The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-09-2012, 04:52 AM   #1
chrisp
Friend of the unsung
 
chrisp's Avatar
 
Not into the football......yet

Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: London UK
Posts: 1,335

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Danny Trevathan
Default Kevin Vickerson

I seem to recall the new coaching staff was pretty high on Vickerson when they came in, and pencilled him in a starter alongside some very positive comments. Then he got injured in 2011 and we never really got to see if the coaches had been smoking crack or if the scheme and coaching change really benefitted him or not.

Supposedly now he's healthy, so I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on him - I seem to recall that there was a mix of horror blended with incomprehension on this board last year when the coaches seemed to say he would amount to something, and I know that anyone suggesting that our current defensive tackles are anything other utter garbage tends to get tarred and feathered around here, so I'm assuming that I'll get the usual invective-laden description of him from most of you, I'm just curious as to whether anyone has any insight to offer, or any further background on why the coaches seemed high on him last year.

Just for the record, I'm not saying that I rate the guy or have any great level of expectation for him. I just think its odd that the new coaching staff seemed to pick him out last year, and its certainly true to say that these coaches seem to know more about playing defense than the last lot did....(which ain't saying much I know...)
chrisp is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 04-09-2012, 06:06 AM   #2
Ronnie Tsunami
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

likely part of the reason why we haven't done anything to address DT this offseason
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 06:10 AM   #3
BroncoInferno
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,257
Default

Whether we think it wise or not, the only thing that makes sense with the lack of urgency paid to DT this offseason is that they are counting on production from both Vickerson and Warren. They may like the DT depth in the draft as well, but they have to be aware that DT is typically a slow developing position. They must be pleased with Vickerson's and Warren's injury progress and feel confident in their ability to make major contributions.
BroncoInferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 06:15 AM   #4
cmhargrove
Is this thing on???
 
cmhargrove's Avatar
 
Travis Henry's love child...

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 6,723

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton Hillis
Default

Here's my favorite pic where he looks like he is getting ready to eat McD as a mid-game snack...
Attached Images
 
cmhargrove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 06:24 AM   #5
Gcver2ver3
Ring of Famer
 
Gcver2ver3's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 6,581

Adopt-a-Bronco:
replace hillman
Default

For last year, I believe EFX projected their starters at DT as vickerson and warren...

So with our lack of movement in free agency regarding the position i have to assume they are banking on those two yet again...

Unless there is a trade in the works we're unaware of...

As we all know, its unwise to rely on rookie DTs to be instant impactful starters...

With all this said, fox did publicy acknowledge our hole at DT, so who knows...
Gcver2ver3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 06:24 AM   #6
HooptyHoops
We need a DE
 
HooptyHoops's Avatar
 
C'mon D

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 1,591

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Eddie Royal
Default

Well, at this point, I'm hoping is the savior at the DT position!!
HooptyHoops is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 06:37 AM   #7
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 19,108
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoInferno View Post
...but they have to be aware that DT is typically a slow developing position...
Not to mention a high bust rate position. I really hope they haven't put themselves in a position where they have to reach for a DT in the draft. This team really needs to go BPA.
TonyR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 06:46 AM   #8
chrisp
Friend of the unsung
 
chrisp's Avatar
 
Not into the football......yet

Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: London UK
Posts: 1,335

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Danny Trevathan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoInferno View Post
Whether we think it wise or not, the only thing that makes sense with the lack of urgency paid to DT this offseason is that they are counting on production from both Vickerson and Warren. They may like the DT depth in the draft as well, but they have to be aware that DT is typically a slow developing position. They must be pleased with Vickerson's and Warren's injury progress and feel confident in their ability to make major contributions.
I'm inclined to agree with you. I think when Fox referred to having a hole at DT he may well have been talking about lack of depth as much as anything else. Its pretty rare to get an immediate starter at that position in the draft as even the best prospects tend to take a year or two to gear up to the pros.

Just wondering what people's actual thoughts are on vickerson though: he wasn't drafted high, but he's stuck around for a 7th round draft pick. I'm inclined to think he could be solid if unspectacular, a bit like Bunkley was to be honest.

Gut feel is it seems to be relatively easy to find guys who are solid against the run, but guys who can do that whilst also adding something to the pass rush are rare as hen's teeth. This would explain why we've been relatively cool on the position in FA and also makes me think we go for the bst pass-rushing DT available to us at #25 as a developmental prospect.
chrisp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 07:24 AM   #9
gyldenlove
Ring of Famer
 
gyldenlove's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nęstved, DK
Posts: 11,090

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Spencer Larsen
Default

I think the funny thing about where we are at with DT right now is that Vickerson and Warren were supposed to be our starters last year if not for injury and then bringing Bunkley - we in essence go into this year with the exact same starters as we did last year.

