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Old 08-23-2012, 01:03 PM   #326
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Didn't mean to post twice. Sorry gents.
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:05 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by Br0nc0Buster View Post
First round pick on MJD?

Name all the Broncos first round picks (not picked at #2 overall, which isn't going to happen with Manning in town) in the last 10 years that are so great they wouldn't be worth giving up for MJD.
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:10 PM   #328
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I think its laughable that MJD = Automatic Superbowl to some people. What happens when this so called "window" is closed and we are left rebuilding AGAIN. ****, the team STILL isn't finished rebuilding. I'd rather not look like the Raiders and start our draft in the 3rd and 4th round -___-
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:24 PM   #329
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No thanks to McD. Steven Jackson hadn't had so few rushing attempts since 2005.
For a numbers guy I expected better. Try again he had 4 th highest total in his 8 years in the league.
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:26 PM   #330
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I think its laughable that MJD = Automatic Superbowl to some people. What happens when this so called "window" is closed and we are left rebuilding AGAIN. ****, the team STILL isn't finished rebuilding. I'd rather not look like the Raiders and start our draft in the 3rd and 4th round -___-
Well, we didn't win any Super Bowls until we had both a star RB and QB...not saying I agree or disagree with the MJD notion here but as a fan base I would say there's some bias with the view that he could help.
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:28 PM   #331
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Name all the Broncos first round picks (not picked at #2 overall, which isn't going to happen with Manning in town) in the last 10 years that are so great they wouldn't be worth giving up for MJD.
Last 10 years?
I dont really remember before 2003 I think that was the year we took Foster
Anways the answer is Cutler and Clady

But poor drafting from previous FOs is not an excuse to spend a first on a RB where best case scenario you get 3 good years out of

You dont need a top RB, nor do you even need a top running game anymore

Off the top of my head here are some previous SB RB starters
Ahmand Bradshaw
Brandon Jacobs
James Jones
Pierre Thomas
Willie Parker
OLD Jerome Bettis
Joseph Addai
OLD Corey Dillon
Antwan Smith
Warrick Dunn

Not really a whose who of elite players
Pass on using high draft picks on RBs
Teams are going to dual back rotations and running really isnt that important anymore

Add in the fact MJD has a lot of tread on those tires and his knee is a ticking time bomb

I would trade a 3rd for him
Prolly not a 2nd
Fore sure not a 1st
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:29 PM   #332
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I think its laughable that MJD = Automatic Superbowl to some people. What happens when this so called "window" is closed and we are left rebuilding AGAIN. ****, the team STILL isn't finished rebuilding. I'd rather not look like the Raiders and start our draft in the 3rd and 4th round -___-

The Bronco's are in "win now" mode. Why else would you bring in Manning? Some franchises have been rebuilding for decades. Screw that. Do whatever it takes to win now. Win or lose, you will be rebuilding sooner rather than later. I say go for it.
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:38 PM   #333
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4.3 to 4.6 isn't close?

Longest run is a complete throw away stat by the way. It serves to boost YPC. It show more consistency to have a good 4+ yard per carry average without stat boosters. It's the Tatum Bell effect.
So what do you do not count them. Now of he is caught from behind for 20 yd gain does it count? That is comical but whatever it takes to make you think slowshon is almost as good as MJD. I am not even on the trade for him either.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:15 PM   #334
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4.3 to 4.6 isn't close?

Longest run is a complete throw away stat by the way. It serves to boost YPC. It show more consistency to have a good 4+ yard per carry average without stat boosters. It's the Tatum Bell effect.
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Statistically they are comparable. The only lopsided Stat is TD's, and while that is important, I can't say how MJD was used around the goalline compared to Moreno.

The fact remains: MJD had 2552 yards from scrimmage his first 2 seasons and Moreno had 2311. Less than 100 yards difference.


It isn't 4.3 to 4.6 over the first two seasons and that is what you are comparing.

Moreno over the first two years had 429 attempts for 1726 yards for 4.02 yards per carry.
MJD over the first two years had 323 attempts for 1709 yards for 5.29 yards per carry.

Breaking runs over 20 yards shows a THREAT which MJD is. Moreno isn't a third of a the back that MJD is.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:18 PM   #335
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ok, but what did NE give up in the trade? That's kind of important don't you think?
In the post you quoted I pointed out that they gave up a 2nd round pick for him.

MJD is only 27. He turned 27 in March, so that is a legit 27, not 27 but turning 28 mid-season.

