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Old 08-01-2012, 09:54 AM   #1
houghtam
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Default Do Pee Wee players need to have killer instincts?

I know everyone hates Reilly, but this was an interesting article.

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"My objectives are simple," the coach wrote. "We need to become better, tougher and more aggressive blockers, tacklers and runners. Tackle football isn't for everybody. It takes a certain mindset, an aggressive or killer instinct if you will

Think of your team! The summer camp sessions will be short, but intense. Pre-season conditioning will be intense. In-season practices will be intense. Mental and physical toughness are also requirements. We must get tougher and through hard work, we will.

Players practice full throttle unless they are injured. It's about team! If you don't love being a Bulldog and can't whole heartedly commit, you are in the wrong place. You are either getting better or getting worse. We need to get better and it will take serious commitment. This e-mail is meant to set expectations. No surprises, full steam ahead. Thanks and Go Bulldogs!"
http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8...iller-instinct
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Old 08-01-2012, 09:58 AM   #2
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There is no reason to put your kid in Pee Wee football (risk injury and lack of fundamentals) and I will not allow my kid to play in football till junior high at the earliest.
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:14 AM   #3
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My pee wee sure has one.
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:15 AM   #4
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My pee wee sure has one.
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:15 AM   #5
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:25 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houghtam View Post
I know everyone hates Reilly, but this was an interesting article.

Quote:
"My objectives are simple," the coach wrote. "We need to become better, tougher and more aggressive blockers, tacklers and runners. Tackle football isn't for everybody. It takes a certain mindset, an aggressive or killer instinct if you will

Think of your team! The summer camp sessions will be short, but intense. Pre-season conditioning will be intense. In-season practices will be intense. Mental and physical toughness are also requirements. We must get tougher and through hard work, we will.

Players practice full throttle unless they are injured. It's about team! If you don't love being a Bulldog and can't whole heartedly commit, you are in the wrong place. You are either getting better or getting worse. We need to get better and it will take serious commitment. This e-mail is meant to set expectations. No surprises, full steam ahead. Thanks and Go Bulldogs!"



http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8...iller-instinct
This was written on the bulletin board in the gladiators locker room in Rome.
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:35 AM   #7
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I've coached for 10 years at the little league level - 4 coaching the oldest group (9th graders in a district where the 9th grade goes to jr high and there is no jr high ball) and the other 6 coaching my own kid through all the other groups.

I can tell you that by and large it has been my experience that the majority of pee wee FB coaches are nearly indistinguishable from the folks you see in the Black Hole at the Oakland Coliseum.

Neanderthals and mouth-breathers looking to regain past glory who think they are King Leonidas of Sparta and weaklings should be killed. Their idea of practice is lining up 25 yards apart, geting a full sprint and running into each other. Concussions are a crutch made up by p***Y ass liberals to make our boys more like women and if that kid who might not make weight is our best player, we need to make sure he doesn't eat dinner or breakfast before weigh ins and that we take all the pads out of his pants so he does make weight. Who cares if he's 10 - DON'T LET HIM EAT!

It's ridiculous. We have grown men teaching their kids to take kids out at the knee or hit leading with the head to the head to get kids out of games and when confronted on it they say "that's football" and call you a p***Y for even saying something about it.

Remember, I've coached for 10 years - been a head coach, a DC and an OC and we have never missed the playoffs so I know you can be successful without making your kids into felons.

Having said all that, football is a sport that takes a certain...mindset, especially as they get older, to really compete. You do have to play the game with aggression because if you don't, you run a big risk of getting hurt. But you can do that without being a complete animal and as these kids hit 13-14 years old and the hormones start raging, you don't really even need to coach it much. For many it is an acceptable release of pent up aggression natural at that age.

But kids that are 7, 8, 9, even up to 11 or 12? Yeah, I think it should be dialed down a few notches. Nothing is more pathetic to me than gangsta looking grown man with his fat gut, shaved head and goatee, barb wire tattoos and Raiders shirt screaming and yelling to little kids about killing someone or kicking their ass etc. etc.

