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Old 08-04-2012, 01:59 PM   #1
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Default Josina Anderson reports from Broncos camp where Peyton Manning will take part in his first scrimmage

Josina Anderson reports from Broncos camp where Peyton Manning will take part in his first scrimmage with the Denver Broncos.










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Old 08-04-2012, 02:03 PM   #2
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Old 08-04-2012, 02:13 PM   #3
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FACT or FICTION:

Peyton Manning will lead the Broncos to more than 8 wins this season.






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Old 08-04-2012, 03:14 PM   #4
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FACT or FICTION:

Peyton Manning will lead the Broncos to more than 8 wins this season.






How many more times will commentators mention preseason strength of schedule before someone shows them statistical analysis that proves it means nothing?
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:50 PM   #5
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How many more times will commentators mention preseason strength of schedule before someone shows them statistical analysis that proves it means nothing?
I'm still waiting for someone to point out the rest of the teams in our division play basically the same schedule.

It's become really cool to pick Denver to suck this year. I have yet to hear a single analyst pick us to win the division. People keep saying we're favorites, but then no one actually picks us. I don't care, mind you, and would prefer to have people pick against us, but how many times do you have to be picked to not win the division - or in this case - not even get above .500 before you aren't the favorites anymore?
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:50 PM   #6
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:53 PM   #7
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How can anyone not predict us to win 10+ games this season? I mean personally I can totally see it happening because I don't trust our defense one bit, but to predict it after we went 8-8 with Tebow and then signed Manning? I don't get that.
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:01 AM   #8
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How can anyone not predict us to win 10+ games this season? I mean personally I can totally see it happening because I don't trust our defense one bit, but to predict it after we went 8-8 with Tebow and then signed Manning? I don't get that.

1. They saying Manning is one hit away from dying.
2. Strenght of schedule.




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Old 08-05-2012, 09:17 AM   #9
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How can anyone not predict us to win 10+ games this season? I mean personally I can totally see it happening because I don't trust our defense one bit, but to predict it after we went 8-8 with Tebow and then signed Manning? I don't get that.
While the reason most national media wouldn't predict that amount focuses mostly on the schedule I have a slightly different take. Let me know if this is confusing...

At the surface, as you said, it would appear the team went 8-8 with Tebow and then upgraded to Manning - so they should easily win 10. Here's my take: the Broncos that went 8-8, or more specifically the Broncos that went 7-5 with Tebow are not the same team Manning is taking over. That team won games because a very conservative offense didn't turn the ball over much and ran an option attack that wore down defenses - helping to open rushing lanes for both Tebow and McGahee. That offense forced defenses to play coverages you don't see that often in the NFL and gave a young receiving corps the opportunity to get open for bigger plays. That offense forced defenses to sit back and sometimes only rush 3 guys, making it easier to pass protect. In essence, for all of Tebow's weaknesses his skillset as a mobile QB and the coaching staff's adaptation to those skills helped mask a lot of weaknesses. Weaknesses that were apparent in the first five games under Kyle Orton, the 1-4 Broncos that I view Peyton Manning is taking over...

Had there been no QB change last season, I imagine the Broncos finish somewhere in the 3-13 to 4-12 range - and that's not all on Orton. If you think back to those first four games, the Broncos had difficulty sustaining a running game. Yes the team that finished the year leading the league in rushing had to actually abandon the run at times because they couldn't do so at a pro-style offense. That same offense line struggles pass protecting for a classic drop back passer (struggles that reared their head in yesterday's scrimmage). And all the while, the primary target on offense was a player traded at midseason.

