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Old 08-11-2012, 07:21 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by ClamChowdah View Post
People need to start respecting the greatest coach ever, the guy has 5 rings and 5 Superbowl appearances in 10 years.

I think its jealousy, you?

for loads of "fans" on opposing boards I think a YES is a big answer there..

in Broncos country in particular..

IMO most are pissed that we folded like a cheap tent in a stiff breeze after John retired.


Who stepped up to take the title but the NE Pats.. they did it with great drafting and player acquisitions and then of course some damned good coaching..

Those that thought Tanahan walked on water could nto stand seeing our dominant team fold up so quick and another team step in..

IN NE case they had built most of their team with solid draft choices since IIRC Craft took over..

Players that you build your teams foundation on..

Not like in DEN once most of those players that Tanahan had on the team when he walked in and those few tired old vets he managed to scourge up in the infancy of the FA
movement left he had nothing left as his drafts sucked..

At first I was one of them tought mickey was a God, but then started to realize that it was his own doing that cause our downfall..

Firing competent DC's because they wanted talent also. Then hanging onto those that sucked up to him that were incompetent.

Having a laughing-stock of a GM that rubber stamped his ideas on personnel..

I know that I will be blasted but many still think the clown was the greatest thing since sliced bread..

But I know what happened. some day they will get it..

As for BB hell of a coach that gets more out of his players than most..

Did he cheat? probably, but I suspect he was the only one that got caught..
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:22 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by ClamChowdah View Post
People need to start respecting the greatest coach ever, the guy has 5 rings and 5 Superbowl appearances in 10 years.

I think its jealousy, you?

for loads of "fans" on opposing boards I think a YES is a big answer there..

in Broncos country in particular..

IMO most are pissed that we folded like a cheap tent in a stiff breeze after John retired.


Who stepped up to take the title but the NE Pats.. they did it with great drafting and player acquisitions and then of course some damned good coaching..

Those that thought Tanahan walked on water could nto stand seeing our dominant team fold up so quick and another team step in..

IN NE case they had built most of their team with solid draft choices since IIRC Craft took over..

Players that you build your teams foundation on..

Not like in DEN once most of those players that Tanahan had on the team when he walked in and those few tired old vets he managed to scourge up in the infancy of the FA
movement left he had nothing left as his drafts sucked..

At first I was one of them tought mickey was a God, but then started to realize that it was his own doing that cause our downfall..

Firing competent DC's because they wanted talent also. Then hanging onto those that sucked up to him that were incompetent.

Having a laughing-stock of a GM that rubber stamped his ideas on personnel..

I know that I will be blasted but many still think the clown was the greatest thing since sliced bread..

But I know what happened. some day they will get it..

As for BB hell of a coach that gets more out of his players than most..

Did he cheat? probably, but I suspect he was the only one that got caught..
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:27 PM   #53
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That cost Peyton multiple Super Bowl appearances earlier in his career.
I'm late to the party on spygate but I doubt there is anyway to really know that what you claim is true.

Do you really think if the NFL believed that were true their only sanction would be a #1 pick and some cash?
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:34 PM   #54
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I can only speak for myself, but I hate him because his cheating has tarnished himself and the entire idea of being "the greatest coach ever." He might actually be that, but I'll never know because he runs an operation that cheats.

Tanahan got caught a few times with his hands in the till also..

I doubt there is a winning program out there that does not push the limits of the rules to the extreme.. Most do not get caught.. some do..
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:36 PM   #55
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If you havent seen all the FA's they have signed in past few years I'm not going to explain it to you. Trades too except NE seems to get a bit of a discount compared to other teams. Adalius Thomas, Moss, Haynesworth, Andre Carter, Stallworth 2x, Fred Taylor, etc. Their track record with drafting isn't great either. Brady has saved them only furthering the argument torwards a franchise QB.
Thats a myth

The Patriots have drafted more all pros than any other team between 2002-2011, there has been a few bad drafts but the 2010 draft is one of the best drafts by any team for years.

We got McCourty, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Spikes, Cunningham, Mesko and Deaderick from the same draft they are all still on the team and contributing that is almost unheard of.

All Pros by Team 2002-2011
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:40 PM   #56
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Because his cheating teams robbed Peyton of multiple SB appearances.
YO moron it was the lack of defenses that cost Peyton chances..

It WAS PEYTON that was costing Y'all 20% + of your salary cap each year..

If they had an extra $10 mil or so to spend on D perhaps you would have won more title chances.. but some one thought all it took was out scoring the the other team instead of playing some defense from time to time..

some people's kids..
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:46 PM   #57
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I'm late to the party on spygate but I doubt there is anyway to really know that what you claim is true.

Do you really think if the NFL believed that were true their only sanction would be a #1 pick and some cash?
I could totally see the league not doing as much because it is the Pats...the same Pats that have a deal with CBS. Can't make both of them look bad.

