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Old 08-23-2012, 11:05 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by DBroncos4life View Post
If the asking price is a first you make the trade. If its less you make the deal. You can't say to them well Lynch went for a 4th a few years ago and Faulk went for this 15 years ago so here is our best offer.
I guess you do that if you're desperate. Are the Broncos desperate? We haven't even seen a regular season game played yet nor have we seen Hillman. Also, there will be RBs available very soon after cuts.

I'm saying the Broncos need to consider this before they consider trading for MJD. Also, we don't even know if MJD is available or not so this is all hypothetical as of right now. I don't think MJD will be available and IF he is, the Jags will want way too much for him in a trade. JMHO.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:08 AM   #302
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Except they dont!

Anyone watching knew that MJD was a very good back. I can't say the same for Moreno nor do I want to waste a year trying to find out. He isn't a scrub back till you compare him to MJD then it isn't even worth discussing. A RB shouldn't take 4 stinking seasons to develop man. Go one and tell me how it took MJD 4 years to break a 1000 yards. The MJD had 34 rushing TDs to Moreno's 12. YPC was higher as well as receptions and yards recieving. Then look at the longest runs for them. Moreno's career long was 36 yards dude! Come on man!!!
Statistically they are comparable. The only lopsided Stat is TD's, and while that is important, I can't say how MJD was used around the goalline compared to Moreno.

The fact remains: MJD had 2552 yards from scrimmage his first 2 seasons and Moreno had 2311. Less than 100 yards difference.

Either way, I mentioned that MJD is a better back, likely was then and is still today. My argument is that he isn't superior enough to warrant the price we would pay in trade and then to sign him to a new contract. Partially because I think Moreno has a lot more to give to the Broncos, and that we have a shiny new RB we just drafted already.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:09 AM   #303
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Bingo

If we had a young QB starting it would be a completely different story and I would actually probably be against trying to acquire MJD, but our window of opportunity is not very big so if there is a chance to add ELITE offensive talent, you do it
That's how I feel about it. Elway pushed the chips into the pot with Manning. Realistically speaking Manning has two years, three years tops. I think you've gotta surround him with as much talent now as you can.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:11 AM   #304
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I guess you do that if you're desperate. Are the Broncos desperate? We haven't even seen a regular season game played yet nor have we seen Hillman. Also, the will be RBs available very soon after cuts.

I'm saying the Broncos need to consider this before they consider trading for MJD. Also, we don't even know if MJD is available or not so this is all hypothetical as of right now. I don't think MJD will be available and IF he is, the Jags will want way too much for him in a trade. JMHO.
What is to stop the aging Pats with no running game at all for tossing a first and woodhead for MJD? There window with Brady is just as short as ours is with Manning. Hillman is young like 20 so no need to worry about that with shelf lives of RBs so short. Bring him along slowly like Sproles. And no RB as good as MJD will be cut.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:12 AM   #305
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Statistically they are comparable. The only lopsided Stat is TD's, and while that is important, I can't say how MJD was used around the goalline compared to Moreno.

The fact remains: MJD had 2552 yards from scrimmage his first 2 seasons and Moreno had 2311. Less than 100 yards difference.

Either way, I mentioned that MJD is a better back, likely was then and is still today. My argument is that he isn't superior enough to warrant the price we would pay in trade and then to sign him to a new contract. Partially because I think Moreno has a lot more to give to the Broncos, and that we have a shiny new RB we just drafted already.
YPA isn't even close. Longest run isn't even close.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:16 AM   #306
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Vic Lombardi on CBS sports last night:

"Remember when Peyton Manning was interviewing the Cardinals and I said the Broncos had a 93 percent chance of landing him? Well the Broncos have about a 6.75 percent chance of landing Maurice Jones-Drew. I just talked to an anonymous insider high up in the Broncos organization, and the Broncos just aren't interested. First, because the Broncos would have to give up at leas a first round draft pick to get him... He may very well be the best back in the NFL, but this is Peyton Manning's team, and the Broncos don't need him."
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:16 AM   #307
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What is to stop the aging Pats with no running game at all for tossing a first and woodhead for MJD? There window with Brady is just as short as ours is with Manning. Hillman is young like 20 so no need to worry about that with shelf lives of RBs so short. Bring him along slowly like Sproles. And no RB as good as MJD will be cut.
I can't answer this obviously because it would be pure speculation. All I do know is that NE let Benjavus Green-Ellis go without any problem. That being said, a team should never get a player in order to prevent another team from getting that player. You never do this, ever. In fact, it has been argued right here that one reason McD drafted Moreno at #12 was because he was afraid that SD would take Moreno at #15. Well, how's that working for the Broncos now?
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:24 AM   #308
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What is to stop the aging Pats with no running game at all for tossing a first and woodhead for MJD? There window with Brady is just as short as ours is with Manning. Hillman is young like 20 so no need to worry about that with shelf lives of RBs so short. Bring him along slowly like Sproles. And no RB as good as MJD will be cut.
They spend like a 2nd and 3rd on two guys last year

Vareene and Ridley
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:26 AM   #309
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First round pick on MJD?

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Old 08-23-2012, 11:26 AM   #310
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Vic Lombardi on CBS sports last night:

"Remember when Peyton Manning was interviewing the Cardinals and I said the Broncos had a 93 percent chance of landing him? Well the Broncos have about a 6.75 percent chance of landing Maurice Jones-Drew. I just talked to an anonymous insider high up in the Broncos organization, and the Broncos just aren't interested. First, because the Broncos would have to give up at leas a first round draft pick to get him... He may very well be the best back in the NFL, but this is Peyton Manning's team, and the Broncos don't need him."
While probably true, LMAO @ 6.75%

Way to go Vic
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:29 AM   #311
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Statistically they are comparable. The only lopsided Stat is TD's, and while that is important, I can't say how MJD was used around the goalline compared to Moreno.

The fact remains: MJD had 2552 yards from scrimmage his first 2 seasons and Moreno had 2311. Less than 100 yards difference.Either way, I mentioned that MJD is a better back, likely was then and is still today. My argument is that he isn't superior enough to warrant the price we would pay in trade and then to sign him to a new contract. Partially because I think Moreno has a lot more to give to the Broncos, and that we have a shiny new RB we just drafted already.
MJD had 419 touches to get 2552 yards which averages out to 6 yards a touch. Moreno had 494 touches to get to 2311 yards which averages out to just under 4.7 yards per touch.
PS you left off return yards for the first two years for MJD vs Moreno.

MJD last year had 9 runs of 20 or more yards. Has Moreno had 9 his whole career?
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:30 AM   #312
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They spend like a 2nd and 3rd on two guys last year

Vareene and Ridley
They suck.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:34 AM   #313
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So assuming he is up for trade and let's assume the Bronco's take a pass - where does he go?

The Chargers? The Pats?

How would you feel about that?
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:36 AM   #314
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YPA isn't even close. Longest run isn't even close.
4.3 to 4.6 isn't close?

Longest run is a complete throw away stat by the way. It serves to boost YPC. It show more consistency to have a good 4+ yard per carry average without stat boosters. It's the Tatum Bell effect.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:41 AM   #315
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4.3 to 4.6 isn't close?

Longest run is a complete throw away stat by the way. It serves to boost YPC. It show more consistency to have a good 4+ yard per carry average without stat boosters. It's the Tatum Bell effect.
That was the argument with Peyton Hillis coming out of his rookie season - 5ypc without a single run over 20 yards.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:43 AM   #316
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I'm saying MJD is not worth much in a trade which what I have been saying from the beginning.

Go back and look at all my posts, please.

I've never said I don't want MJD, I've simply said I wouldn't give much up for the guy in a trade.
If you scare away the Jets.... then yes... he is worth that much!

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Old 08-23-2012, 11:44 AM   #317
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Except they dont!

Anyone watching knew that MJD was a very good back. I can't say the same for Moreno nor do I want to waste a year trying to find out. He isn't a scrub back till you compare him to MJD then it isn't even worth discussing. A RB shouldn't take 4 stinking seasons to develop man. Go one and tell me how it took MJD 4 years to break a 1000 yards. The MJD had 34 rushing TDs to Moreno's 12. YPC was higher as well as receptions and yards recieving. Then look at the longest runs for them. Moreno's career long was 36 yards dude! Come on man!!!
Well, he was a mid round pick and he spent 4 years behind Fred Taylor who was a pro bowl running back in his own right. Plus he was the leading RB in franchise history for what that is worth.