That, my friends, is the team Peyton Manning is inheriting. Now we all know what a massive upgrade he'll be over Orton and that helps to make up for a lot. But make no mistake, this team is largely the one that struggled to a 1-4 start. Now hopefully Manning's presence takes some pressure off the run game, and his quick release makes up for the OL, and he can help develop this young WR corps. Those are all possibilities and that's why I look at the Broncos as a 9 win team. But to me, that's not saying Manning was only 1 game improvement over Tebow but actually a 5-6 game improvement over the team I saw Orton QB. If they can add significantly more talent by next year I certainly think a SB run is possible but for all of Manning's greatness we shouldn't dismiss the things Tebow and that "gimmicky offense" helped to cover up.
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:14 AM   #10
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I think alot of people are gonna be eating a huge **** burger when all is said and done.
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:41 AM   #11
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EEEEE ESSSS PEEE EENNNNNNNN

Dat wuz sum gud reportn
Jeremy Schaap does it the worst. Jeramy Scheeappp....eeeeeee esss peeee innnnnn.
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:43 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by montrose View Post
While the reason most national media wouldn't predict that amount focuses mostly on the schedule I have a slightly different take. Let me know if this is confusing...

At the surface, as you said, it would appear the team went 8-8 with Tebow and then upgraded to Manning - so they should easily win 10. Here's my take: the Broncos that went 8-8, or more specifically the Broncos that went 7-5 with Tebow are not the same team Manning is taking over. That team won games because a very conservative offense didn't turn the ball over much and ran an option attack that wore down defenses - helping to open rushing lanes for both Tebow and McGahee. That offense forced defenses to play coverages you don't see that often in the NFL and gave a young receiving corps the opportunity to get open for bigger plays. That offense forced defenses to sit back and sometimes only rush 3 guys, making it easier to pass protect. In essence, for all of Tebow's weaknesses his skillset as a mobile QB and the coaching staff's adaptation to those skills helped mask a lot of weaknesses. Weaknesses that were apparent in the first five games under Kyle Orton, the 1-4 Broncos that I view Peyton Manning is taking over...

Had there been no QB change last season, I imagine the Broncos finish somewhere in the 3-13 to 4-12 range - and that's not all on Orton. If you think back to those first four games, the Broncos had difficulty sustaining a running game. Yes the team that finished the year leading the league in rushing had to actually abandon the run at times because they couldn't do so at a pro-style offense. That same offense line struggles pass protecting for a classic drop back passer (struggles that reared their head in yesterday's scrimmage). And all the while, the primary target on offense was a player traded at midseason.

That, my friends, is the team Peyton Manning is inheriting. Now we all know what a massive upgrade he'll be over Orton and that helps to make up for a lot. But make no mistake, this team is largely the one that struggled to a 1-4 start. Now hopefully Manning's presence takes some pressure off the run game, and his quick release makes up for the OL, and he can help develop this young WR corps. Those are all possibilities and that's why I look at the Broncos as a 9 win team. But to me, that's not saying Manning was only 1 game improvement over Tebow but actually a 5-6 game improvement over the team I saw Orton QB. If they can add significantly more talent by next year I certainly think a SB run is possible but for all of Manning's greatness we shouldn't dismiss the things Tebow and that "gimmicky offense" helped to cover up.
So we gave up $96 million only to lose more games than we did with Tebow? $96 million out the door and we're still rebuilding? Is that the gist of it?
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:46 AM   #13
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How can anyone not predict us to win 10+ games this season? I mean personally I can totally see it happening because I don't trust our defense one bit, but to predict it after we went 8-8 with Tebow and then signed Manning? I don't get that.
I predict 9-7. Adjustment and schedule is why they don't get anymore wins. I still think they win the West though.
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:12 PM   #14
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How can anyone not predict us to win 10+ games this season? I mean personally I can totally see it happening because I don't trust our defense one bit, but to predict it after we went 8-8 with Tebow and then signed Manning? I don't get that.
Well... I am with the 9+ bunch. If we win 11 game or more with the schedule we have, that means we have a SB type roster. I am not sure we are there yet, but the optimist in me always has us going 16-0 no matter who we have on the roster.

But we do have a very tough schedule... that's the only reason I say we win 9+ games.
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:52 PM   #15
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Well... I am with the 9+ bunch. If we win 11 game or more with the schedule we have, that means we have a SB type roster. I am not sure we are there yet, but the optimist in me always has us going 16-0 no matter who we have on the roster.