He had part time back duties for the first three seasons of his career. Since becoming an every down back he's been one of the elite backs in the league. Dude is a STEAL for a 1st round pick.

He's got at least three more seasons of peak productivity and is a fantastic system fit. You put MJD on this team, let McGahee stay around as the short yardage #2, and have Hillman start doing work as a return man and secondary scat back behind MJD.

Not only would he make this a top 5 offense from basically day one, getting him would also add a superstar bridge for when Manning hangs it up, while also putting a role model in-house for Hillman to learn from.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:21 PM   #336
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I think its laughable that MJD = Automatic Superbowl to some people. What happens when this so called "window" is closed and we are left rebuilding AGAIN. ****, the team STILL isn't finished rebuilding. I'd rather not look like the Raiders and start our draft in the 3rd and 4th round -___-
MJD is only 27 and there is a 50/50 chance any first rounder drafted next year will be a bust and give us ZERO ever.

MJD has 3+ years of elite football left in him, and probably another 2-4 years after that where he could be an excellent split duty back.

If the Jags want a king's ransom then screw 'em, but if all we're talking about is a first rounder then get it done assuming they'll agree to some basic protections in MJD gets hurt and/or the Broncos miss the playoffs completely and have a super early pick.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:26 PM   #337
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In the post you quoted I pointed out that they gave up a 2nd round pick for him.

MJD is only 27. He turned 27 in March, so that is a legit 27, not 27 but turning 28 mid-season.

He had part time back duties for the first three seasons of his career. Since becoming an every down back he's been one of the elite backs in the league. Dude is a STEAL for a 1st round pick.

He's got at least three more seasons of peak productivity and is a fantastic system fit. You put MJD on this team, let McGahee stay around as the short yardage #2, and have Hillman start doing work as a return man and secondary scat back behind MJD.

Not only would he make this a top 5 offense from basically day one, getting him would also add a superstar bridge for when Manning hangs it up, while also putting a role model in-house for Hillman to learn from.
It's been awhile but I agree with you 110% I thought the best thing for our young Hillman is to have him come around slowly like Sproles. Keep his game changing skills on return game, that way he doesn't wear out as fast playing both return guy/RB.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:34 PM   #338
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For a numbers guy I expected better. Try again he had 4 th highest total in his 8 years in the league.
That's dishonest of you.

I'm not counting the two years he missed at least 4 games and you are. One of which he had only 7 fewer carries than last year. The other 23. His rushing attempts per game plummeted under McD last year.

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Old 08-23-2012, 02:35 PM   #339
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Last 10 years?
I dont really remember before 2003 I think that was the year we took Foster
Anways the answer is Cutler and Clady

But poor drafting from previous FOs is not an excuse to spend a first on a RB where best case scenario you get 3 good years out of
Why 3? Because you say so?

Either way, 3 good years out of a guy is better than we've gotten out of anyone drafted in the first round in the last 10 years INCLUDING Cutler and Clady.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:38 PM   #340
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If they're only asking a first and a player, get him!
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:39 PM   #341
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Hey morons he is not available..

If he would be he is not worth a couple of draft choices..

He is not worth the 8-10 a year he would want.

Even if he was available we do not have the cap space to cover it without cutting some one..

Every frigin time some one wants to leave there team or gets cuts we have some moron that starts a thread or in some cases several morons.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:41 PM   #342
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It's been awhile but I agree with you 110% I thought the best thing for our young Hillman is to have him come around slowly like Sproles. Keep his game changing skills on return game, that way he doesn't wear out as fast playing both return guy/RB.
Yep. Young guys who are quick like Hillman but don't fully understand the speed and power of the NFL make themselves into exposed targets early on.

We should minimize his hits and let him learn the ropes. Then when he's fully developed into an NFL level back both mentally and physically he takes over for MJD in a system that is ideally suited to his skills.

The only people really left out in the cold would be McGahee (last year on his contract anyway) and Moreno (might not even make the team apparently).

What MJD gives you in production over the next 3-5 years will almost definitely be worth more than what any late first round draftee could possibly be expected to give us for his first contract and there is far from a guarantee that we'd even want to give him a second one.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:44 PM   #343
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Hey morons he is not available..

If he would be he is not worth a couple of draft choices..
Everyone is available for the right price. Depends on what that price is, which obviously none of us know and that is what much of the speculation is this thread centers on.

Quote:
He is not worth the 8-10 a year he would want.
The best back in the NFL isn't worth twice what we pay Joe Mays? Really?