Don't get me wrong, I know we have no depth and both our "starters" have been out of football for a while and have injury concerns, so I do realize we need to add to the position, but the out and out panic that we don't have a DT on the roster is a bit misplaced.
gyldenlove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 07:58 AM   #10
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 
United In Orange

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 9,087
Default

Vickerson's 4 tackles in 5 starts we're VERY promising, last year... Just imagine what he could do if he started the WHOLE year.
pricejj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 08:08 AM   #11
maher_tyler
Ring of Famer
 
maher_tyler's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 6,257

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Champ Bailey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
Vickerson's 4 tackles in 5 starts we're VERY promising, last year... Just imagine what he could do if he started the WHOLE year.
As long as he can stop the run we'll be fine. Lets hope and pray he and Warren can stay healthy and make some plays for us. Same can be said of Irving..if not, we're going to playing in a lot of high scoring games!
maher_tyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 08:14 AM   #12
Tombstone RJ
Ring of Famer
 
Tombstone RJ's Avatar
 
Old School

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Tetons!
Posts: 22,120

Adopt-a-Bronco:
WorrellWilliams
Default

The problem with Vickerson (and Warren) is can they stay healthy? When Vickerson has played he's been pretty good. If I was EFX I would not count on both Vickerson and Warren being healthy for the upcoming season. In fact, I'd count on each or both of them missing significant playing time due to injuries.

IMHO if EFX thinks that Vickerson and Warren are going to be the starting DTs in the base 4-3 then they are also saying they will be drafting guys to come in and play behind Vickerson and Warren, knowing full well that these rooks will get playing time.
Tombstone RJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 08:15 AM   #13
Beantown Bronco
Athletic Supporter
 
Beantown Bronco's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mass
Posts: 20,251

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Matt Prater
Default

I still can't understand anyone even attempting to make an argument for Ty Warren as a potential starter this year. I just can't understand the logic there. The guy has either been hurt or largely ineffective for like 3.5-4 years now. Hell, Albert Haynesworth has been better more recently than him and he'd be significantly cheaper than Warren, yet people here throw up at the mere sound of his name.
Beantown Bronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 08:17 AM   #14
Gcver2ver3
Ring of Famer
 
Gcver2ver3's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 6,581

Adopt-a-Bronco:
replace hillman
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
Vickerson's 4 tackles in 5 starts we're VERY promising, last year... Just imagine what he could do if he started the WHOLE year.
Thats not the best way to measure a DTs worth...

So as long as he takes care of his gap and frees mays up to make the tackles i'm good...

Tackles for losses would be great too but i dont expect vickerson to be a world beater...
Gcver2ver3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 08:18 AM   #15
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 
United In Orange

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 9,087
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maher_tyler View Post
As long as he can stop the run we'll be fine. Lets hope and pray he and Warren can stay healthy and make some plays for us. Same can be said of Irving..if not, we're going to playing in a lot of high scoring games!
Stopping the run isn't going to matter much when Tom Brady and Co. drop 45 on us, because we can't get within 10 feet of the QB (and I have seen no indication that Vickerson is any good at stopping the run).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gcver2ver3 View Post
Tackles for losses would be great too but i dont expect vickerson to be a world beater...
Vickerson is penciled in as the starting UT right now. Just for some perspective, Vickerson has been in the NFL for 7 years...and only has 3.5 sacks.

Last edited by pricejj; 04-09-2012 at 08:22 AM..
pricejj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 08:22 AM   #16
BroncoInferno
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,257
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco View Post
I still can't understand anyone even attempting to make an argument for Ty Warren as a potential starter this year. I just can't understand the logic there. The guy has either been hurt or largely ineffective for like 3.5-4 years now. Hell, Albert Haynesworth has been better more recently than him and he'd be significantly cheaper than Warren, yet people here throw up at the mere sound of his name.
I don't disagree, but it's the only thing that makes sense given the lack of urgency at signing any DTs. Even if they aren't crazy about the guys available, they seemingly need at least a warm body if nothing else. And, yet, they don't seem in a hurry to sign anyone. They must be counting on Warren for a significant contribution, whether or not it aapears to make sense. Even if they love the DTs in the draft and plan on picking a couple, they have to be aware that DTs are slow to develope.
BroncoInferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 08:29 AM   #17
Gcver2ver3
Ring of Famer
 
Gcver2ver3's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 6,581

Adopt-a-Bronco:
replace hillman
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
Stopping the run isn't going to matter much when Tom Brady and Co. drop 45 on us, because we can't get within 10 feet of the QB (and I have seen no indication that Vickerson is any good at stopping the run).