But we do have a very tough schedule... that's the only reason I say we win 9+ games.
I am in the 10 win camp. More Importantly I expect us to make the ATFCCG. Now that we've ditched Timmy Deadweight the sky is the limit.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:17 PM   #16
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While the reason most national media wouldn't predict that amount focuses mostly on the schedule I have a slightly different take. Let me know if this is confusing...

At the surface, as you said, it would appear the team went 8-8 with Tebow and then upgraded to Manning - so they should easily win 10. Here's my take: the Broncos that went 8-8, or more specifically the Broncos that went 7-5 with Tebow are not the same team Manning is taking over. That team won games because a very conservative offense didn't turn the ball over much and ran an option attack that wore down defenses - helping to open rushing lanes for both Tebow and McGahee. That offense forced defenses to play coverages you don't see that often in the NFL and gave a young receiving corps the opportunity to get open for bigger plays. That offense forced defenses to sit back and sometimes only rush 3 guys, making it easier to pass protect. In essence, for all of Tebow's weaknesses his skillset as a mobile QB and the coaching staff's adaptation to those skills helped mask a lot of weaknesses. Weaknesses that were apparent in the first five games under Kyle Orton, the 1-4 Broncos that I view Peyton Manning is taking over...

Had there been no QB change last season, I imagine the Broncos finish somewhere in the 3-13 to 4-12 range - and that's not all on Orton. If you think back to those first four games, the Broncos had difficulty sustaining a running game. Yes the team that finished the year leading the league in rushing had to actually abandon the run at times because they couldn't do so at a pro-style offense. That same offense line struggles pass protecting for a classic drop back passer (struggles that reared their head in yesterday's scrimmage). And all the while, the primary target on offense was a player traded at midseason.

That, my friends, is the team Peyton Manning is inheriting. Now we all know what a massive upgrade he'll be over Orton and that helps to make up for a lot. But make no mistake, this team is largely the one that struggled to a 1-4 start. Now hopefully Manning's presence takes some pressure off the run game, and his quick release makes up for the OL, and he can help develop this young WR corps. Those are all possibilities and that's why I look at the Broncos as a 9 win team. But to me, that's not saying Manning was only 1 game improvement over Tebow but actually a 5-6 game improvement over the team I saw Orton QB. If they can add significantly more talent by next year I certainly think a SB run is possible but for all of Manning's greatness we shouldn't dismiss the things Tebow and that "gimmicky offense" helped to cover up.
Yeah, no. Here's what's wrong with this point of view. Several of those games we lost specifically because of Orton - Orton being terrible on third down, Orton fumbling the ball to the Raiders on their thirty yard line, Orton failing to move the offense into field goal range. Orton was one of the biggest weaknesses on the team. There were games we won IN SPITE of Orton, ala the Bengals game, where the defense produced a big stop. Then the offense had to come out and just get a couple first downs. Orton did nothing and we had to punt again. Miraculously the defense held them again and we won.

When Tebow started, we started having more clutch scoring success - especially in the redzone - but our on the field production was largely inconsistent. We were bailed out by more clutch defensive play that kept the other team close, and some really good special teams that we haven't seen in some time - both in kicking, punting and returns.

Between the special teams keeping some points on the board and forcing long drives for the opponents, as well as clutch defensive play, we were able to hang around in every game long enough for Tebow to turn it on.

Now, did we beat on some crappy teams? Yes. Some of those teams were bad enough on offense that that formula worked pretty well. Having said that, the defense dealt with a lot of TOP due to the unproductive offense all year. They rarely played with any kind of lead at all which actually played against our strengths and we still showed up.

As I said in my breakdown, the Broncos are much improved in a variety of way - between the improved play at receiver, the improved depth at corner, a healthy Ty Warren, more youth at running back, Jack Del Rio as a DC and of course PFM there are a lot of areas we've improved. The Defense and special teams has had to play on "hard" mode all last year. The offense has been pass protecting for two of the easiest to sack QB's in the league. Adding Manning along changes everything - from the ability to move the ball and score, to how much effort the team is going to put into perfecting themselves. Manning is going force everyone to do more and that will show on the field.