Quote:
Even if he was available we do not have the cap space to cover it without cutting some one..
We've got some flexibility under the cap and could easily make more by cutting the waste of cap space known as DJ Williams.

Better yet, he's got two more years on his deal at reasonable money, so he would likely be very willing to accept a staggered payout of bonus money, making it much easier to handle without damaging our future flexibility.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:52 PM   #344
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Everyone is available for the right price. Depends on what that price is, which obviously none of us know and that is what much of the speculation is this thread centers on.


The best back in the NFL isn't worth twice what we pay Joe Mays? Really?


We've got some flexibility under the cap and could easily make more by cutting the waste of cap space known as DJ Williams.

Better yet, he's got two more years on his deal at reasonable money, so he would likely be very willing to accept a staggered payout of bonus money, making it much easier to handle without damaging our future flexibility.
Yep your right everyone has a price..

Hey knuckle head if he is not going to play for his team for that kind of money why would he play for the" reasasonable" in DEN.

Some people's kids..
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:58 PM   #345
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In the post you quoted I pointed out that they gave up a 2nd round pick for him.

MJD is only 27. He turned 27 in March, so that is a legit 27, not 27 but turning 28 mid-season.

He had part time back duties for the first three seasons of his career. Since becoming an every down back he's been one of the elite backs in the league. Dude is a STEAL for a 1st round pick.

He's got at least three more seasons of peak productivity and is a fantastic system fit. You put MJD on this team, let McGahee stay around as the short yardage #2, and have Hillman start doing work as a return man and secondary scat back behind MJD.

Not only would he make this a top 5 offense from basically day one, getting him would also add a superstar bridge for when Manning hangs it up, while also putting a role model in-house for Hillman to learn from.
Why is this so hard for people to understand?

McGahee is another year older. With his upright running style and physicality it's not a matter of if he gets hurt, but when and how badly. After McGahee you have Hillman who I think has a lot of potential, but are they really going to trust him in pass protection? So that leaves Moreno, a guy that was supposed to be a feature back, but can't even solidify the no. 2 spot and on top of that has a hard time carrying the ball more than a couple of times during a series without getting dinged up. After that you have Lance Ball who makes Sammy Winder look as elusive as Barry Sanders and some Omon guy who's been in like four different camps, but never stuck with a team.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:11 PM   #346
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Why 3? Because you say so?

Either way, 3 good years out of a guy is better than we've gotten out of anyone drafted in the first round in the last 10 years INCLUDING Cutler and Clady.
In 3 years he will be 30 years old with over 2200 carries on his legs and a sketchy knee
(And this is a conservative estimate that included averages from his first 3 years in the league. If he is gonna get workhorse carries like the past 3 years his carries could be over 2400)

McGahee by comparison is almost 31 and has less than 1800 carries, and no knee concerns

Based on the longevity of the position and his knee I see nothing to suggest he will sustain for more than a few years (3)
And the upgrade from McGahee to MJD for a few years is not worth a 1st

You can find stud RBs in the 2nd round anyways, no need to waste a 1st for them
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:14 PM   #347
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You can find stud RBs in the 2nd round anyways, no need to waste a 1st for them
You can say this about every position, in theory, until you look at the Broncos track record. Once again, if it's so easy to do and such a gimme, why haven't we done it since Portis?
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:25 PM   #348
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MJD is only 27 and there is a 50/50 chance any first rounder drafted next year will be a bust and give us ZERO ever.

MJD has 3+ years of elite football left in him, and probably another 2-4 years after that where he could be an excellent split duty back.

If the Jags want a king's ransom then screw 'em, but if all we're talking about is a first rounder then get it done assuming they'll agree to some basic protections in MJD gets hurt and/or the Broncos miss the playoffs completely and have a super early pick.
I highly, highly question the guarantee of 3+ elite years of production from him. RB's drop off faster than anything these days.
And then another 2-4 years after that? lol
We need to get a fricken MLB more than we need to get a RB. Because I'm not sold on getting MJD to "win now" when we still have a lot of question marks to me, and RB isn't a concern to me with how easily guys are found to play at a consistent level.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:31 PM   #349
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That's dishonest of you.

I'm not counting the two years he missed at least 4 games and you are. One of which he had only 7 fewer carries than last year. The other 23. His rushing attempts per game plummeted under McD last year.
Ok so your cherry picking. You never mentioned that.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:31 PM   #350
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Corey Dillon, Rickety Williams there are a few times. Probably more if I thought about it more.
ok, but what did the teams trade to get these guys, that's the whole point!
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