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Old 08-12-2012, 11:05 AM   #101
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Also the Pats are looking to sign Chad Clifton. Brady could be in trouble this year.
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:33 AM   #102
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That is an interesting tidbit
We are talking when Peyton was still evolving. It was the early 2000's not much past his rookie deal. That Patriot D was always one step ahead of Peyton.. Helps when you know what the offense is running. Interestingly Peyton began to master the Audible at the line to account for defensive schemes and force other teams to match his move and reveal their hand, or get burned.

We all know Indy always had a putrid D, for him to state that as the sole reason Peyton was deprived of a handful + of Super Bowl appearances is stating the obvious. And multiple missed field goals by the idiot kicker, some cheating by the Patriots, and a lack of a D all contributed to less rings on his fingers.
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:38 AM   #103
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We are talking when Peyton was still evolving. It was the early 2000's not much past his rookie deal. That Patriot D was always one step ahead of Peyton.. Helps when you know what the offense is running. Interestingly Peyton began to master the Audible at the line to account for defensive schemes and force other teams to match his move and reveal their hand, or get burned.

We all know Indy always had a putrid D, for him to state that as the sole reason Peyton was deprived of a handful + of Super Bowl appearances is stating the obvious. And multiple missed field goals by the idiot kicker, some cheating by the Patriots, and a lack of a D all contributed to less rings on his fingers.

I like it when you share your Peyton knowlage.

Don't know why some here tend to give you a hard time.
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:09 PM   #104
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Cutler is a very interesting dilemma. No, I don't believe Elway would have gotten rid of Cutler. Therefore, we never would have gotten Manning. I guess everything depends on if you believe Cutler could have gotten us to a SB or not.

I would say no...

Manning has attracted Caldwell, Tamme, Dreessen, Porter, Adams, Florence, Brooking, and Leonhard. Hopefully we'll get more help next year in FA, as well. Cutler hasn't attracted jack sh*t to Chicago, except his old buddies. If he was a good leader, he would have attracted better OL FA's by now. He did get to the NFC Championship game, but that might be as far as they go...time will tell.

Good point, although I hate McDaniels, and acknowledge him as the worst Coach/GM in the history of the Broncos...in a way, it had to happen in order for us to get where we are today.

Plus, I like Von Miller. I think Von and Wolfe are leaders that the Defense needed to be able to beat the Patriots. We don't draft Von if we aren't the 2nd worst team in the NFL in 2010. Sometimes, to reach the top, you have to through the valley first.
Good points but overall..

Tanahan IIRC made all personnel that used to play in DEN persona non grata, at the practices, sidelines in the Boxes owned by the Broncos.. ONLY Pat had the balls to invite John to his box on sunday..

With perhaps the exception of Rod Smith who was asked or volunteered to mentor the moron AKA BM.. I did nto recall any oldies invited in to give a speech or interact with Tanahans boys.

MAybe I missed something living 900 miles away and I'm sure that I will hear about it if I'm wrong.. to which I will stand corrected..

But John had IIRC little love for how Tanahan ran his show and cutlet being the head case he was and IIRC felt he was entitled to a new contract along with the rest of the trio. I think he would have made basically the same decision that Josh did he was not going to win the big one and send his ass packing after DRAFTING a new guy to replace him.

 John was big on TEAM players much like Josh was So I'd guess that the decision would have been come to sooner or later...


As for Josh yep he made mistakes but had they placed a strong GM on the team also I'll guess that many of those mistakes would not have happened..
He did what many thought needed to be done make the team faster, bigger and smarter all the while trying to make it a TEAM where no one guy was treated better than the rest

All of this is IMHO..
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:10 PM   #105
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[QUOTE=Bacchus;3637777]
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The owner is a borderline child molester.

someone youd hit it a heart beat.. Sounds like jealousy to me..
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:22 PM   #106
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Only an unknowledgeable moron like yourself would talk about a different segment in time, post spy gate. Part of the reason Peyton mastered the audible at the line is because that spygate D lined up perfectly to stop Indys offense.
apples and strawberries..

DID Manning commandeer 20%+ of the yearly cap? yes or NO if not then how much did he get?

how many defensive top ten categories did INDY have while Manning was making a gazillion dollars each year?

As for NE trying to beat MAnning well actually they were kicking his ass most of the times he played them IIRC..