Well, maybe it's worse when the guy looks like Ned Flanders and he's always the first guy to shout "Praise Jesus" at church and he is yelling at little kids telling them to kill someone or kick their ass etc. etc.
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:35 AM   #8
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There is no reason to put your kid in Pee Wee football (risk injury and lack of fundamentals) and I will not allow my kid to play in football till junior high at the earliest.
I'd rather have my kid learn the fundamentals at an early age so when he grows up he's used to hitting/being hit and knows how to do it properly

If an 8 year old boy isn't playing football or another kind of sport, he's damn sure doing something else that he's going to get hurt doing (building bicycle ramps, playing in woods, etc...)
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:50 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by TerrElway View Post
I've coached for 10 years at the little league level - 4 coaching the oldest group (9th graders in a district where the 9th grade goes to jr high and there is no jr high ball) and the other 6 coaching my own kid through all the other groups.

I can tell you that by and large it has been my experience that the majority of pee wee FB coaches are nearly indistinguishable from the folks you see in the Black Hole at the Oakland Coliseum.

Neanderthals and mouth-breathers looking to regain past glory who think they are King Leonidas of Sparta and weaklings should be killed. Their idea of practice is lining up 25 yards apart, geting a full sprint and running into each other. Concussions are a crutch made up by p***Y ass liberals to make our boys more like women and if that kid who might not make weight is our best player, we need to make sure he doesn't eat dinner or breakfast before weigh ins and that we take all the pads out of his pants so he does make weight. Who cares if he's 10 - DON'T LET HIM EAT!

It's ridiculous. We have grown men teaching their kids to take kids out at the knee or hit leading with the head to the head to get kids out of games and when confronted on it they say "that's football" and call you a p***Y for even saying something about it.

Remember, I've coached for 10 years - been a head coach, a DC and an OC and we have never missed the playoffs so I know you can be successful without making your kids into felons.

Having said all that, football is a sport that takes a certain...mindset, especially as they get older, to really compete. You do have to play the game with aggression because if you don't, you run a big risk of getting hurt. But you can do that without being a complete animal and as these kids hit 13-14 years old and the hormones start raging, you don't really even need to coach it much. For many it is an acceptable release of pent up aggression natural at that age.

But kids that are 7, 8, 9, even up to 11 or 12? Yeah, I think it should be dialed down a few notches. Nothing is more pathetic to me than gangsta looking grown man with his fat gut, shaved head and goatee, barb wire tattoos and Raiders shirt screaming and yelling to little kids about killing someone or kicking their ass etc. etc.

Well, maybe it's worse when the guy looks like Ned Flanders and he's always the first guy to shout "Praise Jesus" at church and he is yelling at little kids telling them to kill someone or kick their ass etc. etc.
Good post. Pee-Wee football coach is basically the same animal as wear your softball uniform to impress the chicks at Hooters guy. There are obviously some exceptions to the rule, but even if you find a decent coach with ethics, your son's team still has to play all of the douchers. The last thing I want is for some kid to neck tie tackle or viciously cut block my 7-year-old son, because the coach is trying to channel the high school "glory years" of his pathetic life. My kids are going to stay away from contact football until junior high. At that point, we'll decide if they have the desire to play and go from there.
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:56 AM   #10
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Bill Parcells would say "yes".

Back in 1986 when the SI "Crunch Course" video came out......Parcells said, "If they don't bite when they're puppies, then they're just not gonna bite."
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:11 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerrElway View Post
I've coached for 10 years at the little league level - 4 coaching the oldest group (9th graders in a district where the 9th grade goes to jr high and there is no jr high ball) and the other 6 coaching my own kid through all the other groups.

I can tell you that by and large it has been my experience that the majority of pee wee FB coaches are nearly indistinguishable from the folks you see in the Black Hole at the Oakland Coliseum.