I didn't start disliking BB/Pats until their 18-1 season. Beating up on teams like the Dolphins and other crappy teams. Running up the score, going for it on 4th down and going for 2 etc. Then theres the little pooch punt by Brady on 3rd down in the playoff game...its **** like that that makes me not like them. And obviously the whole spy gate thing.

There isn't anything to like about those sore losers. Losing to the Giants twice in the SB was awesome!
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:55 PM   #58
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I could totally see the league not doing as much because it is the Pats...the same Pats that have a deal with CBS. Can't make both of them look bad.

I didn't start disliking BB/Pats until their 18-1 season. Beating up on teams like the Dolphins and other crappy teams. Running up the score, going for it on 4th down and going for 2 etc. Then theres the little pooch punt by Brady on 3rd down in the playoff game...its **** like that that makes me not like them. And obviously the whole spy gate thing.

There isn't anything to like about those sore losers. Losing to the Giants twice in the SB was awesome!
Ya I don't like their ways either.

The reason why the NFL could not sweep this under the rug is because of the betting.

Word gets out to book makers that there are unknown anomalies (cheating) affecting the outcome of the game and it's all over.
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:58 PM   #59
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Elway has upgraded the roster to the point where we can hopefully kick the crap out of the Patriots this year, only 2 years after McDaniels completely dismantled the organization.
I just can;t let this stand..

this team was a schell of its old self when Tanahan was fired.

the 08 Defense had 8 of 11 starters either out of football in 09 or not starting for any other team..

Our red zone run blocking was the joke of the NFL and while we had the#2 offense during the previous year. we were 19th in scoring..

there was a lot to dismantle..

a hot-headed QB that would probably never win another game against SAN because of the ass kicking they put on him in the last game they played..

a Moron WR that has been the locker room cancer of at least two teams, someone who was one b**** slap away from doing time and or a very long suspension.

a TE that has rarely been heard of since cutlet left..

so what did he really dismantle the OL remained in tact until Hamilton was proven to be the weak link I thought he was in pass protect. Got rid of an old vet OC that was not in the long-term plans of rebuilding the OL that other than Kuper and Clady were not worth a crap for pass protection..


SO what did he do that was so wrong?

Drafted a couple of OL guys that have started every game since they came into the league, even though the OL coaching has sucked since Gibbs left..

DId he make some poor co=hoices on draft day yep but lets not even start to compare them with that of Tanahan..

John has seen the issues that have been left since almost when he retired and has started to adress them.. Lets hope he has ten times the success that Tanahan and Josh did..
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Old 08-11-2012, 08:23 PM   #60
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Thats a myth

The Patriots have drafted more all pros than any other team between 2002-2011, there has been a few bad drafts but the 2010 draft is one of the best drafts by any team for years.

We got McCourty, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Spikes, Cunningham, Mesko and Deaderick from the same draft they are all still on the team and contributing that is almost unheard of.

All Pros by Team 2002-2011

Great find..

add to those with these players drafted before that list.. how many of these were all pros at least once if not multiple time..
Code:
2001 - New England Patriots
RD 	SEL # 	PLAYER 	POSITION 	SCHOOL
1 	6 	Richard Seymour 	DT 	Georgia
2 	48 	Matt Light 	T 	Purdue
1999 - New England Patriots
RD 	SEL # 	PLAYER 	POSITION 	SCHOOL
1 	17 	Damien Woody 	C 	Boston College
1 	28 	Andy Katzenmoyer 	MLB 	Ohio State
2 	46 	Kevin Faulk 	RB 	Louisiana State
1998 - New England Patriots
RD 	SEL # 	PLAYER 	POSITION 	SCHOOL
1 	18 	Robert Edwards 	RB 	Georgia
1 	22 	Tebucky Jones 	DB 	Syracuse
1997 - New England Patriot
RD 	SEL # 	PLAYER 	POSITION 	SCHOOL
1 	29 	Chris Canty 	DB 	Kansas State
1996 - New England Patriots
RD 	SEL # 	PLAYER 	POSITION 	SCHOOL
1 	7 	Terry Glenn 	WR 	Ohio State
2 	36 	Lawyer Milloy 	SS 	Washington
3 	86 	Tedy Bruschi 	LB 	Arizona
1995 - New England Patriots
RD 	SEL # 	PLAYER 	POSITION 	SCHOOL
1 	23 	Ty Law 	CB 	Michigan
2 	57 	Ted Johnson 	ILB 	Colorado
3 	74 	Curtis Martin 	RB 	Pittsburgh

1994 - New England Patriots
RD 	SEL # 	PLAYER 	POSITION 	SCHOOL
1 	4 	Willie McGinest 	OLB 	USC
A Couple or three of those guys will be HOF..
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Old 08-11-2012, 08:28 PM   #61
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once a cheater always a cheater
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Old 08-11-2012, 08:31 PM   #62
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Tanahan once a cheater always a cheater

fixed that for you..
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Old 08-11-2012, 08:33 PM   #63
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fixed that for you..
when did Shanahan ever cheat?
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Old 08-11-2012, 08:34 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by ClamChowdah View Post
People need to start respecting the greatest coach ever, the guy has 5 rings and 5 Superbowl appearances in 10 years.