I think your wrong on many counts

From what I know of IND/Manning..
  • Tom Moore taught him everything he knew about the O..
  • Manning became the defacto OC of the team in the later years..
  • MAnning sucked up everything that Moore could teach him.
  • Manning called his own game because he was the master..
  • the QB finally took back control from the headset as he had mastered the complex playbook like none of the other QB's had..
thus the hurry up became their offense..

NOw perhaps since you followed INDy closer I'm wrong but I'll guess Tom/Peyton is a lot closer to the actual facts than your concoction..
 
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:23 PM   #107
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I think its jealousy, you?



Most def.

Shifting sports, I think the same applies to Coach "K" - and in all honesty, I can't stand Duke.

- but both Coach K and Belicheat are phenomenal role-models and leaders w/ uncanny knowledge of their trade.
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:28 PM   #108
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I have Always liked Belichick the coach and defended him as a coach. The man has some brilliant ideas and even better recruited the talent that can execute it. His genius is getting the right players to take away the strength of the other team on defense. On offense, he has also seen the decline of the safety as an opportunity. He is attacking the middle of the field with a tiny route genius he stole from miami in a brillaint trade (Welker) and drafts heavily early on the OL, DL, and got his two mismatch TE's in one draft.

The reasons not to like him have all been stated as well. He is a nightmare on the Public relations front. He has allowed football to control him, and not controlled himself. His Life off the field is sketchy and he will not only cross the line on the rules, he will cross it willingly and exploit that inside information and think its OK. If this was war, no problem. However, its not war. His failures as a HC in CLE lead him to a massive life makeover in which he put the team and winning before the rules and now is in win at all costs and take no prisoners mentality.

And, I have read just about every published work on the man. As a MHC and therapist, his life story is fascinating to me. The reverence he gets for winning in NE totally overlooks his misgivings in life. Sometimes, being good at what you do pays even though you use despicable means to achieve it. That is why I never became a Lawyer. I could not stomache the pure deception of the truth and justice every day just to win cases or outcomes. I could not sleep at night knowing what lengths I would have to go to simply to win cases.

Belichick is a fantastic coach and definitely HOF worthy if he can keep himself from getting caught cheating again. The more he coaches though, the less I believe he will make it without getting caught again IMHO. It's not in his desperate nature to win at all costs.
Outstanding POST

Unless he loses the locker room I suspect he will get another ring or two..

But he better hurry because Brady is not getting any younger..

I noticed your commentary about the drafting as hi lighted in RED.. I have seen that as a huge key to his success.. as I have always believed you win or lose at the LOS..
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:29 PM   #109
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Outstanding POST

Thanks guy.
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:58 PM   #110
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Outstanding POST

Unless he loses the locker room I suspect he will get another ring or two..

But he better hurry because Brady is not getting any younger..

I noticed your commentary about the drafting as hi lighted in RED.. I have seen that as a huge key to his success.. as I have always believed you win or lose at the LOS..
I do not know if they will win again, because they have become one dimensional like INDY was when they used to kick their ass. The defense was the reason they have not been as good recently. They no longer have the Dominant DL, the solid secondary, and the versatile LB core.

Until they get to respectable on defense again, which could be awhile, I think they just emulate INDY and have tons of worthless regular season wins and a bunch of playoff losses.
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:59 PM   #111
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Just saying.
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Old 08-12-2012, 03:05 PM   #112
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He looks like a more depressed than usual Elton John.
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:11 PM   #113
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All of this is IMHO..
I guess we'll find out in the coming years, which guy (Cutler or Manning) can get their team to a SB after starting from scratch. However, judging from the 1st preseason game, Chicago's GM isn't very good. I wonder if their is more trouble on the horizon with Cutler? Urlacher isn't getting any younger.

You're right, the good thing about Elway, is the focus on the Broncos culture, including a much higher visibility of former players. After viewing the first game, it is quite apparent that Elway has managed to assemble a perfect complement of coaching staff and players:

1. Fox has sound Defensive philosophy, and is a great lead man, allowing players to play, and assistant coaches to acquire what talent the need to succeed (Ex. letting JDR pick his man, Wolfe).

2. JDR has tons of of experience in the NFL, he and Fox form a solid duo with ample knowledge in the 4-3 base Defense, and good ability to evaluate Defensive talent.

