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Old 03-25-2012, 09:49 AM   #1
TonyR
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Default NYT article on Tebow's flaws

Denver’s playoff victory against Pittsburgh in January showcased the best, and the worst, of Tim Tebow.

He completed passes of 80, 58, 51, 40 and 31 yards in upsetting the Steelers in overtime, 29-23. It was his greatest professional performance, proof that he could beat a good opponent by throwing the ball, not just by running with it.

It was also a game in which Tebow completed just five other passes, completed less than 50 percent of his attempts, converted just three third downs and demonstrated that unconventional plays are typically the only plays he makes.

In evaluating Tebow, he has obvious assets like size and athleticism, and a superabundance of intangibles: work ethic, leadership and some elusive or illusory traits that make him “a winner.” He also has one obvious, glaring, potentially career-derailing tangible: Tebow does not throw the ball well.

“His mechanics are very poor,” said Greg Cosell, the executive producer of ESPN’s scouting-based “N.F.L. Matchup” show, “and that may never change.”

Cosell, who scrutinizes hundreds of hours of game film every year, can pinpoint flaws in Tebow’s motion that lead to off-target passes.

“His arm speed is very slow,” Cosell said. “People think he has a strong arm, but because his delivery is slow, it negates a lot of that arm strength.”

...

Quarterbacks with unorthodox throwing mechanics have thrived in the N.F.L., but only if they achieved an acceptable level of accuracy. Tebow’s 46.5 percent completion rate last season was the lowest of any starting quarterback since Cincinnati’s Akili Smith completed 44.2 percent of his passes in 2000. Smith soon vanished from the league.

Tebow’s completion percentage was actually inflated by the scheme the Broncos had designed for him. He threw a high percentage of wide receiver screens, which require little more skill than handoffs. Tebow completed 30 of 40 passes thrown to receivers at or behind the line of scrimmage. Those passes accounted for nearly a quarter of his completions; his completion rate for passes that actually traveled downfield was 41.6 percent.

Take away the screens, and Tebow is left with the schoolyard plays, three or four conventional completions per game, and the same number of incomplete passes Rodgers or Drew Brees typically throws while generating more than twice the number of passing yards and points that Tebow does.

Read the whole thing here: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/sp...laws.html?_r=1
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:57 AM   #2
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The type of passes, as mentioned, played a big part in the efficiency. I don't really recall a single game where Denver tried to really smooth the passing game over; it was run-run-3rd-and-long-pass in fashions so predictable even the least observant of fans could guess what was coming. Another factor were simply drops of which Denver had quite a lot. The Bears game, for example, Tebow was hitting receivers in the hands all game but nobody could hold onto the ball. That's not saying Tebow is an accurate thrower, because he isn't, but he is far better than those statistics show. He's also a smarter passer than most young players; outside of the Detroit/Buffalo game he rarely made any Plummer-esque errors that are typical for learning QBs.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:07 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
Tebow’s completion percentage was actually inflated by the scheme the Broncos had designed for him. He threw a high percentage of wide receiver screens, which require little more skill than handoffs.
Ummm...what?

I was screaming for screens every game the Broncos played with Tebow at the helm.

I watched every game from start to finish, and remember 3.

It's a complete falsehood that he threw a high percentage of screens, WR or otherwise.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:10 AM   #4
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Tebow won in dramatic fashion but can he win in conventional fashion. Prater , Barber and Tebow's legs will not be there to help him out every game.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:11 AM   #5
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I dont understand the WR screens comment. Tebow fans were screaming for these. I didn't see many thrown at all. That stat seems skewed.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:14 AM   #6
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It's a complete falsehood that he threw a high percentage of screens, WR or otherwise.
Agree. But don't throw the baby out with the bath water. A lot of good points in the article.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:21 AM   #7
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Tebow’s completion percentage was actually inflated by the scheme the Broncos had designed for him.
Tony continues his streak of posting awful articles.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:26 AM   #8
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The scheme in which his receivers dropped pass after pass artificially inflated his completion percentage.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:26 AM   #9
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good read. a very accurate take on tebow.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:29 AM   #10
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The scheme in which his receivers dropped pass after pass artificially inflated his completion percentage.
I have a hunch that Manning's completion % will be significantly higher this year than Tebow's was last year, and that the drop % will be lower. Do you feel differently?
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:30 AM   #11
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Tebow's biggest flaw was that he wasn't pretty. If he had better stats and lost, he'd be much more respected.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:33 AM   #12
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Tony continues his streak of posting awful articles.
yes. his usual formula...