Vickerson is penciled in as the starting UT right now. Just for some perspective, Vickerson has been in the NFL for 7 years...and only has 3.5 sacks.
Yes i know where is projected...

He's expected to be a 1 gap penetrater....

If he fulfills that duty it will open lanes for lbs to plug the run...

UTs have respnsibilties against the run too... i'm less worried about his sack production there...
Gcver2ver3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 08:29 AM   #18
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 
United In Orange

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 9,087
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoInferno View Post
I don't disagree, but it's the only thing that makes sense given the lack of urgency at signing any DTs. Even if they aren't crazy about the guys available, they seemingly need at least a warm body if nothing else. And, yet, they don't seem in a hurry to sign anyone. They must be counting on Warren for a significant contribution, whether or not it aapears to make sense. Even if they love the DTs in the draft and plan on picking a couple, they have to be aware that DTs are slow to develope.
I would almost gaurantee that Fox and Del Rio are planning on drafting a Alualu/Knighton-type combo in the first 3 rounds of the draft. Both players contributed right away for Del Rio in Jacksonville.
pricejj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 08:35 AM   #19
BroncoInferno
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,257
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
I would almost gaurantee that Fox and Del Rio are planning on drafting a Alualu/Knighton-type combo in the first 3 rounds of the draft. Both players contributed right away for Del Rio in Jacksonville.
We will see. Like I said, DTs are typically slow to develop, so we could have a rough go of it in the middle if they plan on two rookies starting right away.
BroncoInferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 08:36 AM   #20
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 
United In Orange

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 9,087
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gcver2ver3 View Post
Yes i know where is projected...

He's expected to be a 1 gap penetrater....

If he fulfills that duty it will open lanes for lbs to plug the run...

UTs have respnsibilties against the run too... i'm less worried about his sack production there...
Vickerson slimmed down to 285 lbs. last year to play the UT. Alfred Williams joked about him, saying he "Looked like Tarzan, played like Jane". Last year was supposed to be Vickerson's BIG year at UT...and he produced 4 tackles. All indicators show that Broncos invest at DT BIG TIME in the draft.

They have to believe that Worthy, Still, and Reyes are all worthy of 1st round picks, that at least one of them will be available @ #25, and they believe that pick will definitely contribute as a rookie. Del Rio seems to be able to get the best out of rookie Defensive Lineman.
pricejj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 08:37 AM   #21
DENVERDUI55
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

At what point do we bring fat Albert in on a cheap deal. He might play ok to try for a contract after. I never thought I would even think about bringing him in.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 08:42 AM   #22
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 
United In Orange

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 9,087
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoInferno View Post
We will see. Like I said, DTs are typically slow to develop, so we could have a rough go of it in the middle if they plan on two rookies starting right away.
I am sure Warren will start at NT, and Worthy or Still will start at UT. I would suspect they target Ta'amu in the 2nd, to back up Warren.

I don't necessarily agree with the way they are approaching this, but that seems to be their philosophy, as far as I can tell.
pricejj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 08:44 AM   #23
maher_tyler
Ring of Famer
 
maher_tyler's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 6,257

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Champ Bailey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
Vickerson's 4 tackles in 5 starts we're VERY promising, last year... Just imagine what he could do if he started the WHOLE year.
As long as he can stop the run we'll be fine. Lets hope and pray he and Warren can stay healthy and make some plays for us. Same can be said of Irving..if not, we're going to playing in a lot of high scoring games!
maher_tyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 09:21 AM   #24
Bacchus
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
Not to mention a high bust rate position. I really hope they haven't put themselves in a position where they have to reach for a DT in the draft. This team really needs to go BPA.
It won' be a reach. There are 7 DTs with a first round grade this year. So Denver will not reach in the first round.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 09:33 AM   #25
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 19,108
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
It won' be a reach. There are 7 DTs with a first round grade this year. So Denver will not reach in the first round.
Most of those 7 have some question marks. I doubt the Broncos, or any team, grades them all as first rounders. So lets say the Broncos have 4 of them as worth pick #25 or higher and they're all gone at 25. Do you "reach" and take one of the other 3 (draft by need) or take BPA?
TonyR is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:45 AM.


Denver Broncos