Neanderthals and mouth-breathers looking to regain past glory who think they are King Leonidas of Sparta and weaklings should be killed. Their idea of practice is lining up 25 yards apart, geting a full sprint and running into each other. Concussions are a crutch made up by p***Y ass liberals to make our boys more like women and if that kid who might not make weight is our best player, we need to make sure he doesn't eat dinner or breakfast before weigh ins and that we take all the pads out of his pants so he does make weight. Who cares if he's 10 - DON'T LET HIM EAT!

It's ridiculous. We have grown men teaching their kids to take kids out at the knee or hit leading with the head to the head to get kids out of games and when confronted on it they say "that's football" and call you a p***Y for even saying something about it.

Remember, I've coached for 10 years - been a head coach, a DC and an OC and we have never missed the playoffs so I know you can be successful without making your kids into felons.

Having said all that, football is a sport that takes a certain...mindset, especially as they get older, to really compete. You do have to play the game with aggression because if you don't, you run a big risk of getting hurt. But you can do that without being a complete animal and as these kids hit 13-14 years old and the hormones start raging, you don't really even need to coach it much. For many it is an acceptable release of pent up aggression natural at that age.

But kids that are 7, 8, 9, even up to 11 or 12? Yeah, I think it should be dialed down a few notches. Nothing is more pathetic to me than gangsta looking grown man with his fat gut, shaved head and goatee, barb wire tattoos and Raiders shirt screaming and yelling to little kids about killing someone or kicking their ass etc. etc.

Well, maybe it's worse when the guy looks like Ned Flanders and he's always the first guy to shout "Praise Jesus" at church and he is yelling at little kids telling them to kill someone or kick their ass etc. etc.
Thanks for the insight and you're from Utah imagine what it's like in Florida, Texas or any inner city.

Last edited by baja; 08-01-2012 at 11:14 AM..
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:34 AM   #12
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I'd rather have my kid learn the fundamentals at an early age so when he grows up he's used to hitting/being hit and knows how to do it properly

If an 8 year old boy isn't playing football or another kind of sport, he's damn sure doing something else that he's going to get hurt doing (building bicycle ramps, playing in woods, etc...)

He can't be taught at a older age how to hit? That is ludicrous. And I wager that the chances of him learning how to do it correctly at the hands of a parent wanting to relive their high school glory days are slim.

Maybe, but it won't be because some douche bag parent is telling their kid to go hurt mine because theirs is getting their ass kicked. I can't help their bad genes.

Last edited by Rascal; 08-01-2012 at 11:36 AM..
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:43 AM   #13
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He can't be taught at a older age how to hit? That is ludicrous. And I wager that the chances of him learning how to do it correctly at the hands of a parent wanting to relive their high school glory days are slim.

Maybe, but it won't be because some douche bag parent is telling their kid to go hurt mine because theirs is getting their ass kicked. I can't help their bad genes.
is it possible to learn how to ski at an older age? sure, but it helps to learn it at a younger age because you haven't developed any other instincts....also, at an older age you might be more cautious or squeamish heading into hits which can cause injury...at a younger age I would just tend to argue that that fearlessness of contact and the "blank slate" of other instincts could be beneficial