3. Manning is an HOF QB, who needs the Offensive Coordinator to be hard-working, concise, and flexible enough to allow Manning do what he does best.

4. McCoy is an intelligent Offensive Coordinator with attention to detail. Last year, with Tebow, McCoy showed the ability to create an Offense that allowed a QB to succeed (for the most part, though I disliked the lack of short passes, and misuse of TE's). Most importantly, McCoy is willing to take a backseat to Manning, while providing valuable insight at the same time.
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:27 PM   #114
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Until they get to respectable on defense again, which could be awhile, I think they just emulate INDY and have tons of worthless regular season wins and a bunch of playoff losses.
The addition of Chandler Jones and Dont'a Hightower don't hurt. I think the Patriots Defense is back in effect in NE. They are as talented now, as they ever were (except now they don't have the cheating advantage) The problem with the Patriots appears to be the Offensive line. If Brian Waters doesn't return, the Patriots run game will suck (also factor McDaniels idiotic scheme into the equation). Solder can probably pull it together at LT, but Vollmer's back issues remind me of Ryan Harris.

It appears the Patriots are trying to emulate the 2006 Colts, and are doing a pretty good job. Their only problem is a lack of speed at the WR position. Adding Plaxico Burress would be smart, as it would put Welker in the slot in crucial situations where he should be. Protection may be a big problem for Brady this year, hindering the Patriots ability to take advantage of the entire football field. I'm hoping the Broncos pass rush can throttle Brady. We shall see.
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:30 PM   #115
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I do not know if they will win again, because they have become one dimensional like INDY was when they used to kick their ass. The defense was the reason they have not been as good recently. They no longer have the Dominant DL, the solid secondary, and the versatile LB core.

Until they get to respectable on defense again, which could be awhile, I think they just emulate INDY and have tons of worthless regular season wins and a bunch of playoff losses.
While I understand why they traded Seymour that IMO was the beginning of the end for the D..

Who could pass up two #1 picks for a guy that was going to be a UFA anyway..

alot like Tanahan did..
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:37 PM   #116
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I guess we'll find out in the coming years, which guy (Cutler or Manning) can get their team to a SB after starting from scratch. However, judging from the 1st preseason game, Chicago's GM isn't very good. I wonder if their is more trouble on the horizon with Cutler? Urlacher isn't getting any younger.

You're right, the good thing about Elway, is the focus on the Broncos culture, including a much higher visibility of former players. After viewing the first game, it is quite apparent that Elway has managed to assemble a perfect complement of coaching staff and players:

1. Fox has sound Defensive philosophy, and is a great lead man, allowing players to play, and assistant coaches to acquire what talent the need to succeed (Ex. letting JDR pick his man, Wolfe).

2. JDR has tons of of experience in the NFL, he and Fox form a solid duo with ample knowledge in the 4-3 base Defense, and good ability to evaluate Defensive talent.

3. Manning is an HOF QB, who needs the Offensive Coordinator to be hard-working, concise, and flexible enough to allow Manning do what he does best.

4. McCoy is an intelligent Offensive Coordinator with attention to detail. Last year, with Tebow, McCoy showed the ability to create an Offense that allowed a QB to succeed (for the most part, though I disliked the lack of short passes, and misuse of TE's). Most importantly, McCoy is willing to take a backseat to Manning, while providing valuable insight at the same time.
I'm not impressed with Mc COy other than he listened to the QB's this year and last and got out of their way and let them run the O they were comfortable with..

I do not think he designed it as much as picked their brains and put it down on paper when they were talking..

now some could call that a good man I do not thing he is inventive enough to be a Great OC.. merely a copy cat..

I would not blink a bit if they lost him to become a HC some where next year.. NOW JDR is another story I'm hoping he will become our Dick Labau a forever DC that Knows that is his spot in the NFL and his ONLY chance to get into the HOF..
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:37 PM   #117
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Good points but overall..

Tanahan IIRC made all personnel that used to play in DEN persona non grata, at the practices, sidelines in the Boxes owned by the Broncos.. ONLY Pat had the balls to invite John to his box on sunday..

I seem to remember not just Rod but Ed and also TD coming around the facility from time to time. Not that its relevant ot anything anyway. It is true that Elway wasn't around as much, possibly because it was prettly clear that he wanted to run a team, if he got his foot in the door, it would be hard for Shanny to keep him from eventually overpowering him, which wouldn't be acceptable and I agree with Shanny on that.

