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Old 08-23-2012, 06:33 AM   #226
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Love it when people rally around and defend a running back that was drafted top 15, but who in camp, can't beat out Lance Ball and an injured 3rd round draft pick whose never played in a game
Can't beat them out? It's camp mind games....early preseason reps and depth charts are fairly meaningless. He's superior to both and will prove it during the regular season when he's the one out there instead of those two guys.
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Old 08-23-2012, 06:38 AM   #227
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Don't like stats? Fine. I'd love to hear what criteria you are grading them on to say that Faulk's worst is better than Moreno's best. Longevity?
They are the same back is all I'm saying. Part time 3rd down back that are average runners, good in pass protection and good catching passes. Moreno can't stay heathy though and is worthless dancing behind the LOS. I can't wait for the day he is cut.
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Old 08-23-2012, 06:39 AM   #228
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Forget stats. Kyle Orton was once on pace to throw for 5,600 yards in McD's offense. Pick 5 random games and watch how MJD runs, and then pick 5 random games and watch how Moreno, Ball, Johnson, and (fill-in-the-blank) camp fodder runs. And then tell me we would get equal meaningful production.
I don't have to. Taking out Tebows stats (which likely stole carries and TD's from RB's) here is combined production in 2011:

Denver's Running backs produced 1857 yards 4.7ypc 5 rushing TD's and 3 receiving.

Jax combined for 1736yds 3.5ypc 8 rush TD's and 3 receiving.

Stats is how you manage production, especially "meaningful" production. Not how someone looks.
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Old 08-23-2012, 06:57 AM   #229
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They are the same back is all I'm saying. Part time 3rd down back that are average runners, good in pass protection and good catching passes. Moreno can't stay heathy though and is worthless dancing behind the LOS. I can't wait for the day he is cut.
Moreno was extremely productive in 2009 and 2010 running behind what amounted to one of the worst OLines in the league (if not THE worst). How soon we forget that he was among the all time NFL leaders in yards after contact in the backfield and was regularly able to make something out of nothing.

Had he been running behind a competent line, nobody here would be questioning him.
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:04 AM   #230
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I don't have to. Taking out Tebows stats (which likely stole carries and TD's from RB's) here is combined production in 2011:

Denver's Running backs produced 1857 yards 4.7ypc 5 rushing TD's and 3 receiving.

Jax combined for 1736yds 3.5ypc 8 rush TD's and 3 receiving.

Stats is how you manage production, especially "meaningful" production. Not how someone looks.
Tebow took a defender away, so those yards would drop way down with out him. Lucky for us Peyton is a stud and everyone will have to play pass so I think our yards should stay about the same. But that is not a fair comparison.
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:09 AM   #231
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Moreno was extremely productive in 2009 and 2010 running behind what amounted to one of the worst OLines in the league (if not THE worst). How soon we forget that he was among the all time NFL leaders in yards after contact in the backfield and was regularly able to make something out of nothing.

Had he been running behind a competent line, nobody here would be questioning him.
How many 100 yard games did he have? There are plenty of RB's that produced a lot more than Slowshon. Hell someone compared him to MJD and look what he did last year with no passing game and a junk OL. Moreno is a very average RB that you could find in a slew of UDFA rookie RB's everyyear. Disclaimer Slowshon has played well against KC in his career.
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:19 AM   #232
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How many 100 yard games did he have? There are plenty of RB's that produced a lot more than Slowshon. Hell someone compared him to MJD and look what he did last year with no passing game and a junk OL. Moreno is a very average RB that you could find in a slew of UDFA rookie RB's everyyear. Disclaimer Slowshon has played well against KC in his career.
And as a bonus Slowshon can celebrate in the end zone like its nobodys buisness! Especially when down by 30 with 3 minutes to go in the game.
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:21 AM   #233
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How many 100 yard games did he have? There are plenty of RB's that produced a lot more than Slowshon. Hell someone compared him to MJD and look what he did last year with no passing game and a junk OL. Moreno is a very average RB that you could find in a slew of UDFA rookie RB's everyyear. Disclaimer Slowshon has played well against KC in his career.
Are you even above the legal drinking age?

Your posts lack maturity and reason.
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:21 AM   #234
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How many 100 yard games did he have? There are plenty of RB's that produced a lot more than Slowshon.
How many of them were running behind the worst line in the league?

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Moreno is a very average RB that you could find in a slew of UDFA rookie RB's everyyear.
Weird. Cause out of the 50 or so RBs listed in his entire draft class, I see only two that have had a better career thus far.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2009RB.php
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:29 AM   #235
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How many of them were running behind the worst line in the league?



Weird. Cause out of the 50 or so RBs listed in his entire draft class, I see only two that have had a better career thus far.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2009RB.php
Beanie Wells
Arian Foster
Leshon McCoy
Shonn Greene
Donald Brown is about par.

Which 2 do you put ahead of Slowshon?
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:38 AM   #236
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I will give Moreno a pass for the run blocking a couple years ago but the last year or even this preseason he has looked inept while guys like Omon and McGahee look fine. He just is not a good overall running back.

I know it's armchair QB, but the thought of where we drafted him makes me sick.
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:39 AM   #237
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Tebow took a defender away, so those yards would drop way down with out him. Lucky for us Peyton is a stud and everyone will have to play pass so I think our yards should stay about the same. But that is not a fair comparison.
It balances out. There was some misdirection to argue that Tebow positively affected the RB's production. At the same time, team played run almost exclusively and Tebows carries subtracted from the RB's carries. So it is basically a wash
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:46 AM   #238
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Beanie Wells
Arian Foster
Leshon McCoy
Shonn Greene
Donald Brown is about par.

