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Old 03-18-2012, 05:07 PM   #826
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Originally Posted by Bronco Rob View Post
Let's put Tebow aside for a minute. With Tebow aside, the Broncos were a bad team: 1-4 this year, 5-15 dating back to 2010. It was only through the magic of Tebow that the Broncos made the playoffs this year. He lifted the Broncos from a 25th league ranking in rushing through five games, to a No. 1 ranking by season's end.

It's OK to bash his passing, as long as it's remembered the Broncos averaged 190 yards rushing in his 11 starts.

Without Tebow, in other words, the Broncos are an extremely flawed team. Without Tebow, they would not have been a playoff team this year.




http://www.denverpost.com/broncosmailbag/ci_19770861
And part of the reason for the high rushing total was the HUGE number of rushing attempts McCoy called. Serious after series, he would call rushing plays on first and second down. Those increase the rushing numbers, but they make it murder on a young quarterback, with all his attempts coming with no surprise.

Sure, the Tebow-haters say "McCoy had no choice, because Tebow sucks." But that's bringing everything back to where you want to be, biased.

The point is that Tebow's stats suffered (total yards, total TD's, and probably completion percentage) because of McCoy play-calling that way. I'm willing to tip the hat to McCoy on the basis of "Hey, it worked, they won and made the postseason." But by the same token, Tebow gets that same benefit of the doubt.

He didn't have a single game where he could do some stat-padding practice. In fact, we had Broncos fans going "Oh, Lord, here comes Tebow padding his stats against prevent" when the guy was right in the middle of an improbable comeback.

Tebow is capable if much better statistical performance than this crazy, lockout season yielded. When some actual efficiency gets combined with his extreme knack for winning games, it will be scary.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:08 PM   #827
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So do you think we can win a superbowl with Tebow? You can argue with stats but you sound like Bob when you do it.


Funny how the topic changes when confronted with the facts....



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Old 03-18-2012, 05:08 PM   #828
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Actually, outside of nuts like MacGruder, most of the pro-Tebow posters have never made any such claim. We simply give the kid the credit he deserves for being a big part of the team's resurgence. It's the haters who insist on deflecting any credit from the kid. They act like we won in spite of him in fact, despite the reality that we couldn't win a damn thing before he became the starter.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:09 PM   #829
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I rewatched SB 34 yesterday (Rams vs Titans). It dawned on me that Tebow at QB would never be able to beat the kind of D the Titans had on the field that day. They rushed every hole and plugged every gap. They blitzed on almost every play. And Warner was able to keep holding them off with quick passes, spreading the ball around, and making very fast decisions. Even then, Kearse and Holmes were putting a hurt on him and the Rams' receivers were getting zero YAC. It was all Warner. Tebow, in that situation, gets dismantled. He could never win that kind of game. He just doesn't have the skills. And that's the kind of game you want to look at when you decide who your QB is going to be. The Broncos play the Steelers next season. If this team remains largely the same and both teams are healthy, we'll see...
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:09 PM   #830
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So please give us your opinion of Plummer....afterall, we made playoffs 3 consecutive seasons under him, one AFCCG appearance, and were 7-4 and in the hunt in 2006 when he was sacked as our starter....

By your logic we never should have replaced Jake despite his foibles, which probably means Mike is still in Denver, and Tebow wouldn't even be a Bronco.


I appreciate your ability to assume what my opinion of what Plummer was. Keep up the great work Horatio Caine....



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Old 03-18-2012, 05:10 PM   #831
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Default NFL trade market would be strong for Tim Tebow

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I disagree with the notion the Broncos would have trouble trading Tim Tebow if they land free-agent Peyton Manning.

True, the quarterback spots are filling up. There are way more quality backup QBs available (Vince Young, Josh Johnson, Dennis Dixon) than backup jobs. GMs and coaches might balk at adding Tebow, who plays quarterback along a path unfamiliar to NFL GMs and coaches, and also carries along the distraction of a passionate fan base.

But as we learned from Tennessee’s late pursuit of Peyton Manning, owners have the right to trump the GM and coach.

Tebow, all by himself, lifted the Broncos from a six-year malaise in 2011. Tebow singlehandedly made the Broncos relevant in 2011. Tebow singlehandedly energized the Broncos’ fan base. And Tebow all but singlehandedly lifted a bad team — NFL worst 7-24 from Nov. 1, 2009 until he got his first start in Game 6 of 2011 — to the playoffs.

What owner who struggles to sell 10,000 seats every home week wouldn’t want that? Even if it’s as a No. 3 quarterback/package player, Tebow has value.

And interest in Tebow doesn’t just have to be limited to owners. I’m just throwing this out there, but the Cleveland Browns, for instance.

I’m telling you right now, Colt McCoy can’t carry Tebow’s Bible-stuffed gym bag. Broncos coach Josh McDaniels and GM Brian Xanders worked out, and went to the board, with both Tebow and McCoy the week before the 2010 draft, remember?

They were so impressed with McCoy, the Broncos traded away three draft picks to move up and take Tebow in the first round.
more...