With perhaps the exception of Rod Smith who was asked or volunteered to mentor the moron AKA BM.. I did nto recall any oldies invited in to give a speech or interact with Tanahans boys.

MAybe I missed something living 900 miles away and I'm sure that I will hear about it if I'm wrong.. to which I will stand corrected..

But John had IIRC little love for how Tanahan ran his show and cutlet being the head case he was and IIRC felt he was entitled to a new contract along with the rest of the trio. I think he would have made basically the same decision that Josh did he was not going to win the big one and send his ass packing after DRAFTING a new guy to replace him.

Is this why Elway basically came out and said that moving Cutler was a mistake and something he wouldn't have done? Facts can be inconvienient things.

 John was big on TEAM players much like Josh was So I'd guess that the decision would have been come to sooner or later...


As for Josh yep he made mistakes but had they placed a strong GM on the team also I'll guess that many of those mistakes would not have happened..
He did what many thought needed to be done make the team faster, bigger and smarter all the while trying to make it a TEAM where no one guy was treated better than the rest

All of this is IMHO..
Some responses above.
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:48 PM   #118
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The addition of Chandler Jones and Dont'a Hightower don't hurt. I think the Patriots Defense is back in effect in NE. They are as talented now, as they ever were (except now they don't have the cheating advantage) The problem with the Patriots appears to be the Offensive line. If Brian Waters doesn't return, the Patriots run game will suck (also factor McDaniels idiotic scheme into the equation). Solder can probably pull it together at LT, but Vollmer's back issues remind me of Ryan Harris.

It appears the Patriots are trying to emulate the 2006 Colts, and are doing a pretty good job. Their only problem is a lack of speed at the WR position. Adding Plaxico Burress would be smart, as it would put Welker in the slot in crucial situations where he should be. Protection may be a big problem for Brady this year, hindering the Patriots ability to take advantage of the entire football field. I'm hoping the Broncos pass rush can throttle Brady. We shall see.
If Solder was the answer they wouldn't be working out Clifton. As for the D they replaced two players with 10 plus sacks with two rookies. That is not going to cut it. They already lost a guy that they wanted to start at MLB for the season as well. You overrate that OL and D so much it isn't even funny. The AFC East sucks and that saves the Pats every year, though I think Williams and the Bills are going make life hell for Brady this year.
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:52 PM   #119
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Some responses above.
really hard to quote and respond to Y'all that seem to think we will not get the jist of your post..

Quote:
I seem to remember not just Rod but Ed and also TD coming around the facility from time to time. Not that its relevant ot anything anyway. It is true that Elway wasn't around as much, possibly because it was prettly clear that he wanted to run a team, if he got his foot in the door, it would be hard for Shanny to keep him from eventually overpowering him, which wouldn't be acceptable and I agree with Shanny on that.

Is this why Elway basically came out and said that moving Cutler was a mistake and something he wouldn't have done? Facts can be inconvienient things.
Now do you know for sure that was coach/GM speak or if he meant it..

personally from what I heard John extended his hand to cutlet and got rebuffed..

I suspect that John was merely saying what most folks wanted to hear after Josh was fired and he was hired..

that it was a bad move..

As petulant as cutlet is I do not think that either Fox or Elway would have put up with his attitude especially wanting top dollar money when he is not close to being a top five QB..

That is just how I read the Johns..

maybe being this far away I missed something but Elway does not strike me as a guy that forgets snubs and stupid comments about cutlet having a stronger arm than Elway had..

like I said compound this with cutlet wanting a huge contract and with all the other starter quality QB's in the draft, I think they would have moved him in a heart beat..

Can you see John Fox the coach known for his running game getting on cutlet after he forced YET another pass into double or triple coverage and losing the ball and a chance to score..

talk about sulking on the sidelines aI suspect he would head into the player portal to mope this one out..

Anyone that saw cutlet fold like a cheap tent during the last SAN game with rivers and the Defense mocking him on the sidelines KNOWS that cutlet may never beat that team again..

That was the minute I knew he was gone from DEN.. spotting a division opponent 2 game each year was not going to happen..

again IMHO..

but you will never change my mind on it..