I think its jealousy, you?

Pete Rose is baseball's all-time hits leader....great player, but he'll always be known as the guy who bet on baseball and that stigma will always follow him.

OJ Simpson was a great NFL RB...ran for over 2,000 yards in 14 game season no less...but he'll always be known as the guy who got away with murder.

Bill Belichick has 5 SB rings, and 5 AFC titles as HC...however he'll always be known as the guy that cheated when he spied on an opposing team.


Maybe that's why?
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Old 08-11-2012, 08:34 PM   #65
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Pete Rose is baseball's all-time hits leader....great player, but he'll always be known as the guy who bet on baseball and that stigma will always follow him.

OJ Simpson was a great NFL RB...ran for over 2,000 yards in 14 game season no less...but he'll always be known as the guy who got away with murder.

Bill Belichick has 5 SB rings, and 5 AFC titles as HC...however he'll always be known as the guy that cheated when he spied on an opposing team.


Maybe that's why?
good points..

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Old 08-11-2012, 08:48 PM   #66
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but some one thought all it took was out scoring the the other team
you know teams that outscore their opponents have won 100% of those games
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Old 08-11-2012, 08:51 PM   #67
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when did Shanahan ever cheat?

If memory serves me right, Mike famous for manipulating the injury list....there was also the whole cut blocking thing...and Broncos were accused after winning back to back titles of some shady salary cap shennanigans
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Old 08-11-2012, 08:58 PM   #68
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If memory serves me right, Mike famous for manipulating the injury list....there was also the whole cut blocking thing...and Broncos were accused after winning back to back titles of some shady salary cap shennanigans
every team manipulates the injury list. It's a running joke among all us fans

most teams cut block not to mention it is legal

that was between Bowlen and Elway. The only reason we lost a 3rd rd pic was because of all the wining al davis did.

None of your reasons warrant calling Shanny a cheat.
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:02 PM   #69
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every team manipulates the injury list. It's a running joke among all us fans

most teams cut block not to mention it is legal

that was between Bowlen and Elway. The only reason we lost a 3rd rd pic was because of all the wining al davis did.

None of your reasons warrant calling Shanny a cheat.
Cheating the cap is as bad as cheating gets, cheater.
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:11 PM   #70
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Cheating the cap is as bad as cheating gets, cheater.
Yes there were some cap irregularities but that was not on Shanahan like the poster claimed.
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:13 PM   #71
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I forgot to mention their fans...Boston fans are about obnoxious as it gets...their city wins a few championships and their heads explode...
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:15 PM   #72
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I just can;t let this stand..

this team was a schell of its old self when Tanahan was fired.
That's what happens when you try to learn Defense on the job like Shanahan did, all he needed was a really good Defensive Coordinator (like Nolan, or Del Rio), and a good GM (like Elway). McDaniels drove the Broncos to their worst record in history (4-12) and the 2nd overall pick in the draft.

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the 08 Defense had 8 of 11 starters either out of football in 09 or not starting for any other team..
Shanahan Off./Def. starters still on the Broncos: 5 (Bailey, Williams, Kuper, Clady, Dumervil)

Shanahan Off./Def. players starting on other teams: 5 (Kern, Cutler, Marshall, Wiegmann (ret.), Pears)

McDaniels Off./Def. starters still on the Broncos: 6 (Decker, Thomas, Beadles, Walton, Hunter, Mays)

McDaniels Off./Def. players starting on other teams: 0

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Our red zone run blocking was the joke of the NFL and while we had the#2 offense during the previous year. we were 19th in scoring..
McDaniels scoring Offenses, and red-zone Offenses were far worse.

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SO what did he do that was so wrong?
Out of McDaniels 5 first round draft picks (in 2 years), 4 do not start, or are no longer on the team.

None of McDaniels 10 draft picks in 2009 are starters.

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Drafted a couple of OL guys that have started every game since they came into the league, even though the OL coaching has sucked since Gibbs left..
According to PFF, Walton is the worst starting Center in the NFL, and Beadles is the 4th worst starting Guard in the NFL. This is after a year of being coached by Dave Magazu, one of the best OL coaches in the NFL, and two full years of starting. Prompting the Broncos to draft another Center (Blake), and speculation of replacing Beadles in the starting line-up.

If it was up to McDaniels, Kyle Orton would still be the starter.
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:30 PM   #73
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every team manipulates the injury list. It's a running joke among all us fans

most teams cut block not to mention it is legal

that was between Bowlen and Elway. The only reason we lost a 3rd rd pic was because of all the wining al davis did.

None of your reasons warrant calling Shanny a cheat.
I never called him a cheat...just gave you some food for thought as to why others might call him one
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:38 PM   #74
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I never called him a cheat...just gave you some food for thought as to why others might call him one
Never said you did.


I said your examples were not very good ones.
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:38 PM   #75
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I also forgot to mention that before the season had even ended, the Pats some how were able to hire McD onto the team in the middle of the playoffs. How is that even possible??
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