Which 2 do you put ahead of Slowshon?
Clearly, McCoy and Foster
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:49 AM   #239
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I will give Moreno a pass for the run blocking a couple years ago but the last year or even this preseason he has looked inept while guys like Omon and McGahee look fine. He just is not a good overall running back.

I know it's armchair QB, but the thought of where we drafted him makes me sick.
He started looking pretty good once we switched up the offense with Tebow, he just got hurt. As for this preseason, he was just as effective as anyone else in his limited time in game 1, then got 1 total carry in game 2 and was met in the back field (like every other runner in that game not playing with the 1st team Oline).
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:54 AM   #240
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I will give Moreno a pass for the run blocking a couple years ago but the last year or even this preseason he has looked inept while guys like Omon and McGahee look fine.
Moreno had the exact same ypc as McGahee last year.
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:58 AM   #241
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Moreno had the exact same ypc as McGahee last year.
come on Bean, I know you are better than to cherry pick stats...

Eddie Royal averaged more YPC than everyone last year followed by Jeremiah Johnson, Tebow, DT and then McGahee/Moreno. That doesn't mean they are better RB options.
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:00 AM   #242
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(like every other runner in that game not playing with the 1st team Oline).
try again
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:05 AM   #243
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come on Bean, I know you are better than to cherry pick stats...

Eddie Royal averaged more YPC than everyone last year followed by Jeremiah Johnson, Tebow, DT and then McGahee/Moreno. That doesn't mean they are better RB options.
It's actually the most comparable stat for two running backs when one goes down early on in the season and has limited carries.

Obviously, comparing that stat between a RB and a WR or QB is not valid. But these guys were playing the same position, running behind the same Oline, in the same situations. There is certainly some value there.
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:24 AM   #244
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Clearly, McCoy and Foster
Everyone of them is and has been better than slowshon. Brown is about the same.
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:34 AM   #245
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I understand the arguement for Moreno. But yards after and good stats(not seeing it) are all wiped out by the one common denominator. Injury. I can GUARANTEE he will be hurt and out in due time. It happens EVERY year. This last injury was his worst. He breaks down on a consistent basis. That trait does not work for RB. What's the point of him beating out ball and Hillman when both will have to replace him when it counts the most?
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:38 AM   #246
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Let me preface this by saying I was an advocate of drafting Moreno at 12 in 2009. His highlight tape indicated that he was dynamic in space, wasn't afraid to run between the tackles and always finished his runs with authority. He also was an above average pass catching back and blocker for his size. I envisioned him as being in the mold of Marshall Faulk or LT, just with less top end speed. That being said, for whatever reason those abilities didn't translate to the NFL. I don't know if it's injuries, or peds, or both, but it's like he's an entirely different player than he was at Georgia. I really don't need to cherry pick stats, or compare him to back x or back y in his draft class, I just watch how he's run his entire career here.

Whenever he catches an edge, or there is a hole that breaks outside, he simply doesn't have the explosiveness to exploit the play. Sure, he might get 4 yards or 5 yards, but with that same hole, a Mike Anderson, or even an Orlandus Gary would have broken off 15, 20 yards. He's developed some really bad habits between the tackles too. He dances way too much. I can't stand another year of watching him do his Fred Flinstone bowling impersonation as he gets tackled after a one-yard gain. At this point he's the antithesis of the type of one cut and go back that we need.
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:38 AM   #247
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Everyone of them is and has been better than slowshon. Brown is about the same.
Please. Provide evidence, because I've looked at the numbers and how they're viewed by their teams and I'm not seeing it.

Brown the same? Maybe if you ignore the 800 fewer all purpose yards and the fact that he has half the TDs as Knowshon. Other than that, though, they're clearly the same.
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:47 AM   #248
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I really don't need to cherry pick stats, or compare him to back x or back y in his draft class, I just watch how he's run his entire career here.
This is the Orangemane anti-Moreno argument in a nutshell. "I don't care how good his numbers might actually be.....or how well he compares to the other RBs in his draft class. I just care how he makes me feel when I watch him."
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:48 AM   #249
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I absolutely get what you are saying Bean and I agree...he has looked pretty good at times. I just don't know how anyone can look at the entire career of this kid so far and feel good about it.

I would love nothing more than for him to work out, he just isn't a good running back most of the time.
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:49 AM   #250
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Let me preface this by saying I was an advocate of drafting Moreno at 12 in 2009. His highlight tape indicated that he was dynamic in space, wasn't afraid to run between the tackles and always finished his runs with authority. He also was an above average pass catching back and blocker for his size. I envisioned him as being in the mold of Marshall Faulk or LT, just with less top end speed. That being said, for whatever reason those abilities didn't translate to the NFL. I don't know if it's injuries, or peds, or both, but it's like he's an entirely different player than he was at Georgia. I really don't need to cherry pick stats, or compare him to back x or back y in his draft class, I just watch how he's run his entire career here.

Whenever he catches an edge, or there is a hole that breaks outside, he simply doesn't have the explosiveness to exploit the play. Sure, he might get 4 yards or 5 yards, but with that same hole, a Mike Anderson, or even an Orlandus Gary would have broken off 15, 20 yards. He's developed some really bad habits between the tackles too. He dances way too much. I can't stand another year of watching him do his Fred Flinstone bowling impersonation as he gets tackled after a one-yard gain. At this point he's the antithesis of the type of one cut and go back that we need.
Very good take...

I also watched a lot of Knowshon Moreno when he played at Georgia, he was never a home run threat but he would consistently get you 5-6 yards at a minimum, and would break tackles to pick up 10-15 yards.

No sure why now he tends to go down on the 1st hit, or what is up with the dancing at the line of scrimmage.

I think the Broncos pretty much know what Moreno can do at the NFL level. Which is proving to be .. not much.
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