So I don't get the "this is a 7-9" football team argument at all.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:24 PM   #17
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I'm still waiting for someone to point out the rest of the teams in our division play basically the same schedule.

It's become really cool to pick Denver to suck this year. I have yet to hear a single analyst pick us to win the division. People keep saying we're favorites, but then no one actually picks us. I don't care, mind you, and would prefer to have people pick against us, but how many times do you have to be picked to not win the division - or in this case - not even get above .500 before you aren't the favorites anymore?
I saw on CBSSportline somebody picked Den at 11-5 and winning the Div. At this point it's useless to speculate though. Nobody has played a single PS game, long way to go before opening day.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:34 PM   #18
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While the reason most national media wouldn't predict that amount focuses mostly on the schedule I have a slightly different take. Let me know if this is confusing...

At the surface, as you said, it would appear the team went 8-8 with Tebow and then upgraded to Manning - so they should easily win 10. Here's my take: the Broncos that went 8-8, or more specifically the Broncos that went 7-5 with Tebow are not the same team Manning is taking over. That team won games because a very conservative offense didn't turn the ball over much and ran an option attack that wore down defenses - helping to open rushing lanes for both Tebow and McGahee. That offense forced defenses to play coverages you don't see that often in the NFL and gave a young receiving corps the opportunity to get open for bigger plays. That offense forced defenses to sit back and sometimes only rush 3 guys, making it easier to pass protect. In essence, for all of Tebow's weaknesses his skillset as a mobile QB and the coaching staff's adaptation to those skills helped mask a lot of weaknesses. Weaknesses that were apparent in the first five games under Kyle Orton, the 1-4 Broncos that I view Peyton Manning is taking over...

Had there been no QB change last season, I imagine the Broncos finish somewhere in the 3-13 to 4-12 range - and that's not all on Orton. If you think back to those first four games, the Broncos had difficulty sustaining a running game. Yes the team that finished the year leading the league in rushing had to actually abandon the run at times because they couldn't do so at a pro-style offense. That same offense line struggles pass protecting for a classic drop back passer (struggles that reared their head in yesterday's scrimmage). And all the while, the primary target on offense was a player traded at midseason.

That, my friends, is the team Peyton Manning is inheriting. Now we all know what a massive upgrade he'll be over Orton and that helps to make up for a lot. But make no mistake, this team is largely the one that struggled to a 1-4 start. Now hopefully Manning's presence takes some pressure off the run game, and his quick release makes up for the OL, and he can help develop this young WR corps. Those are all possibilities and that's why I look at the Broncos as a 9 win team. But to me, that's not saying Manning was only 1 game improvement over Tebow but actually a 5-6 game improvement over the team I saw Orton QB. If they can add significantly more talent by next year I certainly think a SB run is possible but for all of Manning's greatness we shouldn't dismiss the things Tebow and that "gimmicky offense" helped to cover up.
I can see 10 wins. The D backfield is better. Better tacklers, I think and hope. Hopefully no longer at the bottom of the league in 20+, 30+, 40+ plays allowed.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:38 PM   #19
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This team is flawed all over. Plus alot of unknowns. People always bring up 9 wins. We were a whiskers away from being a 4 or 5 win team too. Plus the ball really bounced our way last year. If the ball doesn't bounce our way we could be very average again

1. Manning he is a great player but, he hasn't played in awhile and still recovering. New team new system. First 8 games are tough for a team trying to gel and getting over the rust.

2. I still don't buy our front 7 against good or great teams.

3. Still think our interior OL is weak we'll see how it actually does

If we gel real fast and stay pretty healthy we can win 10 plus games.

I can just as easily see a average to poor season because of our flaws, bad health and not gelling fast enough. What if Manning struggles more then we all expect this year.