again, this isn't to say either argument is the right one....if parents don't want their kids participating at a younger age, so be it
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:46 AM   #14
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I personally wouldn't mind having my 9 year old play for that coach. He moves at a snails pace. In coach pitch baseball, where the coaches were focused on teaching and not competition, a couple months ago he got yelled at for walking from 2nd base to 3rd base.I get tired of yelling at him to "MOVE!" A little drill instructor coach would do my boy some good. I would of course have to be at the practices though to make sure this coach doesn't get too out of line.
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:01 PM   #15
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I personally wouldn't mind having my 9 year old play for that coach. He moves at a snails pace. In coach pitch baseball, where the coaches were focused on teaching and not competition, a couple months ago he got yelled at for walking from 2nd base to 3rd base.I get tired of yelling at him to "MOVE!" A little drill instructor coach would do my boy some good. I would of course have to be at the practices though to make sure this coach doesn't get too out of line.
Far be it from me to ever tell anyone else how to be a parent, but...maybe it's not the coach who needs to get your boy in line.
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:04 PM   #16
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Far be it from me to ever tell anyone else how to be a parent, but...maybe it's not the coach who needs to get your boy in line.
I hear Jay Cutler is always available for disciplining children.
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Old 08-01-2012, 01:04 PM   #17
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With the pussies being pumped out in America today, I think pee wee football should be a requirement. I am not ready to welcome our Chinese masters. Those kids don't get trophies for participation, and that's why they are kicking our ass.
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Old 08-01-2012, 01:11 PM   #18
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With the pussies being pumped out in America today, I think pee wee football should be a requirement. I am not ready to welcome our Chinese masters. Those kids don't get trophies for participation, and that's why they are kicking our ass.
What a moronic take. Yep, it has nothing to do with trade agreements, cheap labor and a global economy. China is "kicking our ass" because not enough people are allowing a 45-year-old fat "coach" to teach their children to lead with the head in YAFL.
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Old 08-01-2012, 01:14 PM   #19
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if you want an extremely well rounded kid, have them grow up doing tumbling/gymnastics at a young age, then playing soccer. develop fundamental movements in those sports that can ONLY be truly developed at a young age. start football around 8th-9th grade.
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Old 08-01-2012, 01:16 PM   #20
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I hear Jay Cutler is always available for disciplining children.
oh man, where is that thread
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Old 08-01-2012, 01:19 PM   #21
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I've coached for 10 years at the little league level - 4 coaching the oldest group (9th graders in a district where the 9th grade goes to jr high and there is no jr high ball) and the other 6 coaching my own kid through all the other groups.

I can tell you that by and large it has been my experience that the majority of pee wee FB coaches are nearly indistinguishable from the folks you see in the Black Hole at the Oakland Coliseum.

Neanderthals and mouth-breathers looking to regain past glory who think they are King Leonidas of Sparta and weaklings should be killed. Their idea of practice is lining up 25 yards apart, geting a full sprint and running into each other. Concussions are a crutch made up by p***Y ass liberals to make our boys more like women and if that kid who might not make weight is our best player, we need to make sure he doesn't eat dinner or breakfast before weigh ins and that we take all the pads out of his pants so he does make weight. Who cares if he's 10 - DON'T LET HIM EAT!

It's ridiculous. We have grown men teaching their kids to take kids out at the knee or hit leading with the head to the head to get kids out of games and when confronted on it they say "that's football" and call you a p***Y for even saying something about it.

Remember, I've coached for 10 years - been a head coach, a DC and an OC and we have never missed the playoffs so I know you can be successful without making your kids into felons.

Having said all that, football is a sport that takes a certain...mindset, especially as they get older, to really compete. You do have to play the game with aggression because if you don't, you run a big risk of getting hurt. But you can do that without being a complete animal and as these kids hit 13-14 years old and the hormones start raging, you don't really even need to coach it much. For many it is an acceptable release of pent up aggression natural at that age.

But kids that are 7, 8, 9, even up to 11 or 12? Yeah, I think it should be dialed down a few notches. Nothing is more pathetic to me than gangsta looking grown man with his fat gut, shaved head and goatee, barb wire tattoos and Raiders shirt screaming and yelling to little kids about killing someone or kicking their ass etc. etc.

Well, maybe it's worse when the guy looks like Ned Flanders and he's always the first guy to shout "Praise Jesus" at church and he is yelling at little kids telling them to kill someone or kick their ass etc. etc.
yep, good stuff. When I was playing pee-wee football it was a lot of fun and that was because I had good coaches that made it fun. Fundamentals were taught, tackling was taught and playing aggressively was also taught but all of that comes with good coaching. When you love football, you love to hit and tackle so getting a young boy to do that should be relatively easy. The young boys who don't like that stuff wash out quickly. By the time junior high football rolls around you have the guys you've been playing with for years and the team just happens more naturally. Lot's of fun!
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Old 08-01-2012, 05:03 PM   #22
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I've coached for 10 years at the little league level - 4 coaching the oldest group (9th graders in a district where the 9th grade goes to jr high and there is no jr high ball) and the other 6 coaching my own kid through all the other groups.