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Old 03-18-2012, 05:11 PM   #832
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I agree Tebow should get Elway fired
well not any ones fault Tebow has no balls but Tebow
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:15 PM   #833
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Funny how the topic changes when confronted with the facts....



No there was a lot of luck and good fortune to pull off what we did. That is a fact and you have to admit that.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:17 PM   #834
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I rewatched SB 34 yesterday (Rams vs Titans). It dawned on me that Tebow at QB would never be able to beat the kind of D the Titans had on the field that day. They rushed every hole and plugged every gap. They blitzed on almost every play. And Warner was able to keep holding them off with quick passes, spreading the ball around, and making very fast decisions. Even then, Kearse and Holmes were putting a hurt on him and the Rams' receivers were getting zero YAC. It was all Warner. Tebow, in that situation, gets dismantled. He could never win that kind of game. He just doesn't have the skills. And that's the kind of game you want to look at when you decide who your QB is going to be. The Broncos play the Steelers next season. If this team remains largely the same and both teams are healthy, we'll see...
That's funny. I watched that game too and all I could think about was how a developed Tebow would be very similar to McNair. Would be fine with me.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:18 PM   #835
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No there was a lot of luck and good fortune to pull off what we did. That is a fact and you have to admit that.


Luck and good fortune..

meet perception and reality...
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:18 PM   #836
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a developed Tebow would be very similar to McNair. Would be fine with me.
Damn straight - I could live with that too.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:18 PM   #837
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That's funny. I watched that game too and all I could think about was how a developed Tebow would be very similar to McNair. Would be fine with me.
Sure, but I want the QB who wins the game.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:18 PM   #838
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No there was a lot of luck and good fortune to pull off what we did. That is a fact and you have to admit that.
Luck is for losers. Work hard and you make your own luck.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:20 PM   #839
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Ah, so the Broncos won with Tebow because of a lot of luck, meaning either Tebow was holding the team back, which factually their record when he didn't start was 4-14, so that doesn't add up, or the roster really isn't that good, but the Broncos apparently think they are a Manning away from a Super Bowl since barely making any effort in FA until Manning is signed or not. We can't have it both ways here.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:21 PM   #840
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I disagree with the notion the Broncos would have trouble trading Tim Tebow if they land free-agent Peyton Manning.
They might not have a problem trading him, but getting any value out him is another subject.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:21 PM   #841
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Then we agree...TEAM game.

Now, if your frustrated with people claiming Tebow won anything by himself, I can understand. What I don't understand is the reverse idea that Miller or McGahee or Elway won anything by themselves. It's a silly argument.
I can only speak for myself....I've included Tim in giving credit for the wins. Now I will admit I have given him more than his share of blame for the losses, but that had more to do with defending his team mates basically being exclusively blamed for the losses or Tim's struggles....and it is rather funny watching the nuthuggers scramble to their laminated Tim Tebow excuse sheets when he was criticized
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:22 PM   #842
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Ah, so the Broncos won with Tebow because of a lot of luck, meaning either Tebow was holding the team back, which factually their record when he didn't start was 4-14, so that doesn't add up, or the roster really isn't that good, but the Broncos apparently think they are a Manning away from a Super Bowl since barely making any effort in FA until Manning is signed or not. We can't have it both ways here.
Err...I'm pretty sure the EFX fans who hate Tebow and are hoping with every fiber of their being that we sign Manning would disagree.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:23 PM   #843
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I can only speak for myself....I've included Tim in giving credit for the wins. Now I will admit I have given him more than his share of blame for the losses, but that had more to do with defending his team mates basically being exclusively blamed for the losses or Tim's struggles....and it is rather funny watching the nuthuggers scramble to their laminated Tim Tebow excuse sheets when he was criticized
it's funny,when we won it was all TT,when we lost it was everyone but TT.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:27 PM   #844
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They might not have a problem trading him, but getting any value out him is another subject.
for sure... I hope we keep him. But you are right... if we trade him I am sure we throw him away. It's the FO's MO.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:27 PM   #845
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Sure, but I want the QB who wins the game.
What a game. McNair was faster than I remembered him. Wouldn't it be funny if the Titans grabbed Manning, he took them to the bowl and beat the Rams coached by Fisher. That would be unbelievable. I was thinking about that too.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:29 PM   #846
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What a game. McNair was faster than I remembered him. Wouldn't it be funny if the Titans grabbed Manning, he took them to the bowl and beat the Rams coached by Fisher. That would be unbelievable. I was thinking about that too.
Yep. I thought of that too. Warner definitely deserved that MVP. Jevon Kearse was scary back in the day.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:30 PM   #847
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The lucky breaks, pick 6's, ST TD's and Tebow gimmick wore off.
And the playoff game against one of the best DCs in the league?
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:31 PM   #848
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And the playoff game against one of the best DCs in the league?
Who is still wondering why Troy bit on the run.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:36 PM   #849
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Luck is for losers. Work hard and you make your own luck.



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Old 03-18-2012, 05:40 PM   #850
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Who is still wondering why Troy bit on the run.



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