It will be fun seeing how this all works out.

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Old 08-05-2012, 01:38 PM   #20
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Yeah, no. Here's what's wrong with this point of view. Several of those games we lost specifically because of Orton - Orton being terrible on third down, Orton fumbling the ball to the Raiders on their thirty yard line, Orton failing to move the offense into field goal range. Orton was one of the biggest weaknesses on the team. There were games we won IN SPITE of Orton, ala the Bengals game, where the defense produced a big stop. Then the offense had to come out and just get a couple first downs. Orton did nothing and we had to punt again. Miraculously the defense held them again and we won.

When Tebow started, we started having more clutch scoring success - especially in the redzone - but our on the field production was largely inconsistent. We were bailed out by more clutch defensive play that kept the other team close, and some really good special teams that we haven't seen in some time - both in kicking, punting and returns.

Between the special teams keeping some points on the board and forcing long drives for the opponents, as well as clutch defensive play, we were able to hang around in every game long enough for Tebow to turn it on.

Now, did we beat on some crappy teams? Yes. Some of those teams were bad enough on offense that that formula worked pretty well. Having said that, the defense dealt with a lot of TOP due to the unproductive offense all year. They rarely played with any kind of lead at all which actually played against our strengths and we still showed up.

As I said in my breakdown, the Broncos are much improved in a variety of way - between the improved play at receiver, the improved depth at corner, a healthy Ty Warren, more youth at running back, Jack Del Rio as a DC and of course PFM there are a lot of areas we've improved. The Defense and special teams has had to play on "hard" mode all last year. The offense has been pass protecting for two of the easiest to sack QB's in the league. Adding Manning along changes everything - from the ability to move the ball and score, to how much effort the team is going to put into perfecting themselves. Manning is going force everyone to do more and that will show on the field.

So I don't get the "this is a 7-9" football team argument at all.
well said Kaylor. Fact is that when Fox put in his offense it exposed Orton for what he was, a shakey starting QB that benefited from McD's offense and really, really benefited from circus catches by Brandon Lloyd.

With no off season and no heart, Orton was exposed for what he is, a crappy starting NFL QB. He sucked in the redzone he sucked when the pressure was on.
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Old 08-05-2012, 03:11 PM   #21
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Yeah, no. Here's what's wrong with this point of view. Several of those games we lost specifically because of Orton - Orton being terrible on third down, Orton fumbling the ball to the Raiders on their thirty yard line, Orton failing to move the offense into field goal range. Orton was one of the biggest weaknesses on the team. There were games we won IN SPITE of Orton, ala the Bengals game, where the defense produced a big stop. Then the offense had to come out and just get a couple first downs. Orton did nothing and we had to punt again. Miraculously the defense held them again and we won.

When Tebow started, we started having more clutch scoring success - especially in the redzone - but our on the field production was largely inconsistent. We were bailed out by more clutch defensive play that kept the other team close, and some really good special teams that we haven't seen in some time - both in kicking, punting and returns.

Between the special teams keeping some points on the board and forcing long drives for the opponents, as well as clutch defensive play, we were able to hang around in every game long enough for Tebow to turn it on.

Now, did we beat on some crappy teams? Yes. Some of those teams were bad enough on offense that that formula worked pretty well. Having said that, the defense dealt with a lot of TOP due to the unproductive offense all year. They rarely played with any kind of lead at all which actually played against our strengths and we still showed up.

As I said in my breakdown, the Broncos are much improved in a variety of way - between the improved play at receiver, the improved depth at corner, a healthy Ty Warren, more youth at running back, Jack Del Rio as a DC and of course PFM there are a lot of areas we've improved. The Defense and special teams has had to play on "hard" mode all last year. The offense has been pass protecting for two of the easiest to sack QB's in the league. Adding Manning along changes everything - from the ability to move the ball and score, to how much effort the team is going to put into perfecting themselves. Manning is going force everyone to do more and that will show on the field.