I can tell you that by and large it has been my experience that the majority of pee wee FB coaches are nearly indistinguishable from the folks you see in the Black Hole at the Oakland Coliseum.

Neanderthals and mouth-breathers looking to regain past glory who think they are King Leonidas of Sparta and weaklings should be killed. Their idea of practice is lining up 25 yards apart, geting a full sprint and running into each other. Concussions are a crutch made up by p***Y ass liberals to make our boys more like women and if that kid who might not make weight is our best player, we need to make sure he doesn't eat dinner or breakfast before weigh ins and that we take all the pads out of his pants so he does make weight. Who cares if he's 10 - DON'T LET HIM EAT!

It's ridiculous. We have grown men teaching their kids to take kids out at the knee or hit leading with the head to the head to get kids out of games and when confronted on it they say "that's football" and call you a p***Y for even saying something about it.

Remember, I've coached for 10 years - been a head coach, a DC and an OC and we have never missed the playoffs so I know you can be successful without making your kids into felons.

Having said all that, football is a sport that takes a certain...mindset, especially as they get older, to really compete. You do have to play the game with aggression because if you don't, you run a big risk of getting hurt. But you can do that without being a complete animal and as these kids hit 13-14 years old and the hormones start raging, you don't really even need to coach it much. For many it is an acceptable release of pent up aggression natural at that age.

But kids that are 7, 8, 9, even up to 11 or 12? Yeah, I think it should be dialed down a few notches. Nothing is more pathetic to me than gangsta looking grown man with his fat gut, shaved head and goatee, barb wire tattoos and Raiders shirt screaming and yelling to little kids about killing someone or kicking their ass etc. etc.

Well, maybe it's worse when the guy looks like Ned Flanders and he's always the first guy to shout "Praise Jesus" at church and he is yelling at little kids telling them to kill someone or kick their ass etc. etc.
This hits a hot button for me, and its not just football.

Sports can teach invaluable life lessons about hard work, dedication, and teamwork. But depending on the coach, it can also teach "win at any price", including intentionally injuring an opponent in the name of a win.

Without adding all the ugly details, my daughter was a victim of an illegal slide tackle in a soccer game about two years ago which resulted in a severed PCL. The ortho doc said he had not seen an injury like it from sports - usually only head-on auto accidents (knee into the dash). Over five hours of surgery, over a year of reahab, and thousands of dollars in medical bills later she is playing again, but will never be the same.

I later learned that the coach of the opposing team had been explicitly encouraging that kind of play, and the player who did it had said just before going out on the field that she "was going to take someone out". She did.

There is a HUGE difference between dedicated preparation and tough play and "winning at any cost" including intentionally injuring an opponent. Sadly the rules in our league explicitly prohibited the type of slide tackle (cleats up, after the ball was gone) that caused the injury, but the rules will not overcome years of "bad coaching", especially when the games are officiated by kids barely older than the ones playing.
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:17 AM   #23
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There are a ton of great things about youth football, but there are also a ton of bad things about it. I've been involved in it as a parent and a coach for the past 8 years, with my son playing Pop Warner since the age of 8, and I started coaching it 3 years ago. I'd say that there are a lot of bad coaches (also at the high school level), and there are a lot of delusional parents. I learned about the issues with parents after I became a coach.

I'd say that kids who play Pop Warner have an advantage over the kids who don't when they get to high school, but it is not the deciding factor on whether or not a kid is going to be good on that level or not. I'd say that my son's progression has been greatly helped by playing for all of those years, and a lot of the best players on his team played Pop Warner. But players who wait until high school can still make it. And for skill position players, flag football is really better. My son, who is a WR, took two years off of tackle when he was 11 and 12 and played flag, and it helped him greatly.