BTW cutlet will not be the driving force that wins a super blow in CHI he may be along for the ride but it will not be him that gets them there, the defense and ST's will make more difference than he does.. Just like they have since he has been there..
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:07 PM   #120
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apples and strawberries..

DID Manning commandeer 20%+ of the yearly cap? yes or NO if not then how much did he get?

how many defensive top ten categories did INDY have while Manning was making a gazillion dollars each year?

As for NE trying to beat MAnning well actually they were kicking his ass most of the times he played them IIRC..

I think your wrong on many counts

From what I know of IND/Manning..
  • Tom Moore taught him everything he knew about the O..
  • Manning became the defacto OC of the team in the later years..
  • MAnning sucked up everything that Moore could teach him.
  • Manning called his own game because he was the master..
  • the QB finally took back control from the headset as he had mastered the complex playbook like none of the other QB's had..
thus the hurry up became their offense..

NOw perhaps since you followed INDy closer I'm wrong but I'll guess Tom/Peyton is a lot closer to the actual facts than your concoction..
 
Twenty percent cap hit was much further down the road. We don't even need to go there with how bad cap management and GMing was with Indy. Peyton made stars of Harrison, Wayne, Collie, Clark, Tamme.. Etc. Indy not using their money well is a product of bad management.

You just said Manning had to learn and evolve, when NE had Indys # they were filming teams practicing. They were always in the right place at the right time, kind of weird huh? It was the early 2000s not the last five years.. Peyton profected the Audible at the LOS to compensate. Hence Peyton evolved..

Indy was a timing offense, perfected through years of repetitions. Their play book was not complicated. Why are you asking about their D? Their D was terrible. Had Peyton been on a team like the Ravens or Steelers, we are talking about 5-10 SB appearances and rings!

I love how Elway is putting a D around him, very excited for Peyton in Denver!
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:16 PM   #121
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Twenty percent cap hit was much further down the road. We don't even need to go there with how bad cap management and GMing was with Indy. Peyton made stars of Harrison, Wayne, Collie, Clark, Tamme.. Etc. Indy not using their money well is a product of bad management.

You just said Manning had to learn and evolve, when NE had Indys # they were filming teams practicing. They were always in the right place at the right time, kind of weird huh? It was the early 2000s not the last five years.. Peyton profected the Audible at the LOS to compensate. Hence Peyton evolved..

Indy was a timing offense, perfected through years of repetitions. Their play book was not complicated. Why are you asking about their D? Their D was terrible. Had Peyton been on a team like the Ravens or Steelers, we are talking about 5-10 SB appearances and rings!

I love how Elway is putting a D around him, very excited for Peyton in Denver!
so manning expecting 20% or more of the cap was all their fault?


Yes Manning was a man above men when changing the position although not sure many more IF any QB's will be given the ability to run no huddle like he has been..

 HAd they not spent that much on him do you think they may have had a better D?
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:20 PM   #122
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really hard to quote and respond to Y'all that seem to think we will not get the jist of your post.


Now do you know for sure that was coach/GM speak or if he meant it..

No I don't know for sure, although I suspect that it is unlikely that is GM speak, as even after Josh was fired, most people here didn't love Jay anymore, they just hated Josh. There were precious few of us left that still loved Jay, so he gained nothing by saying that, although I do apprecaite that he did basically confirm that his boss is a moron, which again we knew already.

personally from what I heard John extended his hand to cutlet and got rebuffed..

Maybe...I dont know one way or another. I'm not sure what extending his hand specifically entailed so I couldnt' comment on it, its too speculative.

I suspect that John was merely saying what most folks wanted to hear after Josh was fired and he was hired..

that it was a bad move..

See above.

As petulant as cutlet is I do not think that either Fox or Elway would have put up with his attitude especially wanting top dollar money when he is not close to being a top five QB..
I see nothing wrong in Cutler's attitude. No, the morally bankrupt party was the former coach and the club management. Don't piss him off unnecessarily and shove a stick in his eye and he'll be fine. Act like a jerk (like McD did) and he'll throw it back in your face....as he should. When the Dove Valley character assasination team comes out, you gotta respond accordingly. If anything Jay was too mild in his response. McD should have been thoroughly and utterly humiliated. The old man claimed after Shanny was fired that Jay would be the man. Treat him with the respect he deserves or burn. It's not that hard of a concept.