a) i like Tebow the person
b) Tebow is awful and terrible and can't do anything that even the most retarded NFL QBs are supposed to be able to do
c) link to article that supports b)
d) respond to criticism by pointing to a)
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:35 AM   #13
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The type of passes, as mentioned, played a big part in the efficiency. I don't really recall a single game where Denver tried to really smooth the passing game over; it was run-run-3rd-and-long-pass in fashions so predictable even the least observant of fans could guess what was coming. Another factor were simply drops of which Denver had quite a lot. The Bears game, for example, Tebow was hitting receivers in the hands all game but nobody could hold onto the ball. That's not saying Tebow is an accurate thrower, because he isn't, but he is far better than those statistics show. He's also a smarter passer than most young players; outside of the Detroit/Buffalo game he rarely made any Plummer-esque errors that are typical for learning QBs.
The Lions game is an obvious choice. That carried over into the Chiefs game a couple of weeks later as well, although it was a very small sample size. They also asked Tebow to throw more timing routes at the end of the previous season as well. Even throughout the latter part of last season they attempted those routes several times a game, particularly in-cuts and drag routes. Tebow REALLY struggled both in ball placement and timing in those situations.

Bronco fans are going to find out this year that Eric Decker is a really good receiver. I've already posted screen grabs in various places of Decker working himself open and Tebow failing to pull the trigger, or when he did putting the ball in difficult to catch positions. That won't be an issue with Manning.

Look, I really enjoyed last season but if you didn't see that Tebow has obvious flaws then your just fooling yourself. He struggles with his decision making (see his stats against the blitz) and he really struggles on timing routes and rhythm passing (poor mechanics and footwork). Maybe there is an offense out there that you can design to work around those issues, but really any hope you have in Tebow is that he can magically fix it. Maybe he can improve on the mechanics (although I'm not convinced), but he has a LONG ways to go. Most NFL QB's come into the league with nearly flawless mechanics (even if they are "unorthodox" like a Phyliss Rivers), but often struggle with reading defenses and putting the ball in the right position at the right time. Most NFL QB's never get particularly proficient at it (hell Kyle Orton). Tebow is starting even farther back and after two seasons he hasn't shown much meaningful improvement.

So maybe he puts it all together, but I'm not particularly convinced that he will. I'm glad it will be on someone else's dime.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:42 AM   #14
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Everyone knows Tebow had flaws, stop with that pathetic take already. He displayed immeasurables that 2 percent of QB's in the NFL possess.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:46 AM   #15
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The Lions game is an obvious choice. That carried over into the Chiefs game a couple of weeks later as well, although it was a very small sample size. They also asked Tebow to throw more timing routes at the end of the previous season as well. Even throughout the latter part of last season they attempted those routes several times a game, particularly in-cuts and drag routes. Tebow REALLY struggled both in ball placement and timing in those situations.

Bronco fans are going to find out this year that Eric Decker is a really good receiver. I've already posted screen grabs in various places of Decker working himself open and Tebow failing to pull the trigger, or when he did putting the ball in difficult to catch positions. That won't be an issue with Manning.

Look, I really enjoyed last season but if you didn't see that Tebow has obvious flaws then your just fooling yourself. He struggles with his decision making (see his stats against the blitz) and he really struggles on timing routes and rhythm passing (poor mechanics and footwork). Maybe there is an offense out there that you can design to work around those issues, but really any hope you have in Tebow is that he can magically fix it. Maybe he can improve on the mechanics (although I'm not convinced), but he has a LONG ways to go. Most NFL QB's come into the league with nearly flawless mechanics (even if they are "unorthodox" like a Phyliss Rivers), but often struggle with reading defenses and putting the ball in the right position at the right time. Most NFL QB's never get particularly proficient at it (hell Kyle Orton). Tebow is starting even farther back and after two seasons he hasn't shown much meaningful improvement.

So maybe he puts it all together, but I'm not particularly convinced that he will. I'm glad it will be on someone else's dime.
the things you say here aren't exactly inaccurate, just taken to an extreme bordering on hyperbole.