A lot of parents do not get the purpose of youth football. A kid being good or bad at 8 years old is no indication of how good they will be when they get to the high school level. Parents need to realize that and stop worrying about their kid playing those prime positions. The team I'm coaching now is an 8 year old team, and I've been coaching a lot of these players since their first season at the age of 6. Some parents try to project what position their kid will play later in life and expect their kid to play those positions now. And they act as if we, the coaches, should have their kid in those positions. And they act like our play calling should be like what they watch on TV. Football for an 8 year old is nothing like it is for a 16 year old, or a professional player.

When my son started playing at 8, he was the youngest kid on the team and the smallest, so he got knocked around. He was a "must play" player, so when he got his 8 plays I knew he was coming out of the game. I knew that he'd have the body type of a WR/CB, but his first year, he played DT! And I didn't care. He ran around, made a couple tackles, and he got used to hitting and getting hit. His next two years he played with kids his age, so he got way more playing time, at LB and TE (which is pretty much playing O line). Again, I didn't care. He was playing. It didn't matter that he was playing positions that he'd never play when he got older. He didn't get the ball until he was 13 years old, his final year of Pop Warner, and he got beat up all season because our O line wasn't any good.

It wasn't until high school that he got to play his natural position. Now that he's in high school, he's balling. Last year as 10th grader on the JV team he had 900+ receiving yards and 18 touchdowns.

I think back to when he was 10, and he played on this team that two of his high school teammates played on. One kid was the MLB and RB, and he was a beast. He was cracking other kids. The other kid played WR, but there was nothing special about him, or my son. The one kid was the star of the team and if anybody had to guess, he'd be the one who would dominate in high school and have a chance to go somewhere. Well fast forward 6 years, the kid who played WR is a senior and is getting recruited by a few PAC 12 schools. If my son has a season like he did last year (he's already a starter on varsity), he's going to be heavily recruited heading into his senior year. The kid who was the star of the team way back then, he's a junior like my son, but he's the back up MLB, and the only way he's going to see the field is if the guy in front of him gets hurt. The guy in front of him has the makings of a really good player, but he's no blue chip player at this point.

Point is that these parents need to shut the hell up, leave the coaches alone, and just let their kid play and have fun. One parent last year would pull his kid from practice and have him do sprints because he said the kid wasn't fast enough. The kid was only 7! He also wanted his kid to play QB. We had him at LG. That father was pissed. The kid actually liked playing on the line because he liked to hit people, but that wasn't in the father's plan.

As for coaches, I've come to figure out that the yellers don't know how to coach. They yell because they don't know what to teach the player. They seem to think by yelling that the kid will just magically play better. They don't get that if they don't teach the kid the right way to do it, the kid will never get it right, and will just get yelled at all the time. Coaches who know what they're doing don't have to yell. They're too busy coaching.
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Old 08-02-2012, 06:56 AM   #24
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For most sports, team sports at least, if you don't start playing at an early age, you are not likely going to be very good. Sure, there are instances where that isn't the case, but generally speaking, waiting to play a sport when you are a teen against others who have been playing already a handful of years usually means you will be behind the rest and never able to catch up. Like I said, "generally." The key thing is to find coaches who can teach fundamentals at an early age since that is the very foundation they need in order to be able to handle the more advanced things later on.
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Old 08-02-2012, 07:31 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barryr View Post
For most sports, team sports at least, if you don't start playing at an early age, you are not likely going to be very good. Sure, there are instances where that isn't the case, but generally speaking, waiting to play a sport when you are a teen against others who have been playing already a handful of years usually means you will be behind the rest and never able to catch up. Like I said, "generally." The key thing is to find coaches who can teach fundamentals at an early age since that is the very foundation they need in order to be able to handle the more advanced things later on.
For the more non-contact sports like tball, gymnastics and soccer, sure. The earlier the better IMO. But for the full contact violent sports like football which the OP was referring to (and linked article was referring to), there's really nothing they're going to teach you at 6 that you couldn't learn at 10-12, and be "caught up" by the time you get to HS.

I don't think anyone in this thread has said you have to wait to be a teen. The most "extreme" said junior high, which for most would mean 11 or 12. Nothing wrong with that. And, as an alternative, you can always learn the fundamentals through a flag football program at 9 or 10.
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