So I don't get the "this is a 7-9" football team argument at all.
I agree with this completely! Where is Orton now? Back up QB in Dallas! We forget how terrible he was and how unenthused he looked out there! The worst time being a Broncos fan was with him as QB. I knew if the game was on the line he wouldn't be able to pull it out...usually throwing a pick or a sack fumble! Now we have Manning and we won't win 8+??
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Old 08-05-2012, 03:35 PM   #22
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This team is flawed all over. Plus alot of unknowns. People always bring up 9 wins. We were a whiskers away from being a 4 or 5 win team too.
I hate this argument. It's total crap because you can argue it both ways.

We were also 13 points total from being a 11-5 team; 12 wins including the playoffs. The margin of our three of our loses at the beginning of the season were around 3.4 points per game.

Sorry, but this is why you are what your record is. We were the best 8-8 team in a crappy division.
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Old 08-05-2012, 04:08 PM   #23
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So we gave up $96 million only to lose more games than we did with Tebow? $96 million out the door and we're still rebuilding? Is that the gist of it?
No, they got Manning to win a title which I think could happen before he hangs 'em up. I just think they need more talent to beat the upper echelon teams in the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
Yeah, no. Here's what's wrong with this point of view. Several of those games we lost specifically because of Orton - Orton being terrible on third down, Orton fumbling the ball to the Raiders on their thirty yard line, Orton failing to move the offense into field goal range. Orton was one of the biggest weaknesses on the team. There were games we won IN SPITE of Orton, ala the Bengals game, where the defense produced a big stop. Then the offense had to come out and just get a couple first downs. Orton did nothing and we had to punt again. Miraculously the defense held them again and we won.

When Tebow started, we started having more clutch scoring success - especially in the redzone - but our on the field production was largely inconsistent. We were bailed out by more clutch defensive play that kept the other team close, and some really good special teams that we haven't seen in some time - both in kicking, punting and returns.

Between the special teams keeping some points on the board and forcing long drives for the opponents, as well as clutch defensive play, we were able to hang around in every game long enough for Tebow to turn it on.

Now, did we beat on some crappy teams? Yes. Some of those teams were bad enough on offense that that formula worked pretty well. Having said that, the defense dealt with a lot of TOP due to the unproductive offense all year. They rarely played with any kind of lead at all which actually played against our strengths and we still showed up.

As I said in my breakdown, the Broncos are much improved in a variety of way - between the improved play at receiver, the improved depth at corner, a healthy Ty Warren, more youth at running back, Jack Del Rio as a DC and of course PFM there are a lot of areas we've improved. The Defense and special teams has had to play on "hard" mode all last year. The offense has been pass protecting for two of the easiest to sack QB's in the league. Adding Manning along changes everything - from the ability to move the ball and score, to how much effort the team is going to put into perfecting themselves. Manning is going force everyone to do more and that will show on the field.

So I don't get the "this is a 7-9" football team argument at all.
You'll never hear an argument from me that Orton isn't god awful and I think Manning fixes a lot. I also like a lot of the additions you mentioned but I would honestly put the Broncos personnel surrounding the QB in the middle of the pack. On the OL, there's two guys I trust and one is coming off a major injury. We're projecting the WRs and TEs to play well but it's not like they have the track records of guys playing those positions for the Pats, Giants, Packers etc.

You can pretty much apply this to all of their players, I think the Broncos will be in pretty good shape but its not like the group is littered with proven players. When you throw in the fact they play a lot of good teams this year, thinking it's a 9 or 10 win team IMO is big time praise. But if you were take out Manning and even put in an average pocket QB - lets say Matt Hasselbeck - I don't think the Broncos are better than a 6 win team, at least this year. That's not a huge knock, the Colts were 2-14 without Manning; but I don't think the Broncos supporting cast stacks up with the top tier teams... yet.
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:58 PM   #24
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Kuper was on a radio interview and said we don't have to worry about the D-line, said they're pretty good. I don't know if that is worth a hill of beans, but Kuper doesn't talk much to the press, so ......
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