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1826606.html

What a freaking tool.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:10 PM   #2
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i know very, very little about this case...but the one thing i wnated to know, is or was there ever direct evidence of a PED or some sort of performance procedure done?
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:17 PM   #3
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After passing EVERY drug test they ever did on him I think the French can go **** a frog.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:25 PM   #4
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i know very, very little about this case...but the one thing i wnated to know, is or was there ever direct evidence of a PED or some sort of performance procedure done?
He had a hot A sample once and his B sample was destroyed before it could be tested. However the lab that tested the hot A sample was discredited (for good reason). But that is about it.

But you don't willingly accept this result, fall from being the greatest cyclist or even athlete of all time and be stripped of all your titles unless what was about to come out was far worse. I defended him until the end. Dammit. Pisses me off.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:31 PM   #5
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First - I think that this topic is so prevalent to the sports world, it should have a more clear title in the thread. But I appreciate the OP for bringing it forward.

As far as I am concerned no one has ever proven that Lance Armstrong used PEDs or cheated in any way. He simply got tired of fighting charges after 14 years of being accused by everyone. Too bad the sport of cycling is so infested with doping that one simply has to suggest that the greatest of all time was cheating too and without proof it warrants federal investigations in this country and others... and when they fail apparently it warrants another investigation by the USADA for a time period over 10 years ago.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:32 PM   #6
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I'd be pretty butthurt about a countryman of mine losing titles if it weren't cycling.

As Kenny Powers would say - "Not tryin' to be the best at exercising."
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:35 PM   #7
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Well I for one am not surprised. I've never understood how a clean guy could be so much better than all of the dopers that infest the sport. Passing the tests can be as simple as knowing where the weak spots in the testing are and staying one step ahead of them. From the link in the OP, it sounds like some of his teammates/enablers have started to talk.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:47 PM   #8
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I love this logic. "I stop defending myself after YEARS of them chasing with no evidence....then I'm guilty."
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:05 PM   #9
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Default It's the Tour De ****'O's

The arrogance of the French is unprecedented. They have been defending their honor or lack there of for centuries now. On a personal note, I can't imagine how distracting and disheartening being under this sort of gun as much as Lance has. The "angle" that such a competitor would "give up so easily" is not solid evidence in either direction.

What is apparent to me is that if it wasn't the Tour De France, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. There are so many things that an athlete at his level might do to gain an advantage that who knows whether the chemistry could ever by evidentiary. For all we know, he could be tapping into elements of the brain and endocrine system that makes him that much better. It's a very sketchy grey area to be definitive in biochemistry. We know about 10% of what we project to know about that subject, when real objective scientists sit down
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:07 PM   #10
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Maybe he is indeed innocent. We'll never know. I could see giving up the fight though. I mean, who the hell has money to pay lawyers for over a decade trying to clear your name? Even if it eventually came out that he was innocent but what good does 7 titles do if you go bankrupt trying to prove you won them fair and square?
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:11 PM   #11
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Don't get it. He has a lot of money. If he's innocent, just keep fighting it. Hell, keep your lawyer on retainer for 200,000 USD per year (he can make that in two public speaking appearances) and just lay out in Tahiti the rest of your life.

Surprised that such a fighter winds up being such a quitter.....or, you have to accept the fact that the dude actually is guilty
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:30 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by DBroncos4life View Post
After passing EVERY drug test they ever did on him I think the French can go **** a frog.
This. I dont understand how they can still be pursuing this after he took and passed "hundreds of drug tests over the 7 year period"

Do the math, just 100 tests is almost two tests a month.
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:32 PM   #13
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Don't get it. He has a lot of money. If he's innocent, just keep fighting it. Hell, keep your lawyer on retainer for 200,000 USD per year (he can make that in two public speaking appearances) and just lay out in Tahiti the rest of your life.

Surprised that such a fighter winds up being such a quitter.....or, you have to accept the fact that the dude actually is guilty
he was never going to win this fight. the USADA had him by the balls.
the CEO has wanted him bad for years and Armstrong would have just wasted money, once the courts told him no to blocking it he was done.

i don't believe he didn't dope but there was no chance in hell of him keeping those titles no matter what he did in the USADA process.
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:37 PM   #14
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Well guess I can take this funny yellow band off now
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:38 PM   #15
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This. I dont understand how they can still be pursuing this after he took and passed "hundreds of drug tests over the 7 year period"

Do the math, just 100 tests is almost two tests a month.
Quoted from the link in the OP:

"The federal probe was closed in February, but USADA announced in June it had evidence Armstrong used banned substances and methods and encouraged their use by teammates. The agency also said it had blood tests from 2009 and 2010 that were "fully consistent" with blood doping.

Included in USADA's evidence were emails written by Armstrong's former U.S. Postal Service teammate Floyd Landis, who was stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title after a positive drug test. Landis' emails to a USA Cycling official detailed allegations of a complex doping program on the team.

USADA also said it had 10 former Armstrong teammates ready to testify against him."


If what is written above is true, he is toast.
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:42 PM   #16
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They say they are going to strip him of his titles, how does a US based agency have the authority to strip Tour de France titles?

Also, if it was me I would have told them to go screw themselves long ago.