That is what is great he has lots of tread on his tires as he was a partime back his first 4 years.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:44 AM   #318
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MJD had 419 touches to get 2552 yards which averages out to 6 yards a touch. Moreno had 494 touches to get to 2311 yards which averages out to just under 4.7 yards per touch.
PS you left off return yards for the first two years for MJD vs Moreno.

MJD last year had 9 runs of 20 or more yards. Has Moreno had 9 his whole career?
Yards from scrimmage, not all purpose yards. I am only counting roles in which both players filled. I don't think Moreno was ever used as a returner.

A difference of 1.3 yards per touch is acceptable variance if variables like the offense they play in, the ability of their respective olines to block for them, and the plays they are asked to run are taken out of the equation (due to difficulty to track these variables).

You seem to forget that I am conceding MJD being superior, he's great. I am just trying to show you how fine those lines really are, and it's not always responsible to start throwing resources away without considering the real cost vs. benefit
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:48 AM   #319
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Yards from scrimmage, not all purpose yards. I am only counting roles in which both players filled. I don't think Moreno was ever used as a returner.

A difference of 1.3 yards per touch is acceptable variance if variables like the offense they play in, the ability of their respective olines to block for them, and the plays they are asked to run are taken out of the equation (due to difficulty to track these variables).

You seem to forget that I am conceding MJD being superior, he's great. I am just trying to show you how fine those lines really are, and it's not always responsible to start throwing resources away without considering the real cost vs. benefit
Why are you people even talking about Moreno?? He'll be very lucky to even make this team without MJD.

MJD rushed for 400 yards more than McGhee last year. He had Blain Gabbert as his QB and his team sucked. He stillaveraged 4.7 YPC.

Him and McGhee would provide the Broncos with the best running game in the NFL along with a very good aging QB that really probably wants to hand the ball off more than he has in the past.

PLEASE leave Moreno out of this, talk about dumbing down an arguement.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:52 AM   #320
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They suck.
but, but, but Bellychick is a genius! He knows all! He is the all-world king of NFL football!!

/end sarcasm.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:54 AM   #321
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I agree with Vic Lombardi's assessment. It's Manning's team, so we'll be passing a lot more than last year. Our stable of backs is good enough, and adding a superstar back could create more of an issue divying up the load between the pass and the run.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:57 AM   #322
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Why are you people even talking about Moreno?? He'll be very lucky to even make this team without MJD.

MJD rushed for 400 yards more than McGhee last year. He had Blain Gabbert as his QB and his team sucked. He stillaveraged 4.7 YPC.

Him and McGhee would provide the Broncos with the best running game in the NFL along with a very good aging QB that really probably wants to hand the ball off more than he has in the past.

PLEASE leave Moreno out of this, talk about dumbing down an arguement.
well I guess you totally missed the point of the comparison. He did explain his reasoning behind the comparison.
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Old 08-23-2012, 12:00 PM   #323
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Yep, that did work out well for the Rams. Can you think of any other trades that panned out well for the team receiving the RB?
Corey Dillon, Rickety Williams there are a few times. Probably more if I thought about it more.
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Old 08-23-2012, 12:03 PM   #324
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I agree with Vic Lombardi's assessment. It's Manning's team, so we'll be passing a lot more than last year. Our stable of backs is good enough, and adding a superstar back could create more of an issue divying up the load between the pass and the run.
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Old 08-23-2012, 12:03 PM   #325
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It's Manning's team. And there is nothing that Manning loves more than handing off the ball and seeing explosive 1 yard gains. Especially when he's trying to run out the clock. I've been watching him do it in Indy for the last 5 years.

I'm not buying that the ego clash between Peyton and MJD is what would sink this deal. Neither fellow seems that self centered to me. MJD wants cash. Manning wants a ring. Make it happen.
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