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Old 08-21-2012, 09:12 AM   #1
manchambo
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Default Not Another 3-4 Thread . . .

But it's not my fault. Kiszla is suggesting it over at the post: http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_...nse?source=rss

My first reaction: silly. But then I read the article and he makes some valid points.

First, how can you maximize the abilities of your top two defensive playmakers? Seemingly by allowing miller and doom to move around more as olbs. That is where doom had the most success, and it seems like miller's natural position.

Second, DJ who? Would there be any reason not to cut him if miller and doom were manning the outside spots?

Third, more than in previous years, they seem to have line men who would fit the scheme in Wolfe, warren and bannan.

It is doubtful, to be sure, that they would make the change so late in camp. And if they did you would have to wonder how well they're running things not to have realized it should be implemented for the start. But on the other hand it's sure starting to seem like they're drafting for one scheme and implementing another.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:17 AM   #2
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Our run defense sucks. A 3-4 will not help this

Denver Post trying to sell papers, that's it


Plus you need an elite NT to have even a halfway decent 3-4, and we have nobody for that. Hell, look at the chorfs reaching in the draft trying to fill that role. Simple fact is college/NFL personnel is flush with 4-3 talent, 3-4 talent not so much

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Old 08-21-2012, 09:23 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manchambo View Post
First, how can you maximize the abilities of your top two defensive playmakers? Seemingly by allowing miller and doom to move around more as olbs. That is where doom had the most success,
Someone here did an analysis of his performance that year (2009) and it showed decisively that most of his production came when he was lined up as a DE with his hand on the ground in the 4 man front....not standing up at OLB in the 3-4 alignment.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:25 AM   #4
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Well the way we run a lot of our 4-3 under looks it is basically a 3-4.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:29 AM   #5
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Well the way we run a lot of our 4-3 under looks it is basically a 3-4.
Yep, you're right...it's basically a 5-2 (with Dumervil and Miller on the ends), which is what a 3-4 turns into in pass rush situations. Good observation.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:31 AM   #6
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Someone here did an analysis of his performance that year (2009) and it showed decisively that most of his production came when he was lined up as a DE with his hand on the ground in the 4 man front....not standing up at OLB in the 3-4 alignment.
Adding to that Doom is a huge liability is pass coverage and run stopping and a base 3-4 is just a bad idea
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:40 AM   #7
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Well the way we run a lot of our 4-3 under looks it is basically a 3-4.
Fox was pretty open about this when he was hired. He said the base formation maybe be "4-3," but he prefers flexibility and simply adjusting the defense based upon the personnel and what the situation is on gameday.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:41 AM   #8
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I'll trust Fox over DP beat writers every day of the week and twice on Sundays
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:46 AM   #9
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I see a lot of 5-2 alignments already. Heck, Obiozor is listed as a DE but he's got a LBer's number--54.

wtf?

Yah, it's all hybrid all the time anyway.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:57 AM   #10
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Well the way we run a lot of our 4-3 under looks it is basically a 3-4.
I agree when Miller is pass rushing it is basically a 3-4 defense. As long as Von and Doom are out there rushing the QB you can call it whatever you want.
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:05 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by lolcopter View Post
Our run defense sucks. A 3-4 will not help this

Denver Post trying to sell papers, that's it


Plus you need an elite NT to have even a halfway decent 3-4, and we have nobody for that. Hell, look at the chorfs reaching in the draft trying to fill that role. Simple fact is college/NFL personnel is flush with 4-3 talent, 3-4 talent not so much
BS, you don't need an elite NT to make the switch. we didn't have one a couple yrs ago under nolan when we switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4. Doom had his best yr as a bronco. we should've stayed commited to the 3-4.
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:06 AM   #12
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Because we need more of our crappy linebackers on the field!
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:11 AM   #13
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Because we need more of our crappy linebackers on the field!
von & doom aren't too shabby,but I guess you disagree.
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:13 AM   #14
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BS, you don't need an elite NT to make the switch. we didn't have one a couple yrs ago under nolan when we switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4. Doom had his best yr as a bronco. we should've stayed commited to the 3-4.
Agree to disagree. I've had this argument with you before so i dont expect you to change your mind anytime soon, but if you really think Doom is a good LB outside of strict pass rushing situations I dunno what to say

As someone mentioned earlier, most of his production in 09 came with a hand in the dirt

And outside of those first 6 games, Nolan's defense was sh*t
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:14 AM   #15
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von & doom aren't too shabby,but I guess you disagree.
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:15 AM   #16
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Because we need more of our crappy linebackers on the field!
Maybe we just go nickel package when they rush the QB. Give Moore a LB number too. I think the opponent will totally believe that one. It does keep the LBs to a minimum....hell, make it a dime package.
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:16 AM   #17
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Because we need more of our crappy linebackers on the field!
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:21 AM   #18
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Maybe we just go nickel package when they rush the QB. Give Moore a LB number too. I think the opponent will totally believe that one. It does keep the LBs to a minimum....hell, make it a dime package.
In passing downs, we basically play a 3-4. Doom and Von are standing up. But in a base package when you need your OLB's to fight off blocks and the MLB's fill gaps, we would be putting our worst players in run support on the field - and that includes Dumervil and for right now, Miller. That's why this idea wouldn't work. There are some advantages in that I think some of Mays' weaknesses like his poor range, would be limited in the 34, but at the end of the day, no. We would suck in the 34.
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:35 AM   #19
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Our run defense looks goo dthus far this year in preseason from our firsts. Our pass coverage is good too...and just wait until the DB's realize they don't have to cover for 5-8 seconds because of our pass rush. This defense is going to be good.
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:38 AM   #20
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I'm hoping the Broncos keep Obiozor too, especially with Hunter going down with an injury.
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:45 AM   #21
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In passing downs, we basically play a 3-4. Doom and Von are standing up. But in a base package when you need your OLB's to fight off blocks and the MLB's fill gaps, we would be putting our worst players in run support on the field - and that includes Dumervil and for right now, Miller. That's why this idea wouldn't work. There are some advantages in that I think some of Mays' weaknesses like his poor range, would be limited in the 34, but at the end of the day, no. We would suck in the 34.
Disagree on Miller being one of our worst run support players. He blew up a lot of running plays last last year.
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:47 AM   #22
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Disagree on Miller being one of our worst run support players. He blew up a lot of running plays last last year.
Not to mention that blow up and fumble scoop in the first preseason game
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Old 08-21-2012, 11:37 AM   #23
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Not to mention that blow up and fumble scoop in the first preseason game
Um the running back dropped the ball on a muffed fumble. Miller did have some tackles for losses, but he often was out of position and was benched in several games because he was not playing the run correctly. That's a fact that Miller himself admitted he needs to improve on.
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Old 08-21-2012, 11:40 AM   #24
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Um the running back dropped the ball on a muffed fumble. Miller did have some tackles for losses, but he often was out of position and was benched in several games because he was not playing the run correctly. That's a fact that Miller himself admitted he needs to improve on.
yeah, you are right. They were taking him out of the lineup on first downs and replacing him with Mays, I believe.
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Old 08-21-2012, 11:55 AM   #25
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http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...fensive-scheme

Kiszla is a freaking clown. End of story.
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