They've been harassing this guy for years, guilty or not they have gone WAY above and beyond to screw him. Why? Who cares this much about whether a retired cyclist cheated or not?
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:43 PM   #17
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Quoted from the link in the OP:

"The federal probe was closed in February, but USADA announced in June it had evidence Armstrong used banned substances and methods and encouraged their use by teammates. The agency also said it had blood tests from 2009 and 2010 that were "fully consistent" with blood doping.

Included in USADA's evidence were emails written by Armstrong's former U.S. Postal Service teammate Floyd Landis, who was stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title after a positive drug test. Landis' emails to a USA Cycling official detailed allegations of a complex doping program on the team.

USADA also said it had 10 former Armstrong teammates ready to testify against him."


If what is written above is true, he is toast.
Oh, I'm not arguing that he's not toast. I'm arguing that the whole ordeal is stupid.

I'm with Lance on this one.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:02 PM   #18
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Quoted from the link in the OP:

"The federal probe was closed in February, but USADA announced in June it had evidence Armstrong used banned substances and methods and encouraged their use by teammates. The agency also said it had blood tests from 2009 and 2010 that were "fully consistent" with blood doping.

Included in USADA's evidence were emails written by Armstrong's former U.S. Postal Service teammate Floyd Landis, who was stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title after a positive drug test. Landis' emails to a USA Cycling official detailed allegations of a complex doping program on the team.

USADA also said it had 10 former Armstrong teammates ready to testify against him."


If what is written above is true, he is toast.
What is written is not evidentiary. Just because the accusing commission says it, does not make it true. It's almost criminal that they can use the term "evidence" in the news and he can't sue for degradation of character. If there was true evidence, he would have already been found guilty. All of this fluff is just as likely that a man at the USADA's office is trying to gain recognition for his own career. There has been enough real evidence regarding prosecutors, motivated by political gain, in the last 10 years through DNA testing alone, that their profession needs to be regulated independently
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:13 PM   #19
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They've been trying to get Lance for over a decade now. He just isn't going to be playing by their bs rules anymore, and looks like he will sue the USADA.

Quote:
Armstrong attorney Tim Herman fired a letter off to USADA Thursday that suggested Armstrong would sue if USADA moves to sanction him. "You are on notice that if USADA makes any public statement claiming, without jurisdiction, to sanction Mr. Armstrong, or to falsely characterize Mr. Armstrong's reasons for not requesting an arbitration as anything other than a recognition of (International Cycling Union) jurisdiction and authority, USADA and anyone involved in the making of the statement will be liable," Herman wrote.Herman told USADA it could submit its case against Armstrong to UCI or the international Court of Arbitration for Sport, based in Switzerland.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycli...ges/57258616/1
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:15 PM   #20
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They say they are going to strip him of his titles, how does a US based agency have the authority to strip Tour de France titles?
This is what I am wondering, too.

And to the people who question how a guy could win so much... These super-athletes actually exist, you know. We just watched Michael Phelps utterly destroy swimming for years now. Bolt just defended his sprinting medals at the Olympic, and he isn't just winning, he's blowing past his competitors.

Fifteen years of testing and nothing. Either Armstrong is legit or he is the world's greatest wizard at dodging the bloodtest dragnets swooped all around him.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:20 PM   #21
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This is what I am wondering, too.

And to the people who question how a guy could win so much... These super-athletes actually exist, you know. We just watched Michael Phelps utterly destroy swimming for years now. Bolt just defended his sprinting medals at the Olympic, and he isn't just winning, he's blowing past his competitors.

Fifteen years of testing and nothing. Either Armstrong is legit or he is the world's greatest wizard at dodging the bloodtest dragnets swooped all around him.
The French can't have us winning anything in their country, they may have to admit to having superior neighbors in most all of their significant conflicts.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:22 PM   #22
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After passing EVERY drug test they ever did on him I think the French can go **** a frog.
**** those knee scraping nancies. Never failed a test. The USADA is like the FDA. Douche bag pricks with an agenda, science be damned.

Tell you what this is cheating I want my kids to learn. $150 million net worth and $500 million donated/raised for cancer research. Stick that in you mouth and blow it frenchie.


To all French members, this is directed at the general frenchie and not you. Unless you are on their side, the go scrape your knees!
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:43 PM   #23
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They've been trying to get Lance for over a decade now. He just isn't going to be playing by their bs rules anymore, and looks like he will sue the USADA.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycli...ges/57258616/1
My father is a maxillofacial surgeon. There was a law passed back in the 80's, where doctors could counter sue frivolous claims. Over the last 27 years, he has won over 100K in these suits and never paid a claim. He paid over 120K in legal fees to preserve his reputation. He could have collected more if he chose to spend the legal fees on it, but the lawyers fees outweighed the financial capacity of the suing elements to pay him back. At some point, you have to make a financial decision.
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Old 08-24-2012, 12:01 AM   #24
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Unbelievable how much money was "invested" in running Lance Armstrong down. Who funds this crap?
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Old 08-24-2012, 12:02 AM   #25
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It's possible whatever he was doing just wasn't being caught in conventional tests. You have to look for something to find it in most cases. Maybe that's why they were able to go back and find evidence of doping whereas it wasn't found at the time when noone knew to look for it.
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