That is just how I read the Johns..

maybe being this far away I missed something but Elway does not strike me as a guy that forgets snubs and stupid comments about cutlet having a stronger arm than Elway had..
...maybe its not Cutler who's the petulant one, then

like I said compound this with cutlet wanting a huge contract and with all the other starter quality QB's in the draft, I think they would have moved him in a heart beat..
The issue re: contract only came up after the Cassel stuff came into play. There is no evidence to suggest he would have held out or whatever if Shanny remained the coach. A little more progress and he would be richly deserving of a massive extension. Stud physical talent with good mobility and constantly improving...yeah forget about the draft, he's got it all right there, its just a matter of progression. Pro Bowl in Year 3 and only getting better from there, esp with a great system in place and great supporting talent. Even with a garbage OC with a garbage line last year, he was having a super season and had them primed for a playoff berth...again.


Can you see John Fox the coach known for his running game getting on cutlet after he forced YET another pass into double or triple coverage and losing the ball and a chance to score..

talk about sulking on the sidelines aI suspect he would head into the player portal to mope this one out..

Anyone that saw cutlet fold like a cheap tent during the last SAN game with rivers and the Defense mocking him on the sidelines KNOWS that cutlet may never beat that team again..
Except that the last game he played he kicked the absolute **** out of San Diego. Are you really making these arguments?

That was the minute I knew he was gone from DEN.. spotting a division opponent 2 game each year was not going to happen..
He made his share of errors, as a second year starter...bigger problem IMO was arguably the worst defense of all time.
again IMHO..

but you will never change my mind on it..
Same here.

BTW cutlet will not be the driving force that wins a super blow in CHI he may be along for the ride but it will not be him that gets them there, the defense and ST's will make more difference than he does.. Just like they have since he has been there..
More responses above....apologize for using the blue thing I know you can't quote it easily but I can't cut and quote for each one, I've never really been able to do that. And yes..he will be a driving force in their Super Bowl. That team is nothing without him.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:37 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalBronco View Post
More responses above....apologize for using the blue thing I know you can't quote it easily but I can't cut and quote for each one, I've never really been able to do that. And yes..he will be a driving force in their Super Bowl. That team is nothing without him.
not even going to bother reading because I know I will want to refute it and not going to do your job sorting it out..

stop being lazy with the quoting/posting..
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:40 PM   #124
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Fine. Here you go...the responses:

1. No I don't know for sure, although I suspect that it is unlikely that is GM speak, as even after Josh was fired, most people here didn't love Jay anymore, they just hated Josh. There were precious few of us left that still loved Jay, so he gained nothing by saying that, although I do apprecaite that he did basically confirm that his boss is a moron, which again we knew already.

2. Maybe...I dont know one way or another. I'm not sure what extending his hand specifically entailed so I couldnt' comment on it, its too speculative

3. I see nothing wrong in Cutler's attitude. No, the morally bankrupt party was the former coach and the club management. Don't piss him off unnecessarily and shove a stick in his eye and he'll be fine. Act like a jerk (like McD did) and he'll throw it back in your face....as he should. When the Dove Valley character assasination team comes out, you gotta respond accordingly. If anything Jay was too mild in his response. McD should have been thoroughly and utterly humiliated. The old man claimed after Shanny was fired that Jay would be the man. Treat him with the respect he deserves or burn. It's not that hard of a concept.

4. ...maybe its not Cutler who's the petulant one, then

5.The issue re: contract only came up after the Cassel stuff came into play. There is no evidence to suggest he would have held out or whatever if Shanny remained the coach. A little more progress and he would be richly deserving of a massive extension. Stud physical talent with good mobility and constantly improving...yeah forget about the draft, he's got it all right there, its just a matter of progression. Pro Bowl in Year 3 and only getting better from there, esp with a great system in place and great supporting talent. Even with a garbage OC with a garbage line last year, he was having a super season and had them primed for a playoff berth...again.


6. Except that the last game he played he kicked the absolute **** out of San Diego. Are you really making these arguments?

7. He made his share of errors, as a second year starter...bigger problem IMO was arguably the worst defense of all time.

Again, I cant do the quote/post thing for each one, I am not that savvy, so this is the best I can do. Feel free to respond.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:17 PM   #125
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I can't wait for the Patriots to fade back into mediocrity after Brady retires.

Then assclowns like this can go back to rooting for a mediocre Red Sox club.
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