Tebow is not a 10 year vet.
Tebow did not ever get 1st team reps in any of his 1st 2 training camps.
Tebow rode the bench until late in his rookie year.
Tebow rode the bench during the first 3rd of his second year.

yet none of this factors into your evaluation. instead, you declare that he's

a) not football smart ("He struggles with his decision making")
b) not skilled in the passing game ("he really struggles on timing routes and rhythm passing")
c) has poor throwing mechanics
d) has poor footwork

so therefore your write him off completely ("I'm not particularly convinced that he will")

no sane person who rooted for Tebow didn't also see that he needed to learn and improve. we always said that. but we also noted that he needs time to do so. we also see alot of other things he brings to the table that few other QBs do. it makes no sense to turn Tebow into a pocket passer. that negates everything special about him. Tebow needs to go to a team where the HC understands and embraces that. if they build an offense around him, as he gets a couple of years of seasoning to improve his passing skills, he could well find himself running a nearly unstoppable offense. but if you put him on a team where all he is going to do is hand the ball off or take 3-step and 5-step dropbacks to throw the ball, what's the point? you can find 2 dozen kids coming out of college every year who can do that.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:46 AM   #16
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I'll be surprised if Tebow is still in the league two years from now. Trading him to the Jets was the smartest thing the Broncos ever did.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:56 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedhed View Post
Ummm...what?

I was screaming for screens every game the Broncos played with Tebow at the helm.

I watched every game from start to finish, and remember 3.

It's a complete falsehood that he threw a high percentage of screens, WR or otherwise.
Well according to the ESPN split he went 24-32 from passes behind the line scrimmage. You might write them and let them know that you watched all the games and that stat is wrong.
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:05 AM   #18
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I thought Tebow was traded so that would be the end of threads of how terrible Tebow was since those were just for the benefit for all four of those Tebow fans who loved him so since that was the only reason people supposedly didn't like him?
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:12 AM   #19
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I have a hunch that Manning's completion % will be significantly higher this year than Tebow's was last year, and that the drop % will be lower. Do you feel differently?
But the run game and defense will be much poorer too. Which is why Peyton put up great numbers in the regular season but fails in the playoffs.

It is also why Tebow was so impressive. playing well the way Fox was playing is harder than what Peyton was doing...
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:19 AM   #20
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I thought Tebow was traded so that would be the end of threads of how terrible Tebow was since those were just for the benefit for all four of those Tebow fans who loved him so since that was the only reason people supposedly didn't like him?
Nobody on this thread has mentioned anything about "liking" or "disliking" Tebow. Until you did, that is. You prefer to keep it on "like" or "dislike" terms in order to discourage a discussion based solely on the merits of his game. Which is why you always bring it up. As far as Tebow threads go, hell, there are still Cutler threads. There is still the occasional Plummer thread, for chrissakes! What are you trying to hide?
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:25 AM   #21
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But the run game and defense will be much poorer too. Which is why Peyton put up great numbers in the regular season but fails in the playoffs.

It is also why Tebow was so impressive. playing well the way Fox was playing is harder than what Peyton was doing...
****ing Idiot
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:49 AM   #22
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****ing Idiot
So why don't they just run what they were running with Tebow?

Because if they did Peyton would look just as bad if not worse than Tebow. Same reason they are bringing in all the players to fit Manning's system.

I'm not talking about the option.. just the super run heavy offense only throwing on third down.

It's the same reason when Orton was putting up great offensive numbers the run game and defense were non existent.
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:52 AM   #23
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Nobody on this thread has mentioned anything about "liking" or "disliking" Tebow. Until you did, that is. You prefer to keep it on "like" or "dislike" terms in order to discourage a discussion based solely on the merits of his game. Which is why you always bring it up. As far as Tebow threads go, hell, there are still Cutler threads. There is still the occasional Plummer thread, for chrissakes! What are you trying to hide?
Or those like you who hide behind "Tebow fans" for your constant criticism of Tebow. How many ways can people say you don't think he can play and he won't be very good? I think we got it by now, thanks. Move on already.
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:54 AM   #24
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http://forums.theganggreen.com/forumdisplay.php?f=10


This is a good place to talk about Tebow.
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:58 AM   #25
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Yes Tebow's mechanics and accuracy have been his flaws. Same crap different article.
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